Threatening??

Gardenia said:

Oh but it is, as has been pointed out both before and after this post of yours. Please go back and read what I wrote in post 78, and I'll sum it up here again...

You are not the first Christian to claim a pagan background, yet can provide no basic details about the dates as pagan, tradition practiced, and so on.

Instead of sharing an actual testimony, which I find most Christians are happy to do, you avoid questions and start to make some pretty outrageous claims - claims that you can't back up, claims that you have no evidence or even details for. Claims that you know more about paganism and what it "actually" is than the long time pagans on this forum - and claims that frankly make no sense.

So put yourself in our shoes, and you'll understand just why we want the details, why we find them relevant. Go back and read your own posts again, but replace paganism with Christianity. If someone told you your own story back to you, would you just accept it and leave Christianity? Would it shake your faith at all? Would you believe any of it?

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tell me your pagan background prove to me your actually a pagan

b&wpac7 said:

It's VERY relevant. You are making a claim that your story involves you going from pagan to Christian. Some background details are nice.

I've seen the same tactic used where someone claims they practiced Judaism and then became a "completed Jew". When questioned about their Jewish background it becomes clear they either had no Jewish background to speak of or are flat out lying about it. Some think the ends justify the means. Yes, there are Jews who practiced Judaism that became Christians, I would not deny that. However, there are many willing to exaggerate or lie to push their agenda.

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prove to me your really a jew and not of the synogogue of satan

thegospelisoffensive said:

prove to me your really a jew and not of the synogogue of satan

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thegospelisoffensive said:

tell me your pagan background prove to me your actually a pagan

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Nobody doubts either of those people are what they claim to be, when asked they are more than welcome to share what they know about their faiths.

You however dodge and weave and doge and weave.

Why?

thegospelisoffensive said:

prove to me your really a jew and not of the synogogue of satan

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What would you take as proof?

By the way, I don't believe in Satan as some sort of enemy against God. I cannot be a member of his brigade simply because he doesn't have such a thing.

Hint: Lying for Christ is still lying.

Jane_the_Bane said:

Hint: Lying for Christ is still lying.

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And lying makes baby Jesus cry.

thegospelisoffensive said:

So does masonry doesn't it, there such a wholesome bunch, who doesn't love a free hospital for children, gotta hand it to the PR of the Masons, they know what their doing.

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Whatever may be true of masonry isn't necessarily true of Wiccans. I need more than your paranoia to change my view of how Wicca is structured.


eudaimonia,

Mark

thegospelisoffensive said:

tell me your pagan background prove to me your actually a pagan

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Sure! I was pretty young when I first became a pagan, it was right before my 12th birthday. I was practicing Wicca at the time, solitary of course. It was through Wicca that I eventually found my love for the ancient Egyptian pantheon, and slowly moved from a sort of Tameran Wicca to Kemetic reconstructionism - still slightly eclectic with some kitchen/hedge witchcraft mixed in, since I felt these practices helped me better to connect with the land around me (New Hampshire... not exactly like Egypt, heh).

This went on until I was in my second year of high school, where I totally deviated from paganism and began to study Shinto, Buddhism, Christianity, and primarily Hinduism.

Around my last year of high school I returned to paganism, and actually became a Kemetic Reconstructionist - eventually joining the Kemetic Orthodox faith (aka House of Netjer). I took their introduction class in mid '05, and became a member in Dec of '05. I was a member of the house until late '07. I left because I had personal issues with the leader, and with some of their practices (no, it was nothing sinister, and I still have friends in the house).

After leaving the house, I was at a bit of a loss. I went back to Wicca for a short while, remembered why I stopped practicing it (again, nothing sinister, just didn't feel all of the practices meshed well with my personal beliefs), and instead took up hedge witchcraft - and of course there's still that bit of ancient Egyptian influence that I have. This is what I still follow.

Now hopefully I didn't mess up any dates, but that's my background in paganism. If you have any questions about the specific traditions I was a member of, or my personal practices now (or anything else), I am happy to answer.


Now, will you actually answer the questions that people have put forth to you? Or will there simply be more evading? I mean, this question in itself is just another tactic to avoid answering the questions put to you - I'm not the one making huge claims here, if you're going to say these things you must expect that people will want you to back them up. It only makes sense, right? I mean, once again, if someone were telling you this tale - but instead making these claims about Christianity - how readily would you believe?

Reading through the detours that threads like this take leaves me wondering if I should laugh - or cry.

No wonder I have strong reservations about having much to do with some who claim Christs name let alone working for churches.

BTW Thegospelisoffensive [what a forum name for a follower of Christ to take upon themselves] your not using the correct jargon for what you claim to be. Your ignorance of the history of wicca is so great it may need a new label to be constructed to attempt to convey the idea of as much depth as a dried out puddle in a prolonged draughgt in the full sun.

May I suggest you ditch the conspiracy and SRA websites you have been using as your sources and sit down with the Holy scriptures instead. You would be better advised to spend far more time learning about Christ from the Holy Bible itself instead of bearing fasle witness which besmirches the name of Jesus Christ, fails to convict sinners and distracts and detours the church from serving the will of God through Christ.

Gardenia,

Thank you, what you have posted ties with what I know of the house of netjar and kem' based wicca. Your background is as you say and you are asking reasonable questions that anyone who truly has been there and then truly decides to follow Christ would not get snarky about. There is no need to big up a relationship with Christ; a real one withstands and is clear for all to see without the need to add grandiose claims.

I follow Christ and because that matters I see the need to question that which makes false the whole soteria of Christ.

b&wpac7 said:

What would you take as proof?

By the way, I don't believe in Satan as some sort of enemy against God. I cannot be a member of his brigade simply because he doesn't have such a thing.

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niether do Wiccans or Pagans its a meaningless statement, because whether they know it or not satan is at the helm, the driving force behind their goddesses, and deities, and spirit guides, actually Wiccans are pagans, druidism is pagan, if you practice witchcraft your considered pagan, channeling spirits and astrol projection is a pagan practice, your channeled spirit guide may not follow any of common pagan practices, thats the diversity in paganism and Wicca they overlap and are interwined, they hold many of the same holy symbols, to call yourself pagan doesn't mean you have to worship mother goddess Gaia or dance about the forest worshiping tree's thats why its pointless to make you understand if I am practicing channeling and practicing witchcraft, and have become filled with spirits, I assure you in all aspects of the definition I consider myself to be a pagan, using the natural things of the earth to influence and change things or see things unseen. its all witchcraft and is paganism. your definition of paganism may be as different as a catholic is from a pentecostal, yet there both considered christian, this is the same in the evaluation of paganism some worship the earth, the stars, the moon, goddeses, and other deities, some worship animals and stones, some worship themselves and are their own god and goddeses how ever the spirit leads them, satanism is a form of paganism its all part of the same kingdom, you just fail to see it

Why are you calling me a pagan? I practice Judaism which is not a form of paganism.

thegospelisoffensive said:

satanism is a form of paganism its all part of the same kingdom, you just fail to see it

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Neither LaVayan nor theistic Satanism are usually regarded as paganism - both by pagans and Satanists.

b&wpac7 said:

Why are you calling me a pagan? I practice Judaism which is not a form of paganism.

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You have a prayer that explicitly thanks god that you are not like the pagans, right?

I remember because I had the luck to have to read that passage out loud once at temple. God does have a sense of humor apparently.

b&wpac7 said:

Why are you calling me a pagan? I practice Judaism which is not a form of paganism.

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I didn't call you pagan although whether you believe it or not that dragon spoken of in your old testiment, is satan, and he is very much alive.....for a little while longer

I have to love the presumptions. Wiccans are not pagans- do at least bother to research the history of wicca before leaping in with errenous sweeping statements. Come to think of it some research into 'pagans' etmological routes would not go amiss either.

Druidism is a C17th reconstruction based on latin historic sources and a whole heap of romantic notions in reaction to the Industrial Revelotion in the UK.

If you practice witchcraft you tend to be a witch not a wiccan which is a more spiritual and mediative path with its own forms of constructed liturgies.

Astral projection and channeling - your showing ignorance yet again your mixing and matching with the occasional jargon word used in the wrong place and the wrong context. There is another word I could use- does the phrase 'ecclectic fluffy' ring any bells?

You have failed to see the common patriarch roots of Cathliscim, Eastern Orthodoxy and Pentecostal forms of Christianity.

Satanism as a form of paganism ahhh blessikins. Nope. You have not read much have you.

How about the bible as a starting point to read - its worth it honest.

...maybe you should read the OT- all of it.............

thegospelisoffensive said:

I didn't call you pagan although whether you believe it or not that dragon spoken of in your old testiment, is satan, and he is very much alive.....for a little while longer

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Which dragon? Could you give me the verses?

vespasia said:

I have to love the presumptions. Wiccans are not pagans- do at least bother to research the history of wicca before leaping in with errenous sweeping statements. Come to think of it some research into 'pagans' etmological routes would not go amiss either.

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Errrr... I don't want to burst your bubble, but... Wicca is very much a (neo-)pagan religion. Its personal (and at the very least semi-mythological) history even seizes upon the etymology of the "country-dwellers", claiming that it's based on an unbroken line of tradition that was kept alive in out-of-the-way places.

vespasia said:

Wiccans are not pagans

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Actually, this is at least one thing he's got right (but then, he's already had this pointed out to him earlier in the thread). Wicca is a pagan tradition, it's just not the only pagan tradition. Modern day druids are also pagans, but there doesn't have to be an overlap between Wicca and druidry - just like a Greek recon is a pagan, but can be separate from both Wicca and druidry... and so on.

This is exactly why trying to lump them all in and saying there's some conspiracy where the leadership of each group reports to some other leader, all the way up to Satan... well, it just doesn't make sense. Paganism is made up of many different groups and individuals, there is no single structured pagan hierarchy. If he wants to believe that pagans/non-Christians are being unwittingly tricked by Satan to not be Christians? Well, okay - I'm not going to agree with him, but he can believe it if he wants. However, to make the claim that there's some secret conspiracy in paganism? Nope, proof please.