Three Big Questions

[April_Rose]

1. Does anybody else believe that Christianity and evolution can coexist with one another?

2. If so in what ways? (I'm asking before I state my beliefs because I want to see if they line up with mine.)


3. Since the Bible doesn't say one way or the other, is it possible that God created life on other planets?

 

[Speedwell]

1. Does anybody else believe that Christianity and evolution can coexist with one another?

Yes. It does, in fact, for about two billion Christians worldwide.

2. If so in what ways? (I'm asking before I state my beliefs because I want to see if they line up with mine.)

By not requiring that the Genesis stories be accurate literal history.

3. Since the Bible doesn't say one way or the other, is it possible that God created life on other planets?

Sure. Why not?

 

[thecolorsblend]

1. Does anybody else believe that Christianity and evolution can coexist with one another?

Some amount of evolution is simply undeniable.

2. If so in what ways? (I'm asking before I state my beliefs because I want to see if they line up with mine.)

Idk why it's so hard for people to just say "I don't know" and move on. The full extent of evolution prescribed by the I ******* Love Science Bunch is not reproducible in a lab. Neither is creationist theory. And yet, some level of evolution is readily apparent while God is still somehow our creator.

We have incomplete data and more than a few inconsistent facts. There's no shame in everybody saying "This is a real mystery, let's look for answers together" rather than turn everything into a silly ideological battle. I don't get that.

But there are a lot of things I don't get. The French, for example.

3. Since the Bible doesn't say one way or the other, is it possible that God created life on other planets?

Sure. No idea how likely it is but it's possible.

 

[April_Rose]

Well to me I don't see why they both can't be accurate. It says the creation of the world was made in six days in the book of Gensis, but it doesn't say that it couldn't have caused a big bang after God spoke the universe into existence.




Also how do we know that after Adam and Eve were created that they looked exactly like we do today? They could have looked more ape-like as God might have used monkeys as a similar design pattern and hence evolution taking place.

 

[Mantishand]

I don’t have an opinion on evolution but as to question number three, this verse says that he created more than just this world.

Hebrews 11:3
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

 

[pitabread]

1. Does anybody else believe that Christianity and evolution can coexist with one another?

Most Christians have no issue with evolution.

On a side note, your most ardent young-Earth creationists are actually the biggest evolutionists around. Young-Earth creationism requires massive levels of evolution not observed in nature to explain modern species diversity over a 4000 year period.

 

[Halbhh]

1. Does anybody else believe that Christianity and evolution can coexist with one another?

2. If so in what ways? (I'm asking before I state my beliefs because I want to see if they line up with mine.)


3. Since the Bible doesn't say one way or the other, is it possible that God created life on other planets?

1. Does anybody else believe that Christianity and evolution can coexist with one another? -- Yes a little over 1/2 of Christians it seems:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acceptance_of_evolution_by_religious_groups

2. -- In individually unique ways I've found. For both those who accept evolution as what is being described in Genesis chapter 1, and those who do not. Both groups.

I have not found 2 people that had identical ideas past mere the most simple like the rough age of the Earth, when you ask about details, from about 15-20 in-person conservation where I got some of the details of their ideas in face to face. (also, the same is true on the internet, for hundreds of individuals: no 2 the exact same understanding)

No 2 that believe in young Earth agreed on many small details. And from experience I can also expect that no 2 that believe evolution is God's tool would have all the same information or understanding as each other either....

3. -- The universe appears very supportive of the basic chemistry of life -- just as you would expect if you believe in God, Who made all things "very good" for life (Genesis chapter 1).

But, that doesn't guarantee how much life is out there, but only that life could get started in places, over and over...and exist for a short time.

For a few centuries or millennia for instance....until an asteroid slams into the planet and vaporizes all life, or a solar flare fires the elementary life into lifeless dust, etc., or the planet is moved in orbit by other larger planets so that it gets too close or too far from the star and the life broils to death or freezes to death.

And all of these ways that basic life would be extinguished are the normal, most common, predominate conditions around most stars. Or if you take just 1 or the 7 or so deadly things, practically every star has at least 1 happening to its planets.

Even for the stars similar in mass and composition and age and rotation to our own Sun -- harmful conditions are common, such as asteroid impact or desiccation via solar wind.

(And that's not all. This is pretty interesting: our Sun acts quite unusually for its kind of star, to out great advantage:
Our Sun behaves *unlike* stars of about same mass/composition)

 

[Tolworth John]

Does anybody else believe that Christianity and evolution can coexist with one another?

No they cannot coexist for a simple reason. Both claim to be the final authority.
When atheistic evolutionary science says something do you believe that?
Or do you believe what is clearly seen in the Bible?

Evolution says we are no more than animals, the Bible says we are made in the image of God.
Do you support abortion, intfancide and uthanasia. All products of an evolutionary world view. Does the Bible have higher authority?

If so in what ways? (I'm asking before I state my beliefs because I want to see if they line up with mine.)

I just did, should have linked those two.

Since the Bible doesn't say one way or the other, is it possible that God created life on other planets?

No the Bible doesn't say, but it does say that All have sinned, meaning all intelligent live, so ET will have sinned, so how is he going to hear about his saviour?

The vastness of the universe is God showing us something of how fast he is and of his love of creating.
It is the same on earth, look at the enormous area of plants, trees and forms of life.

We would have been happy with 5 or 6 plants, trees,canimals etc, but see how generous God is in the range he created.

 

[Halbhh]

God made everything (not just an illustrative list only and nothing more...).



Therefore, He made the natural laws of physics and chemistry also. They exist, ergo, He made them.

Think on that a moment though -- anything and everything that ever happens naturally, such as a plant growing in sunlight, is operating by His laws of nature that He made.

God's design. His creation.

See?

When planets orbit by gravity, or a plant grows by photosynthesis in sunlight by chemistry....these 'science' things are...well, God things. Things He made to happen.

The wonderful chapter(s) are vastly better than all the debates people get side tracked into about details not clearly spelled out in precise small trivial ways, like what chemistry or time frame or etc, geology, whatever side issue people get stuck in.

But for something so much better -- that when we truly listen, reading through with total listening -- the words happen to us.

Afterward we are no longer the same person. When we listen like that, something good happens to us.

You start to get the real messages, the deeper messages. That all that exists, all, is made to be "very good" for us!

Even the great expanse of the vast starry sky is stretched out just for us to see, to wonder in awe at the transcendent beauty of the stars.

That's something you hear, when you listen.

To listen, one must stop debating though, and put aside all the theories, and just truly listen, just for yourself to simply hear.

 

[April_Rose]

1. Does anybody else believe that Christianity and evolution can coexist with one another? -- Yes a little over 1/2 of Christians it seems:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acceptance_of_evolution_by_religious_groups

2. -- In individually unique ways I've found. For both those who accept evolution as what is being described in Genesis chapter 1, and those who do not. Both groups.

I have not found 2 people that had identical ideas past mere the most simple like the rough age of the Earth, when you ask about details, from about 15-20 in-person conservation where I got some of the details of their ideas in face to face. (also, the same is true on the internet, for hundreds of individuals: no 2 the exact same understanding)

No 2 that believe in young Earth agreed on many small details. And from experience I can also expect that no 2 that believe evolution is God's tool would have all the same information or understanding as each other either....

3. -- The universe appears very supportive of the basic chemistry of life -- just as you would expect if you believe in God, Who made all things "very good" for life (Genesis chapter 1).

But, that doesn't guarantee how much life is out there, but only that life could get started in places, over and over...and exist for a short time.

For a few centuries or millennia for instance....until an asteroid slams into the planet and vaporizes all life, or a solar flare fires the elementary life into lifeless dust, etc., or the planet is moved in orbit by other larger planets so that it gets too close or too far from the star and the life broils to death or freezes to death.

And all of these ways that basic life would be extinguished are the normal, most common, predominate conditions around most stars. Or if you take just 1 or the 7 or so deadly things, practically every star has at least 1 happening to its planets.

Even for the stars similar in mass and composition and age and rotation to our own Sun -- harmful conditions are common, such as asteroid impact or desiccation via solar wind.

(And that's not all. This is pretty interesting: our Sun acts quite unusually for its kind of star, to out great advantage:
Our Sun behaves *unlike* stars of about same mass/composition)

I'm special needs and I afraid that I don't understand. :/

 

[April_Rose]

Oops sorry, you already know that now.

 

[Halbhh]

I'm special needs and I afraid that I don't understand. :/

For the first question: there are many Christian believers that believe God created all that is that have both viewpoints, that He either used evolution as His tool, or that he suddenly created things in just instants of time. It's a mistake to argue about these small details we are not told in the vision. We should listen instead, to hear, and be taken to a good place by the wonderful words.

#2 -- if God used evolution, that fits God's creating of all that is -- all things. All of chemistry and thus also evolution would only be His design in action.

It's kind of the same difference. It even can look the same.

He is able to do anything with mere 'time' that He wants to do. He could make a billion years pass in an instant if He chose to.

See?

So, it's not even something to worry about.

#3 -- we could only guess, but it seems unlikely. But it could be life starts by His laws of nature in many places, but that only Earth is safe enough for life to last long.

And our planet Earth seems to be far more rare than many people realize, once you get into the small details of astronomy. In other words, don't believe all the flashy headlines some magazine puts on their articles.

People who learn the numerous small astronomy details learn how a planet like Earth might be fantastically more rare than some science writers have guessed in recent years. Perhaps truly unique in that no other planet is even slightly like it, but that's speculation.

But, we will hear many more headline claims of 'Earth like worlds' I bet. Don't believe those.

I know better from thousands of astronomy articles over decades. Even to find one slightly like Earth with seas and continents would be a wonderful and amazing find. But that's still a long ways from being safe and good for life.

 

[April_Rose]

For the first question: there are many Christian believers that believe God created all that is that have both viewpoints, that He either used evolution as His tool, or that he suddenly created things in just instants of time. It's a mistake to argue about these small details we are not told in the vision. We should listen instead, to hear, and be taken to a good place by the wonderful words.

#2 -- if God used evolution, that fits God's creating of all that is -- all things. All of chemistry and thus also evolution would only be His design in action.

It's kind of the same difference. It even can look the same.

He is able to do anything with mere 'time' that He wants to do. He could make a billion years pass in an instant if He chose to.

See?

So, it's not even something to worry about.

#3 -- we could only guess, but it seems unlikely. But it could be life starts by His laws of nature in many places, but that only Earth is safe enough for life to last long.

And our planet Earth seems to be far more rare than many people realize, once you get into the small details of astronomy. In other words, don't believe all the flashy headlines some magazine puts on their articles.

People who learn the numerous small astronomy details learn how a planet like Earth might be fantastically more rare than some science writers have guessed in recent years. Perhaps truly unique in that no other planet is even slightly like it, but that's speculation.

But, we will hear many more headline claims of 'Earth like worlds' I bet. Don't believe those.

I know better from thousands of astronomy articles over decades. Even to find one slightly like Earth with seas and continents would be a wonderful and amazing find. But that's still a long ways from being safe and good for life.

I'm really sorry, but I'm afraid that I still don't understand. :\

 

[Halbhh]

I'm really sorry, but I'm afraid that I still don't understand. :\

People believe both ways.

God can do both ways, and both ways can fit all scripture, since He is Creator, and can make chemistry/physics, even time do whatever He wants.

He could make a million years pass in 1 second, If He chose. (so even the words can be either 'literal' or 'figurative' or both, and all work perfectly with either scenario).

See?

So, it's not even an issue of 'evolution' vs 'creation' -- they could look exactly the same as each other, by the scripture.

And, the whole debate people have is unimportant for that reason AND another reason: it isn't a listening attitude.

Only real listening gives us the wonderful effect of scripture -- so make time to just read with just listening, and keep reading.

 

[April_Rose]

People believe both ways.

God can do both ways, and both ways can fit all scripture, since He is Creator, and can make chemistry/physics, even time do whatever He wants.

He could make a million years pass in 1 second, If He chose. (so even the words can be either 'literal' or 'figurative' or both, and all work perfectly with either scenario).

See?

So, it's not even an issue of 'evolution' vs 'creation' -- they could look exactly the same as each other, by the scripture.

And, the whole debate people have is unimportant for that reason AND another reason: it isn't a listening attitude.

Only real listening gives us the wonderful effect of scripture -- so make time to just read with just listening, and keep reading.

Thanks, that finally made sense to me.

 

[Gene2memE]

1. Does anybody else believe that Christianity and evolution can coexist with one another?

Yep. I was a Catholic for ~35 years. I had no problem with evolution then, neither did my teachers who were priests and Catholic lay people.

Accepting that the Theory of Evolution is the best scientific explanation for the development, history and present diversity of life is pretty much just the default stance across the globe.

The rest of the world is not the US or (Turkey).

Even in the US, most Christians are not politically conservative Evangelical Protestants, which is the combination of political and religious belief that has the most problems with the theory.

Catholics, mainline Protestants ect don't insist on literalist interpretations of the Genesis account.

2. If so in what ways? (I'm asking before I state my beliefs because I want to see if they line up with mine.)

Look at the history of the Catholic Church's deliberations about the theory of evolution over the 1870s through to the mid 1930s. You'll see how a significant body of theological thought can be reshaped to be brought more into line with better available evidence from reality.

3. Since the Bible doesn't say one way or the other, is it possible that God created life on other planets?

As a non-believer, I can't even agree that a God exists, or if one did, that it created life on this planet.

I accept that there is the potential for life to exist elsewhere in the universe, but I can't claim to know whether it exists of not.

 

[eleos1954]

Well to me I don't see why they both can't be accurate. It says the creation of the world was made in six days in the book of Gensis, but it doesn't say that it couldn't have caused a big bang after God spoke the universe into existence.

Also how do we know that after Adam and Eve were created that they looked exactly like we do today? They could have looked more ape-like as God might have used monkeys as a similar design pattern and hence evolution taking place.

Something doesn't come from nothing. The "big bang" WAS when God spoke the universe existence.

In Genesis the Lord is clear ... animals are distinct from human beings (science classifies humans within the animal kingdom) ... He created animal first ... then man. In Genesis ... He states man was created from the dust ... He fully formed them and then breathed His breath into Adam and he became a living being .... Eve was created fully formed (from the rib of Adam) ... and He bestowed the gift of procreation among all His creations .... after their kind ... us coming from animals is NOT after their kind ... we are not animals.

God says He created the entire universe. To compare "apples" with "apples" ... then the entire Theory of how life became into being (origin of life) must include the entire cosmos. Science and people of faith agree on this one point .... whatever happened for life to begin ... happened out in the cosmos. What does man know about the entire universe? Not much really. It is so vast we can't even really comprehend it.

Evolution directly contradicts and denies God's creative power.

NOTE: People believe otherwise and all have the opportunity to post in here ... so do so .... I agree to disagree and leave it there.

In summary:

The Creation narrative in the first two chapters of Genesis, the first book of the Bible, clearly indicates that the work of creation was done in six, 24-hour days. Evolution directly contradicts this and denies God’s creative power. Just as Christ performed miracles instantaneously while He was here on earth, so also He did His work of creation instantaneously during Creation week. The Bible says, “By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, and all the host of them by the breath of His mouth. . . . For He spoke, and it was done; He commanded, and it stood fast” (Psalm 33:6, 9). God says, “I have made the earth, and created man on it. I—My hands—stretched out the heavens, and all their host I have commanded” (Isaiah 45:12). One cannot believe these verses and also believe in evolution.

There are many other biblical reasons ... but don't want my post to be too large. ;o)

I will PM you with a link ... that has much you should consider.

God Bless.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Something doesn't come from nothing. The "big bang" WAS when God spoke the universe existence.

In Genesis the Lord is clear ... animals are distinct from human beings (science classifies humans within the animal kingdom) ... He created animal first ... then man. In Genesis ... He states man was created from the dust ... He fully formed them and then breathed His breath into Adam and he became a living being .... Eve was created fully formed (from the rib of Adam) ... and He bestowed the gift of procreation among all His creations .... after their kind ... us coming from animals is NOT after their kind ... we are not animals.

God says He created the entire universe. To compare "apples" with "apples" ... then the entire Theory of how life became into being (origin of life) must include the entire cosmos. Science and people of faith agree on this one point .... whatever happened for life to begin ... happened out in the cosmos. What does man know about the entire universe? Not much really. It is so vast we can't even really comprehend it.

Evolution directly contradicts and denies God's creative power.

NOTE: People believe otherwise and all have the opportunity to post in here ... so do so .... I agree to disagree and leave it there.

In summary:

The Creation narrative in the first two chapters of Genesis, the first book of the Bible, clearly indicates that the work of creation was done in six, 24-hour days. Evolution directly contradicts this and denies God’s creative power. Just as Christ performed miracles instantaneously while He was here on earth, so also He did His work of creation instantaneously during Creation week. The Bible says, “By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, and all the host of them by the breath of His mouth. . . . For He spoke, and it was done; He commanded, and it stood fast” (Psalm 33:6, 9). God says, “I have made the earth, and created man on it. I—My hands—stretched out the heavens, and all their host I have commanded” (Isaiah 45:12). One cannot believe these verses and also believe in evolution.

There are many other biblical reasons ... but don't want my post to be too large. ;o)

I will PM you with a link ... that has much you should consider.

God Bless.

The problem is all the scientific evidence out there is very clear that man is the product of evolution. Why take Genesis literally? There are countless Christians that do not take Genesis literally, it has been refuted far too many times to do that. I have asked creationists if God can lie and of course they say no. That creates a huge problem for them since then they must come up with a rational explanation for the fact that the evidence, that we find in what would be God's creation, tells us that Genesis is wrong if read literally.

Have you checked out Biologos? That is a Christian site where scientists that are Christians show why Genesis cannot be interpreted in the manner that you do:

BioLogos - God's Word. God's World.

 

[Philip Bruce Heywood]

Replying to THECOLORSBLEND.
I am new here and may have my response out of place -- kindly bear with me.

We have incomplete data and more than a few inconsistent facts. There's no shame in everybody saying "This is a real mystery, let's look for answers together" rather than turn everything into a silly ideological battle. I don't get that. [My emphasis.]

Well put. There is only one argument worth winning -- love -- it covers a multitude of sins.(Bible). Arguments give a chap ulcers. I must be slower than usual --what's "the French?" Hope that's not an embarrassing question.

That photograph-- my logo -- if it's showing -- is of someone who could be mistaken for me, sitting on a trough which could be on my (Australian) farm. The collie is a likeness of my now deceased collie. The drought is also genuine.

Geologist, entranced by the topic, once worked in the Geologic Survey of Queensland, retired, went farming, was induced to attempt to teach geology in a school, was stymied by the "real mystery" of the origins of life topic and the obvious truth yet seeming stubborn technical inaccuracy of Genesis the book. First 9 chapters especially. At the point of giving it up I said to the Almighty, "If I am going to teach this, you will need to explain it." Some years subsequent, I find myself publishing the end of the controversy -- science being at a place where Genesis can now be clearly understood in minute technical detail. See Creationtheory dot com and the book, The Tree of Life and the Origin of the Species. Replaces Darwin's effort of similar title.

It's all over.

What the hang. Why would anyone get excited over the topic. Well, in truth, there are a few spinoffs -- reassuring humanity re. fossil fuel usage and global temperature included. It' all over. The "love that covers a multitude of sins" is what really interests me.

If anyone has any queries, I will try to answer them. For what it's worth. Look up my site first and don't rush in. That's creationtheory dot com . I tried to educate Ken Ham about geology and Genesis. Perhaps that's why he emigrated? Let's look for answers together.

 

[Philip Bruce Heywood]

You ask good questions.
The word, Evolution, literally means an unrolling, as an unrolling carpet roll. So if I was to ask someone whether they believe evolution happened, the person would almost certainly say, "Yes". This page, for example, is an evolution of successive printed comments. Our individual lives are an evolution or an unrolling. For some of us - for many of us -- that unrolling has many difficulties to overcome and challenges to meet. I had a special needs son.

If you see a roll of, say, carpet, or paper, or something such unrolling, you would say you believe it unrolled.

But if someone said that the carpet was unrolling by its own ability -- what to make of things unrolling by their own power?

Geologists see an unrolling of life in the rock strata. If a geologist was to say it just happened without anything causing it ---- that is belief in something like magic.

As for Darwin -- he was the first to doubt his own explanation and his dear wife tried to steer him clear of magic. He did not invent Evolution. He wrote a book about the origin of species which, if the book were true, means species would not exist. If species could grade into each other, species would not exist. I was lectured by a world class fossil expert who said he could not fit a razor blade in the rock column between no flowering plant fossils (only microscopic fossilized spores of non-flowering plants) and an avalanche of flowering plants (abundant fossilized pollen grains and seeds).

It's a big and long story -- and it started well before Darwin. It involved world leading hands-on experts -- men such as Lamarck, Buffon, Cuvier, Sir Richard Owen ...... . The story has not finished.