Thunder Lauriston lecture on "Why Sunday worship cannot be the Mark of the Beast"

trophy33 · Jun 17, 2023

HIM said:
And Whether one is an SDA or not is not relevant.

It is, because you try to find your SDA views in the Bible and pick verses that allow it and refuse/ignore verses that do not.

SDA has an extra-biblical source of doctrine - Ellen White. So you are biased, when reading the Bible, you must make it compatible with Ellen White.

The key to understand why you accept one Bible verse and not some other is... tadadadaaa!... Ellen White.

HIM · Jun 17, 2023

myst33 said:
It is, because you try to find your SDA views in the Bible and pick verses that allow it and refuse/ignore verses that do not.

SDA has an extra-biblical source of doctrine - Ellen White. So you are biased, when reading the Bible, you must make it compatible with Ellen White.

The key to understand why you accept one Bible verse and not some other is... tadadadaaa!... Ellen White.

Subjective conjecture and I am an not sda.

BNR32FAN · Jun 17, 2023

HIM said:
Murder? God would not murder. Can't kill what is dead.

You’re confusing spiritual death with physical death. Is God forbidding man to commit spiritual death in Exodus 20 or is He referring to physical death? Did Cain kill Able spiritually or physically?

SabbathBlessings · Jun 17, 2023

BNR32FAN said:
Is man allowed to kill anyone he wants? Is God allowed to?

There is a difference between killing and murder. I don’t have time to go into the details now, but may a little later.

One could use this argument with Jesus why they profaned His holy Sabbath and break one of His commandment- because God killed sinners, but He told us ahead of time He would and gave man another path to follow that offers eternal life. I don’t think its a good argument to start applying what God does as a reason to not keep His commandments, but we have free will to test any theory we want.

HIM · Jun 17, 2023

BNR32FAN said:
You’re confusing spiritual death with physical death. Is God forbidding man to commit spiritual death in Exodus 20 or is He referring to physical death? Did Cain kill Able spiritually or physically?

"Let the dead bury the dead"

BNR32FAN · Jun 17, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
You have have to discuss the health laws with the Lord -doesn’t appear He changed His mind.

Isaiah 66:17 “Those who consecrate and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following one who is among those who eat the flesh of pigs,rats and other unclean things—they will meet their end together with the one they follow,” declares the Lord.

Written before the New Covenant was revealed.

“If one of the unbelievers invites you and you want to go, eat anything that is set before you without asking questions for conscience’ sake. But if anyone says to you, “This is meat sacrificed to idols,” do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for conscience’ sake; I mean not your own conscience, but the other man’s; for why is my freedom judged by another’s conscience? If I partake with thankfulness, why am I slandered concerning that for which I give thanks?”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭10‬:‭27‬-‭30‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

This was written after the New Covenant was revealed.

BNR32FAN · Jun 17, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
There is a difference between killing and murder. I don’t have time to go into the details now, but may a little later.

The difference is extremely simple murder is the unlawful killing of a human being, killing is not always considered to be unlawful.

BNR32FAN · Jun 17, 2023

HIM said:
As if in elementary playground, schoolyard nonsense.

"Let the dead bury the dead"

Yeah you didn’t answer either of my questions.

SabbathBlessings · Jun 17, 2023

BNR32FAN said:
Written before the New Covenant was revealed.

“If one of the unbelievers invites you and you want to go, eat anything that is set before you without asking questions for conscience’ sake. But if anyone says to you, “This is meat sacrificed to idols,” do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for conscience’ sake; I mean not your own conscience, but the other man’s; for why is my freedom judged by another’s conscience? If I partake with thankfulness, why am I slandered concerning that for which I give thanks?”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭10‬:‭27‬-‭30‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

This was written after the New Covenant was revealed.

This is a prophecy about the Final Judgement. All the scripture that has been misunderstood on what God deems clean to eat versus unclean is settled….God never changed His mind about foods He deems an abomination to eat.

Isaiah 66:15 For behold, the Lord will come with fire
And with His chariots, like a whirlwind,
To render His anger with fury,
And His rebuke with flames of fire.
16 For by fire and by His sword
The Lord will judge all flesh;
And the slain of the Lord shall be many.
17 “Those who sanctify themselves and purify themselves,
To go to the gardens
After an idol in the midst,
Eating swine’s flesh and the abomination and the mouse,
Shall be consumed together,” says the Lord.

HIM · Jun 17, 2023

BNR32FAN said:
Yeah you didn’t answer either of my questions.

I apologize for the part of the post that said, “As if in elementary playground, schoolyard nonsense.” That Was actually part of another post I chose not to post and thought I erased it all but apparently didn’t. Though I don’t agree with you here, I don’t think or feel that way about you or your mannerism. I am sorry

BNR32FAN · Jun 19, 2023

HIM said:
I apologize for the part of the post that said, “As if in elementary playground, schoolyard nonsense.” That Was actually part of another post I chose not to post and thought I erased it all but apparently didn’t. Though I don’t agree with you here, I don’t think or feel that way about you or your mannerism. I am sorry

Thank you, I apologize for the late reply I was a bit busy this weekend. Yes I saw that you did quickly edit the post after I replied to it. I appreciate your apology and I’ve had the same thing happen to me before. Sometimes it saves a post that you started and when you erase it then post something completely different it ends up posting what you previously erased with the new post. Just a tip, if you click the “delete draft” button it stops that from happening. So you probably did erase it but the website automatically saves a draft every so often so if you don’t hit delete draft it will include what it saved in your next post.

BNR32FAN · Jun 19, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
This is a prophecy about the Final Judgement. All the scripture that has been misunderstood on what God deems clean to eat versus unclean is settled….God never changed His mind about foods He deems an abomination to eat.

Isaiah 66:15 For behold, the Lord will come with fire
And with His chariots, like a whirlwind,
To render His anger with fury,
And His rebuke with flames of fire.
16 For by fire and by His sword
The Lord will judge all flesh;
And the slain of the Lord shall be many.
17 “Those who sanctify themselves and purify themselves,
To go to the gardens
After an idol in the midst,
Eating swine’s flesh and the abomination and the mouse,
Shall be consumed together,” says the Lord.

If that’s your official position I think it’s important that you explain why Paul told the Corinthians that they could eat anything placed before them otherwise you’re not giving a comprehensive answer to my question. Surely you would agree that our interpretation must line up with all scripture, not just bits & pieces? Your interpretation is contradictory to what Paul said in this verse.

Leaf473 · Jun 19, 2023

BNR32FAN said:
If that’s your official position I think it’s important that you explain why Paul told the Corinthians that they could eat anything placed before them otherwise you’re not giving a comprehensive answer to my question. Surely you would agree that our interpretation must line up with all scripture, not just bits & pieces? Your interpretation is contradictory to what Paul said in this verse.

When I've asked about this in the past, Acts 14 was brought up:

The priest of Jupiter, whose temple was in front of their city, brought oxen and garlands to the gates, and would have made a sacrifice along with the multitudes.

The reasoning is that since the pagan priest was going to sacrifice oxen in this case, and oxen are clean animals, then the pagan priests only sacrificed clean animals. They also followed the proper handling instructions so that the meat would not become unclean, I think would have to be part of it.

It doesn't seem like a solid line of reasoning to me.

Deuteronomy 15
Only you shall not eat its blood. You shall pour it out on the ground like water.

SabbathBlessings · Jun 19, 2023

BNR32FAN said:
If that’s your official position I think it’s important that you explain why Paul told the Corinthians that they could eat anything placed before them otherwise you’re not giving a comprehensive answer to my question. Surely you would agree that our interpretation must line up with all scripture, not just bits & pieces? Your interpretation is contradictory to what Paul said in this verse.

Paul is not contradicting Christ. Isaiah 66:17 this is the final say it's Judgement so it's not "bits and pieces" it is consistent with what God deems an abomination to eat in very detailed spelled out language in Lev 11. Our bodies have not changed. The verse in reference does not say eating "unclean foods" this passage is about being a good witness and do not add stumbling blocks, it is never a good witness to do something God deems "an abomination". The apostles knew what was clean versus unclean Acts 10:14, this passage is not saying one can disobey God. We are told our bodies are a temple to the Holy Spirit and we need to keep them clean, which includes eating foods that are not only displeasing to God but 'an abomination' (not my words) does not seem like a good idea imho.

BNR32FAN · Jun 19, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
Paul is not contradicting Christ. Isaiah 66:17 this is the final say it's Judgement so it's not "bits and pieces" it is consistent with what God deems an abomination to eat in very detailed spelled out language in Lev 11. Our bodies have not changed. The verse in reference does not say eating "unclean foods" this passage is about being a good witness and do not add stumbling blocks, it is never a good witness to do something God deems "an abomination". The apostles knew what was clean versus unclean Acts 10:14, this passage is not saying one can disobey God. We are told our bodies are a temple to the Holy Spirit and we need to keep them clean, which includes eating foods that are not only displeasing to God but 'an abomination' (not my words) does not seem like a good idea imho.

Ok that said nothing but your opinion on the matter which contradicts what Paul actually wrote.

SabbathBlessings · Jun 19, 2023

BNR32FAN said:
Ok that said nothing but your opinion on the matter which contradicts what Paul actually wrote.

It's not my opinion Paul never once said unclean foods can be eaten. Isaiah 66:17 is not my opinion, but if you do not want to head the warning, we are given free will. I trust God means what He says and tells us a head of time because He loves us. He created our bodies and knows what's best for us. There are plenty of satisfying clean foods God gave us, to me if there is even some doubt not worth it.

BNR32FAN · Jun 19, 2023

Leaf473 said:
When I've asked about this in the past, Acts 14 was brought up:

The priest of Jupiter, whose temple was in front of their city, brought oxen and garlands to the gates, and would have made a sacrifice along with the multitudes.

The reasoning is that since the pagan priest was going to sacrifice oxen in this case, and oxen are clean animals, then the pagan priests only sacrificed clean animals. They also followed the proper handling instructions so that the meat would not become unclean, I think would have to be part of it.

It doesn't seem like a solid line of reasoning to me.

Deuteronomy 15
Only you shall not eat its blood. You shall pour it out on the ground like water.

The Gentiles ate pig as well. So evidently they didn’t regard them as being unclean.

“Now there was a herd of many swine feeding at a distance from them. The demons began to entreat Him, saying, “If You are going to cast us out, send us into the herd of swine.” And He said to them, “Go!” And they came out and went into the swine, and the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the sea and perished in the waters. The herdsmen ran away, and went to the city and reported everything, including what had happened to the demoniacs. And behold, the whole city came out to meet Jesus; and when they saw Him, they implored Him to leave their region.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭8‬:‭30‬-‭34‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

BNR32FAN · Jun 19, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
It's not my opinion Paul never once said unclean foods can be eaten. Isaiah 66:17 is not my opinion, but if you do not want to head the warning, we are given free will. I trust God means what He says and tells us a head of time because He loves us. He created our bodies and knows what's best for us. There are plenty of satisfying clean foods God gave us, to me if there is even some doubt not worth it.

He said eat whatever is placed before you without question. Gentiles ate pig all the time.

SabbathBlessings · Jun 19, 2023

BNR32FAN said:
He said eat whatever is placed before you without question. Gentiles ate pig all the time.

He did not say to eat unclean foods. Foods that were sacrificed to idols were clean foods. I think its smarter to work backwards- If Isaiah 66:17 is the final result, that means no other scripture can mean something else. God doesn't say foods are unclean, than clean and then unclean again. We do not serve a God of confusion.

BNR32FAN · Jun 19, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
He did not say to eat unclean foods. Foods that were sacrificed to idols were clean foods. I think its smarter to work backwards- If Isaiah 66:17 is the final result, that means no other scripture can mean something else. God doesn't say foods are unclean, than clean and then unclean again. We do not serve a God of confusion.

But He did change the dietary laws 3 times before the New Covenant. We’ve already talked about that.

Thunder Lauriston lecture on "Why Sunday worship cannot be the Mark of the Beast"

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