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Time for a Lewis update!

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Didaskomenos

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I periodically present quotes from the theologian C.S. Lewis, partly because he is championed by evangelicals and partly because he said things much better and thought things through so much better than I. Here, for your reading pleasure, is a passage from Reflections on the Psalms.

 

TwinCrier

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Vance said:
Odd how no YEC's responded to our Mr. Lewis' idea.
Respond to what. He clearly admits right off he's not a fundamentalist Christian. All I know about this man is he wrote some children's books with witchcraft and some novels. I think I read that he said he was visited by ghosts too.
 
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Vance

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TwinCrier said:
Respond to what. He clearly admits right off he's not a fundamentalist Christian. All I know about this man is he wrote some children's books with witchcraft and some novels. I think I read that he said he was visited by ghosts too.

But what is your response to what he is saying here? Which points do you not agree with, and why?

And, he says he is "suspected" of being a fundamentalist.
 
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California Tim

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I agree with this completely. In fact it is why the TE argument is suspect, being based almost entirely on intellect and treated as a "subject" of (or more precisely "subject to") science. So while I agree with some of what CS Lewis says and disagree with other things, on this issue we happen to agree. The only objections I've heard to YEC so far have been intellectual and extra-Biblical - that being it doesn't seem to add up to the current prevailing interpretation of the evidence.
 
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Vance

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Tim, you keep ignoring all of my arguments that are NOT extra-biblical, and not at all based on interpretation of scientific evidence. I know that this does not fit your model of the bases for TE beliefs, but it is not proper to use words like "only" or even "almost entirely".

But you DON'T really agree with him even on the point you cite, because you can see that from what he says earlier what he really MEANS by that statement. He STILL will completely accept extra-biblical information to assist in proper exegesis, and will USE the evidence to help understand things, he just won't let it be the sole factor, the way minimalists or strict naturalists do.

And TE's agree with that entirely. We are NOT strict naturalists or minimalists, no matter how much YEC's want to paint us as such to ease their arguments along. We, just as Lewis does, just as St. Augustine does, and most of the great theologians of Christian history do, use our minds and information gathered from textual analysis, source analysis, history and culture, theological considerations, etc, and yes, even the current state of knowledge about the natural world ALL TOGETHER to come to a proper exegesis.
 
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shernren

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Personally, I admire CS Lewis. But he is not the Word of God, the Bible is; and there have been other slip-ups before, most notably the salvation of Emeth in The Final Battle. I don't think I will take non-literalness seriously, not now.

And can someone please label me? XD What are fundamentalists? And do they play loud music in church? wakaka.
 
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notto

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California Tim said:
The only objections I've heard to YEC so far have been intellectual and extra-Biblical - that being it doesn't seem to add up to the current prevailing interpretation of the evidence.

I would add to that that the explainations they give for physical evidence often fail to actually explain the evidence that is there regardless of how it is interpreted by current prevailing mainstream science..

The explanation that a YEC scientists would give for the formation of the Grand Canyon does not match the physical evidence we find there. This isn't a matter of current interpretation of the evidence. Their notions often don't address the evidence. Their 'interpretation' is to deny or ignore vast amounts and only include what they can try to explain while ignoring the rest.

Regardless of current interpretation by mainstream science, their explanations fail because of their own internal lack of detail and inconsistencies.

For example, the flood was both violent and gentle, deep and shallow, sustaining completely or periodically fluctuating to uncover land intermediate during the flood. This is not a consistent model and show the ad-hoc nature of their ideas. When explaining one piece of evidence, the flood has one set of characteristics. When that model fails to explain another piece of evidence, they will use a flood with completely different (and contradictory) characteristics to explain it.
 
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seebs

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TwinCrier said:
Respond to what. He clearly admits right off he's not a fundamentalist Christian. All I know about this man is he wrote some children's books with witchcraft and some novels. I think I read that he said he was visited by ghosts too.

Then you're missing one of the greatest theologians of the 20th century.
 
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California Tim

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Like this evidence?

EVIDENCE FOR DEEP WATER DEPOSITION OF THE TAPEATS SANDSTONE, GRAND CANYON, ARIZONA, U.S.A.

Chadwick, A. and Kennedy, E.

The Tapeats Sandstone forms the basal Cambrian deposit of the Tonto Platform and generally has been interpreted as a shallow marine deposit. In the Grand Canyon, the sandstone was deposited on a low relief Precambrian surface broken by scattered remnant cliffs of Shinumo Quartzite and isolated granitic hills. Paleoslope measurements, sedimentological features and trace element distributions have been documented and analyzed from 91 Mile Canyon and Red Canyon in the Grand Canyon. Debris flows containing Shinumo clasts with a Tapeats sand matrix were catastrophically eroded and transported along the Precambrian surface topography from the cliff-faces basinward. These submarine flows were deposited on a surface with over 140m of vertical relief. Sedimentary structures and contacts indicate that even the shallowest material was deposited in excess of 200m below storm wave base. Th/U ratios from the breccia matrix and primary glauconite in the Tapeats Sandstones at both localities indicate sediment deposition in a reducing/low oxygen environment. Such conditions are highly unlikely in a high-energy, near shore facies. A reevaluation of sedimentary structures used to identify the Tapeats Sandstone as a shallow water marine facies reveals these features to be consistent with the deep water model. To explain the features documented in this research, we propose that the Tapeats Sandstone was deposited as a deep-water, submarine fan complex.*

*The model was revised for the presentation of the paper at the IAS Congress in Alicante: We proposed that the Tapeats Sandstone was deposited when a continental shelf collapsed, generating high energy movement of sediments down slope, blanketing the Precambrian surface.

Published in: 15th International Sedimentological Congress, Alicante, p. 247-248, 1998. Source
 
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