Time is an illusion

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Eastern faiths have the concept of Maya, which is that everything we know is really an illusion. Christianity doesn't have that.

That would contradict Christianity because it would contradict the Incarnation. But whether or not time as a creature exists wouldn't affect anything imo.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

@Sketcher
In fact, the more I think about it, the more I believe that I can make a case for time not existing or at least superceded by the eternity of God.

That would contradict Christianity because it would contradict the Incarnation. But whether or not time as a creature exists wouldn't affect anything imo.

 

[TheWhat?]

so... am curious .... IF true how does that impact your current beliefs in regard to formation of the universe (regardless what that is)?

I think eternalism implies that God isn't really Creator, since all things are eternally existent.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

I think eternalism implies that God isn't really Creator, since all things are eternally existent.

Or all things are God or emanations of God (heterodox, I know, but doesn't do away with God completely. And in some nonGnostic sense, all things are emanations of God and are eternal)

 

[TheWhat?]

Or all things are God or emanations of God (heterodox, I know, but doesn't do away with God completely. And in some nonGnostic sense, all things are emanations of God and are eternal)

... if that's what an emanation is. It's a curious idea.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Yes its a huge problem. I prefer to think I have some say in things.

But you do; things occur as result of your deliberations and choices that wouldn't occur if you didn't exist. It's just that your deliberations and choices are the result of prior events you're largely unaware of.

You evaluate the options, weigh up the consequences, and make your choices. Subjectively they're free choices - you don't know what the outcome will be until you've decided it; objectively, they're the inevitable result of your genetics, development, life experiences, and state of mind at the time (also a result of all that stuff). The importance or weighting you give to various aspects of your deliberations depend on your mood, physiological state, what's on your mind at the time, your beliefs, your preferences, etc. - all themselves dependent on prior events.

You are a unique person, genetically, developmentally, and experientially... if the outcomes of those deliberations were not the result of all those factors, they wouldn't be your choices, would they?

And if we were to allow for some random 'noise' in all of that, the results would be proportionally less your choices, wouldn't they?

 

[Sketcher]

@Sketcher
In fact, the more I think about it, the more I believe that I can make a case for time not existing or at least superceded by the eternity of God.

I would say that God exists outside of time, and is not confined by time, though we are. And In Heaven, it's possible that we won't be anymore.

 

[eleos1954]

I think eternalism implies that God isn't really Creator, since all things are eternally existent.

Eternilsim is something different

Eternalism (philosophy of time), the philosophical theory which takes the view that all points in time are equally "real", as

This is talking about time being an illusion

The meaning of illusion is something that looks or seems different from what it is : something that is false or not real but that seems to be true or real.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

I would say that God exists outside of time, and is not confined by time, though we are. And In Heaven, it's possible that we won't be anymore.

Agreed except to say that I believe it isn't only possible but what Scripture says based upon Christ's own dwelling in the eternity of the Father together with the Spirit as well as the explicit promise of eternal life

 

[public hermit]

So there is this theory/concept that time is an illusion .... have been reading about it a bit. (you can google it)

so... am curious .... IF true how does that impact your current beliefs in regard to formation of the universe (regardless what that is)?

I'm not saying true or false .... I'm putting forward IF true.

What are your thoughts about it?

I pretty much lean towards a B theory of time. The present is real and everything else is understood in relation to now. Past and future are ultimately illusory if we try to treat them as real (presentism).

Time (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

... if that's what an emanation is. It's a curious idea.

All things participate in the energies of God insomuch as they exist (Exodus 3:14), ie panENtheism. Acts 17:28 / Rom 11:36. My view.
VS
All things participate in God's essence, ie pantheism. This is clearly heterodox.

 

[eleos1954]

I would say that God exists outside of time, and is not confined by time, though we are. And In Heaven, it's possible that we won't be anymore.

well ... yes ....

eternal is
lasting or existing forever; without end or beginning.

difficult to wrap our minds around ... even though ... in creation God created time (for mankind) to use how? Now don't want to debate what day He created time .... but .... according to Genesis He did create it and with a purpose(s).

So here's where my thinking goes .... that is I ponder. Applying time as we do .... is it proper and fitting to apply that to the universe? or is it an illusion when applied to the universe and time don't really exist.

Rather mind boggling LOL

 

[durangodawood]

But you do; things occur as result of your deliberations and choices that wouldn't occur if you didn't exist. It's just that your deliberations and choices are the result of prior events you're largely unaware of.

You evaluate the options, weigh up the consequences, and make your choices. Subjectively they're free choices - you don't know what the outcome will be until you've decided it; objectively, they're the inevitable result of your genetics, development, life experiences, and state of mind at the time (also a result of all that stuff). The importance or weighting you give to various aspects of your deliberations depend on your mood, physiological state, what's on your mind at the time, your beliefs, your preferences, etc. - all themselves dependent on prior events.

You are a unique person, genetically, developmentally, and experientially... if the outcomes of those deliberations were not the result of all those factors, they wouldn't be your choices, would they?

And if we were to allow for some random 'noise' in all of that, the results would be proportionally less your choices, wouldn't they?

It not enough to (subjectively) feel like I am an agent capable of introducing new uncaused causes that emerge from my will alone. I want to actually do it.

For sure randomness doesnt satisfy. There's no "me" in that.

It all sounds a bit egoistic. But I think most of us want to belief we can be a genuine origin of events occasionally, even if we'd like the psychic relief that determinism provide.

 

[Halbhh]

So there is this theory/concept that time is an illusion .... have been reading about it a bit. (you can google it)

so... am curious .... IF true how does that impact your current beliefs in regard to formation of the universe (regardless what that is)?

I'm not saying true or false .... I'm putting forward IF true.

What are your thoughts about it?

Heh, I wouldn't mind for the illusion then of my body being older seeming/different than it was 20 years ago to be dissipated.


But ultimately I'm going to trust the Alpha and Omega to take care of that.

 

[TheWhat?]

Eternilsim is something different

Eternalism (philosophy of time), the philosophical theory which takes the view that all points in time are equally "real", as

This is talking about time being an illusion

The meaning of illusion is something that looks or seems different from what it is : something that is false or not real but that seems to be true or real.

Right, well, what do you mean by "time?"

To the eternalist, a presentist may think time is an illusion because she doesn't believe time is a traversible dimension, because other times are non-real.

To the presentist, an eternalist may think time is an illusion because she doesn't believe change is truly happening, time is traversible, because all times are equally real.

 

[eleos1954]

I pretty much lean towards a B theory of time. The present is real and everything else is understood in relation to now. Past and future are ultimately illusory if we try to treat them as real (presentism).

Time (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

interesting ;o)

 

[Sketcher]

well ... yes ....

eternal is
lasting or existing forever; without end or beginning.

difficult to wrap our minds around ... even though ... in creation God created time (for mankind) to use how? Now don't want to debate what day He created time .... but .... according to Genesis He did create it and with a purpose(s).

So here's where my thinking goes .... that is I ponder. Applying time as we do .... is it proper and fitting to apply that to the universe? or is it an illusion when applied to the universe and time don't really exist.

Rather mind boggling LOL

We see the effects of time - growth, decay, etc. I would liken time to a current that we're all caught up in, at least in this life.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Good question. Doesn't Scripture only address our bit of the universe?

well ... yes ....

eternal is
lasting or existing forever; without end or beginning.

difficult to wrap our minds around ... even though ... in creation God created time (for mankind) to use how? Now don't want to debate what day He created time .... but .... according to Genesis He did create it and with a purpose(s).

So here's where my thinking goes .... that is I ponder. Applying time as we do .... is it proper and fitting to apply that to the universe? or is it an illusion when applied to the universe and time don't really exist.

Rather mind boggling LOL

 

[lsume]

So there is this theory/concept that time is an illusion .... have been reading about it a bit. (you can google it)

so... am curious .... IF true how does that impact your current beliefs in regard to formation of the universe (regardless what that is)?

I'm not saying true or false .... I'm putting forward IF true.

What are your thoughts about it?

I would say that time is extremely relative.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

I would say that time is extremely relative.

True but relative isn't the same as illusionary. Is it?