Three different types in prison

[Apologetic_Warrior]

God does not put people in prison.

Umm uhh where did I make that claim? I see the assumption behind your statement though.

People go to prison because of the bad choices they made. Or in some cases other people made bad choices and sent an innocent to prison.

You deny the conditioning of choices? That our choices have nothing to do with where we were born, the time we were born, the people around us and social environment we grew up with, not to mention the choices of others? Our choices are not conditioned or influenced in any way shape or form? Sinners are not influenced by a sinful nature? I doubt the average kid thinks to himself "I wanna go to prison when I grow up", and I doubt many in prison, are there because they chose to be there. Yes, their choices, however many are involved, led to their arrest and imprisonment, but to say people go to prison because of bad choices they made, is overly simplistic.

Prisoners all of the time are turning there lives over to Christ while in prison because another prisoner witnessed to them. There are many people who come from outside prison and have prison ministries, but that is for discipleship, not evangelism. Evangelism must be done by the prisoners themselves.

I wouldn't know much about it personally to be honest with ya.

 

[Doug Melven]

Yes, their choices, however many are involved, led to their arrest and imprisonment, but to say people go to prison because of bad choices they made, is overly simplistic.

It may be overly simplistic, but it is the truth.,
Sometimes it is a single choice (rarely), most often it is a series of choices (It was in my case).
Nobody plans to go to prison. They think they won't get caught (I thought nobody knew what I was doing, right up till the day the police came to my door).

I wouldn't know much about it personally to be honest with ya.

I did almost 5 years.

People who come in from outside, are escorted by guards to and from wherever they will go to minister. No chances to talk to inmates on the way.
Inmates have to sign up to go to these ministries. So there is a level of commitment already.
At least that is how it works in Michigan prisons.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

I did almost 5 years.

Sounds serious...any time in prison is serious, but I mean the amount of time, considering how many are released before the completion of their sentence for good behavior, when a board is convinced rehabilitation has taken place. I wouldn't last a week in the state pen, I'm not hard and they would smell it a mile away.

People who come in from outside, are escorted by guards to and from wherever they will go to minister. No chances to talk to inmates on the way. Inmates have to sign up to go to these ministries. So there is a level of commitment already. At least that is how it works in Michigan prisons.

It's amazing anybody is reached with the Gospel in prison no? I have respect for prison ministries, that's devotion and hard work with few pats on the back.

 

[Par5]

I did hear parents say they had never spanked their kids when they visited. It is important that a person associate bad behavior with pain so they can learn that bad behavior results in bad consequences.

If I saw an adult behaving badly and inflicted pain on that person to make them realise, as you have stated, that bad behaviour results in bad consequences for them, I have no doubt I would be on an assault charge. If it is punishable in law to strike an adult, why would you think it is ok to strike a child. There are many ways to discipline a child and instruct them how to behave without resorting to violence. If you believe inflicting pain is the answer, you need to greatly improve your parenting skills.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

There are many ways to discipline a child and instruct them how to behave without resorting to violence. If you believe inflicting pain is the answer, you need to greatly improve your parenting skills.

Yes, they have totally left what the Bible recommends.

And third grade teachers such as my wife suffer the consequences.

And getting back to the thread and more and more end up in prison.

M-Bob

 

[Par5]

Yes, they have totally left what the Bible recommends.

And third grade teachers such as my wife suffer the consequences.

And getting back to the thread and more and more end up in prison.

M-Bob

What exactly does the bible recommend?

 

[Mountainmanbob]

What exactly does the bible recommend?

Spare the rod spoil the child.

Honor your mother and your father.

Romans 13.

M-Bob

 

[Par5]

Spare the rod spoil the child.

Honor your mother and your father.

Romans 13.

M-Bob

Not all bible scholars or Christians take "spare the rod and spoil the child" literally.
I agree with the command to honour your mother and father, although that seems to be at odds with what Jesus is recorded as having said. "I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, Whoever comes to me and does not hate their father and mother, and wife and children, and brothers and sisters, yes, and even life itself, can't be my disciple."
It is very easy to lay all the blame at the door of young people who go off the rails, but in many cases they come from a home where parents just don't care and spend no time teaching their children values that will help them grow into good decent adults. The kids have no respect for their parents because the parents have done nothing to earn that respect.
Before she retired, my wife worked helping disadvantaged teenagers. They had a multitude of problems. Drug and alcohol abuse, unwanted pregnancies, victims of sexual abuse and violence, petty crime. My wife said that the majority of these young people came from homes where the parents just did not take the time to bring their children up properly and that did not mean inflicting pain. Many of them were already victims of violence in the home.
Say what you will, but you can bring up your children properly without resorting to the rod.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Not all bible scholars or Christians take "spare the rod and spoil the child" literally.
I agree with the command to honour your mother and father, although that seems to be at odds with what Jesus is recorded as having said. "I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, Whoever comes to me and does not hate their father and mother, and wife and children, and brothers and sisters, yes, and even life itself, can't be my disciple."
It is very easy to lay all the blame at the door of young people who go off the rails, but in many cases they come from a home where parents just don't care and spend no time teaching their children values that will help them grow into good decent adults. The kids have no respect for their parents because the parents have done nothing to earn that respect.
Before she retired, my wife worked helping disadvantaged teenagers. They had a multitude of problems. Drug and alcohol abuse, unwanted pregnancies, victims of sexual abuse and violence, petty crime. My wife said that the majority of these young people came from homes where the parents just did not take the time to bring their children up properly and that did not mean inflicting pain. Many of them were already victims of violence in the home.
Say what you will, but you can bring up your children properly without resorting to the rod.

I believe this issue was even taken to the Supreme Court some years back and their conclusion was.

A little spanking applied to the proper place on the rear when the child has done wrong is a good thing for both child and parent.

M-Bob

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

I believe this issue was even taken to the Supreme Court some years back and their conclusion was.

A little spanking applied to the proper place on the rear when the child has done wrong is a good thing for both child and parent.

M-Bob

People opposed to disciplining a child seem to think one size fits all, as though all children are perfect little angels all the time, never in need of more than a soft "no, no". I think they need more time around a child to get a better perspective.

 

[DavidFirth]

If I saw an adult behaving badly and inflicted pain on that person to make them realise, as you have stated, that bad behaviour results in bad consequences for them, I have no doubt I would be on an assault charge. If it is punishable in law to strike an adult, why would you think it is ok to strike a child. There are many ways to discipline a child and instruct them how to behave without resorting to violence. If you believe inflicting pain is the answer, you need to greatly improve your parenting skills.

I think you're confused. I never said to strike an adult or a child. God's word says to use the rod (spank) on the child to correct them. Once a person is an adult it is too late to spank them, they have to be disciplined as a child.

 

[DavidFirth]

Proverbs 13:24

New International Version
Whoever spares the rod hates their children, but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them.

 

[Desk trauma]

I think you're confused. I never said to strike an adult or a child. God's word says to use the rod (spank) on the child to correct them. Once a person is an adult it is too late to spank them, they have to be disciplined as a child.

How do you go about hitting a child with a rod without striking them?

 

[Doug Melven]

God's word says to use the rod (spank) on the child to correct them

I think an assumption is made here that the rod refers to spanking.
Research on how the word "Rod" is used in the Bible I believe would be beneficial.
Psalm 23:4, Thy Rod and Thy Staff comforts me.
Psalms 89:32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.
Proverbs 23:13 Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.
23:14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.
Do a Concordance search, rod is used 81 times in the KJV.

 

[DavidFirth]

How do you go about hitting a child with a rod without striking them?

You don't know the difference between spanking and striking? You hit a child just hard enough for it to hurt, you don't rare back and intentionally try to hurt them badly.

You think God wants us to strike our children hard enough to break a bone or something? You only spank just enough for there to be some pain.

 

[DavidFirth]

I think an assumption is made here that the rod refers to spanking.
Research on how the word "Rod" is used in the Bible I believe would be beneficial.
Psalm 23:4, Thy Rod and Thy Staff comforts me.
Psalms 89:32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.
Proverbs 23:13 Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.
23:14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.
Do a Concordance search, rod is used 81 times in the KJV.

I do not believe God wants us to strike a child too hard or too much. You believe what you will.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

You hit a child just hard enough for it to hurt, you don't rare back and intentionally try to hurt them badly.

I'm amazed that some don't know that or were never taught that?

Believe me this is a big part of the reason why teachers nowadays are having a hard time with these little wretched ones.

Little Johnny tells himself, I don't listen or do what I'm supposed to at home. Why the heck should I have to obey that teacher??

M-Bob

 

[Desk trauma]

You don't know the difference between spanking and striking?

A distinction without a difference.

You think God wants us to strike our children hard enough to break a bone or something?

I don’t think that the Christian deity exists to want or not want anything.

 

[DavidFirth]

A distinction without a difference.


I don’t think that the Christian deity exists to want or not want anything.

Sorry, I didnt realize I was talking with an atheist. All I have to say to atheists is:

Romans 1:20
New International Version
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

And how can you be so sure that no God exists?

 

[Ana the Ist]

#1 -- the one who never grew a conscience.

#2 -- the one who grew a conscience but, temporarily set it aside.

#3 -- the one who grew a conscience but, killed it.

M-Bob

Care to add to the list?

I take it this is just stuff you made up?