Thunder Lauriston lecture on "Why Sunday worship cannot be the Mark of the Beast"

[ozso]

Right. Somehow you aren't nearly as friendly as you used to be. The ad hominem attacks are coming out.

I was trying to come up with something nicer than "liar" (your word).

 

[Gary K]

Yeah, that site is really friendly to Ellen White and SDAs. You didn't look around the site did you?

Sorru about that. I'm the one who didn't look around the site. I just assumed it was an anemy od Ellen Ehire and SDAs.

 

[ozso]

Yeah, that site is really friendly to Ellen White and SDAs. You didn't look around the site did you?

Of course I did, that's why I suggested seeking a corroborating source.

 

[Gary K]

I was trying to come up with something nicer than "liar" (your word).

I apologize for that. I've been tempted to use that word a lot. As I said I'm new to righteousness by faith and I still screw up occasionally although I am far more forgiving than I used to be.

 

[Gary K]

Of course I did, that's why I suggested seeking a corroborating source.

I have books and articles written by SDA pioneers and in them them are many stories and conversations that happened during that time.

But to satisfy your concerns I will look for confirmation of the data.

 

[trophy33]

The God never lost track of the days of the week or their order as He announced the 10 commandments on Sinai. Or do you think God is so divorced from what is happening here on earth that He forgot yhe order of the days of the week? And the Jews have kept extremely accurate records since Sinai.

I am not sure what is your point. That the whole world must live according to the calendar of Jews?

Where does the Scripture say this?

 

[Leaf473]

If you read there right now you will find non SDAs questioning SDA theology and as you know when someone complains to a moderator offensive posts are deleted, which action I disagree with and so do most SDAs. The insults and behavior have to be really egregious for anyone to complain. The reason I want the thread there is to eliminate the egregious behavior.

Simply because people are doing it doesn't mean they will not eventually end up with a staff action on their record. Just like you might be able to speed in a certain area for years and then one day you get a ticket

I'd rather not have a staff action on my record

 

[Leaf473]

Order, as the Jews had/have no name the for days of the week. Your humorous comment on Sunday doesn't let you off the hook though as God doesn't change to go along with human ideas.

Well, there is the human idea of the international date line, which determines where the Seventh-Day starts for those who acknowledge it.

 

[Gary K]

Of course I did, that's why I suggested seeking a corroborating source.

Here you go. Just what you asked for.

Lord's Day Alliance - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Gary K]

I am not sure what is your point. That the whole world must live according to the calendar of Jews?

Where does the Scripture say this?

OK. No evidence is good enough for you so we'll just agree to disagree.

 

[Leaf473]

I thought that all calendars are man's idea.

They probably are.

Based on what I found in the past:
The seven day week seems to come from ancient Mesopotamia.
The rest of the world was unaware of it until Western Civilization spread.

 

[trophy33]

OK. No evidence is good enough for you so we'll just agree to disagree.

What evidence? The Bible just says "the seventh day", the rest is your ideas, not evidence.

Whether the seventh day is named Sunday or Saturday should not be relevant to any biblical commandment.

 

[Gary K]

Well, there is the human idea of the international date line, which determines where the Seventh-Day starts for those who acknowledge it.

Yeah and it does the same for Sunday keepers also. So what's your point?

 

[Leaf473]

Yeah and it does the same for Sunday keepers also. So what's your point?

My point is that once you move out of the Holy land, it becomes a real question of when the seventh day starts.

You can use the human idea of the international date line.

But from what I've read of those who believe that Sunday worship is the mark of the beast, the idea is that if you acknowledge the authority of the human government in your area to make the first day of the week a required day of rest, then you are taking the mark of the beast.

 

[Gary K]

What evidence? The Bible just says "the seventh day", the rest is your idea, not evidence.

Whether the seventh day is named Sunday or Saturday should not be relevant to any biblical commandment.

It isn't. I added the accuracy of Jewish records as an addendum. That God knows what days are what in the weekly order is more than good enough for me.

 

[trophy33]

That God knows what days are what in the weekly order is more than good enough for me.

But such sentences are saying nothing practical or useful.

 

[Gary K]

My point is that once you move out of the Holy land, it becomes a real question of when the seventh day starts.

You can use the human idea of the international date line.

But from what I've read of those who believe that Sunday worship is the mark of the beast, the idea is that if you acknowledge the authority of the human government in your area to make the first day of the week a required day of rest, then you are taking the mark of the beast.

And your point? The date line has existed ever since world travel began as if you travel in one direction around the world several times you would then be out of sync with the rest of the world. It's not a moral issue and as such can have nothing to do with the mark of the beast

 

[Leaf473]

Yeah and it does the same for Sunday keepers also. So what's your point?

Most Sunday keepers defer to the authority of the Church on the matter.

My point is that it's not in the scriptures.

Arguably, it's the same sunset moving around the Earth. For me, God not telling us how to deal with this situation is further evidence that he never intended Seventh-Day observance to be a worldwide thing. It was intended for ancient Israel/Jews.

 

[Leaf473]

And your point? The date line has existed ever since world travel began as if you travel in one direction around the world several times you would then be out of sync with the rest of the world. It's not a moral issue and as such can have nothing to do with the mark of the beast

I think I might have answered one of your posts twice

If it is a moral issue to work six days and then rest on the 7th, then it is a moral issue to know when those six work days and the seventh rest day are.

If those things are not moral issues, then cool!

So... Do you believe Sunday worship is the mark of the beast? Do you think Sunday rest is the mark of the beast?

 

[Leaf473]

Just as a follow-up, I asked a person who considers themself to be a devout seventh day observer what to do on the North shore of Alaska, where the sun may not set for months at a time.

Their answer was to just pick a seventh day.

I thought that was really odd. It's critical in parts of the world that have a sunset every 24 hours. But where it doesn't, just pick something.