Threatening??

thegospelisoffensive said:

Almost all religions can be joined togather to make one universal global church, where everyone is on a path to reach God. the only problem with that teaching is that Jesus said "I am the way the truth and the life No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6 Jesus makes His way the only way, there is according to Jesus and the bible only one path that leads to eternal life and that is through Jesus

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It is not necessarily a problem, as millions of Christians have found. The words you quote, "I am the way, the truth and the life" do not stand alone, and like all Bible verses, can be "known" by the spirit, by the "spiritual man"........or merely read by the natural man in order to justify the conceptual parameters of their own understanding and current theological scheme.

The words are given in the Gospel of St John, who speaks of Christ as the light that lights all who come into the world.

The words are given in the self same chapter where Jesus tell his disciples that in my Father's house are many mansions, where, after the words quoted, He says.......He who has my laws and keeps them, he it is who has love for me: and he who has love for me will be loved by my Father, and I will have love for him and will let myself be seen clearly by him.

So, the light that lights ALL, many mansions.............and the "laws" of Christ are found throughout the Bible, often purely expressed as love of one another, love of neighbour.

I remember once, watching a TV programme where various religious themes were being discussed between a Rabbi and two Christians. The Christians were asked to say what accepting Jesus as being the "son" of God meant to them. One spoke and said that this means that by such acceptance a human being becomes a son of God in a totally unique sense, and only such acceptance allows one to become so. The rabbi spoke up and said, "Do you mean to imply by that, that the Jewish people in the death camps of Auschwitz and Treblinka, who shared their last slice of bread with each other, were not God's children in the fullest possible sense?". The Christian then began equivocating, and began to speak of the parable of the wedding guests, where those originally invited failed to turn up, and others were then gathered up from the backroads! The rabbi, with a smile, just waved his finger at him and said "Oh no no no, we Jews, Hindu's , Buddhist's, want to come into heaven by the front door with you Christians, not sneak in as an afterthought around the back......."

So have your "only way", your "narrow way". Justify it, read each Bible verse as the "spirit takes you". Just allow the thought that perhaps you understand wrong.

Perhaps Overbearing is a better word than threatening when it comes to most who chose to "spread" the gospel.

If Not For Grace said:

Perhaps Overbearing is a better word than threatening when it comes to most who chose to "spread" the gospel.

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I think, in the end, the problem is that some people act like jerks when they try to mission, and when people are offended by that, it must be the message and not the messenger in their minds. They'll even turn to the idea that Christians will be persecuted like Jesus was. Obviously being beaten and hung on a cross to die is quite comparable with someone telling you to go away or shut up.

To be honest, I've been approached by Catholics, JWs, and Mormons and they were all very polite and friendly and respectful. The only time I was irked was when I found an Evangelical publication left on my doorstep. I don't appreciate littering on my property.

vajradhara said:

well... we've already got one, you see!

what?! you've already got a Holy Grail?! Can we see it?

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Sorry, that was a mistake.

My daughter left the grail-shaped beacon on again last night. *sigh*

She contributes to global climate change way too much...

b&wpac7 said:

That would violate their religious beliefs. The Great Commission says to go convert everybody, not to stop if they ask you not to come.

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Oh, the Great Commission says to go spread the Gospel to everyone, but the NT also says if a place is not receptive...keep moving.

Which if you think about it, is actually pretty good advice.

It makes the Gospel-spreading more efficient, more effective, and generally doesn't annoy people who aren't interested in hearing it.

Unfortunately it isn't practiced so well in some quarters, but oh well, it's not like I can do that much to stop the overzealous unless they're standing on my property or something.

Even then, I don't try, though I do advise them not to bother my Jewish neighbors, who I know are just seriously NOT interested in being assimilated. Sometimes the proselytizers even listen to that advice, so I keep giving it. LOL I live in hope.

The4thrider said:

More than likely we because we've heard it all before. Its not like you going to be walking down the street and find some one that hasn't heard it all at least once.

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Yes, I sure have heard it all too. At least I've heard the usual opening lines the one offs come up with. (Discussion one-on-one with fellow humans about their faith traditions is another matter...I find that enjoyable and useful and not annoying or I wouldn't be here.)

Um, I was raised Calvinist in a very religiously active family and did my catechism and then some, thanks. I used to swipe my father's theology books when mom wasn't looking (girls are not supposed to read such things?).

Then I married into a Roman Catholic family, so I've gotten the highly sacerdotal "we don't do sola scriptura" side of Christianity as well.

Now, there may be some people who really haven't heard much because they simply have not been around any religious people in their family or neighborhood to know much. I do meet them from time to time, even in the Bible Belt. Oddly, I would count my niece and nephew among them.

Second, It never at a good time. I had some one try and talk to me about god when I was using the bathroom at my college. It always when I need to be doing something important or need to be somewhere.

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LOL I have a friend who would say of this, "What? You want to speak of God in a place of defilement? What is wrong with you???"

Its like a old low production value commercial. It wasn't entertaining the first time you saw it, and it just gets older after the 5000 times you've seen it. You just want it to be over with so you can go back to watching your TV show.

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Oh, I don't care if someone attempts to explain what I've heard ad infinitum before, as long as they only try once and stop when I explain that yes, thanks, I know that quite well, please move on to another aspect about your faith.

awitch said:

What does "being involved" have to do with anything?

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"Being involved" sounds like something that would cause a scandal for an elected legislator.

I'd advise against it.

thegospelisoffensive said:

I was under the impression that Hindus believe there are many paths to truth, If Christianity were a path to truth what downfall would it have for Hinduism, were all on the path for truth, If all religions and gods lead to this truth who cares?

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Ah yes, your logic essentially goes, "if all religions are equally valid, why not convert to Christianity." First of all, if you accept the assertion that all religions are equally valid, then this makes Christianity completely arbitrary. I might as well say that since all religions are equally valid, you should convert to Scientology. This is not the line of reasoning an evangelical Christian would want to adopt.

Secondly, the "all religions are equally valid" mantra, while a prevalent belief in Hinduism, is by no means a foundational Hindu teaching. I'm sure most Hindus believe it, just as most Christians in America believe that other religions are paths to salvation. But it is patently obvious that our two religions teach mutually exclusive beliefs. I believe that your religion is false just as much as you believe mine is. The difference is that I don't think you will suffer eternal torment for your error.

thegospelisoffensive said:

And sending missionaries is part of the gospel (good news) that you can turn away from worthless statues that are made by men and cows that can't even speak and worship the creator of the world who gave His life for you, so that you might live,

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You are aware that Hindus don't worship cows, are you not? As far as my "worthless statues" go, this is an expert quotation from the book of Psalms (I've read your Bible), but nothing you've said convinces me that the Creator of the world, in whom I believe, doesn't want me to give due adoration to images that represent him.

thegospelisoffensive said:

has any of the hindu gods been crucified and nailed to a cross giving up their life for yours. Thats the kinda God Jesus is! what god in any religion dies to save his people.....only the God of the bible

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The only reason the God of the Bible dies to save his people is because according to your own Bible, God charges all humans with sin by virtue of their nature and condemns them to hell. In effect, you would have one believe that God invents a problem and them proposes a strange solution to it. Personally I think it too convenient that all sin is punishable with eternal hell. It trivializes wrongdoing by claiming that humans are incapable of paying for their evils (without suffering eternal torment), and then proposes an easy solution. Hindus are not moral relativists; we believe in the idea of sin, and there are rituals prescribed for absolution from it. None of them are quite so easy as repeating a prayer and believing that someone else can be punished for our sins. All require sincere repentance (to use Christian terminology), but without the requirement of conversion to your religion.

The "did your god(s) die for the forgiveness of your sins?" is a common line I hear from Christian proselytizers. I don't find it particularly convincing.

thegospelisoffensive said:

Almost all religions can be joined togather to make one universal global church, where everyone is on a path to reach God. the only problem with that teaching is that Jesus said "I am the way the truth and the life No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6 Jesus makes His way the only way, there is according to Jesus and the bible only one path that leads to eternal life and that is through Jesus

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I'm sure this legitimizes the exclusivity of Christianity in your eyes. But you forget that I don't believe anything in the Bible to be necessarily true. This is why quoting Bible verses to me is also not very convincing that I should convert to Christianity and utterly abandon the religion of my ancestors.

The only reason that would apply to even polite missionaries is that you are either trying to overthrow a basic mindset of people, perhaps even a status quo, but more reasonably, it is that you can be said to be, as others have noted, threatening in that you say these people will go to hell if they don't convert. It seems on its face a form of coercion; believe or suffer eternally in the afterlife. Many people are predisposed to this kind of thinking, so that seems a threatening statement to bring up in an otherwise polite and civil conversation, "Yeah, you want to be happy? Well, believe this or you'll never be happy". It's that kind of condescension that makes me just walk away from discussions of how atheists will truly never be moral like Christians are; that is to say, righteous before God, which is just begging the question and dismissing morality as having any real worth.

thegospelisoffensive said:

Ha ha ha and tell me old wise one Is there a network of organized crime families in America and world wide for that matter, can you tell me who and how these families control the network that they run, It appears FBI and the CIA have had decades of time trying to dismantle and destroy the mafia and as it appears they haven't even made a dent. So I guess we could all just do what Hoover did and just say "they don't exist" you may be deeply involved in wicca and have no knowledge of a controling entity just as many gang members don't know who their being directed by up the ladder, thats how the mafia works, thats how Wicca works, then again there are stations in every gang, coven, mob that aren't privy to whats really going on, If it were you probably would want out

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What? Seriously, what?

1) Despite the "danger" involved, I successfully extricated myself from any form of Wicca via the tried-and-true method of "insult someone with the truth." I don't like dogma, and to paraphrase Uncle Al, I was asked to believe that which I could not verify, and, my infosci being so good, it refused to be insulted in that manner.

2) As you have provided no information demonstrating even a basic knowledge of paganism in general, or Wicca in particular, you are now dismissed as another Christian who filled in the "ex-'paganist' testimony MadLib."

3) See (1), I'm not Wiccan, and am generally highly critical of the whole construct of Wicca. Were there any evidence that it was anywhere near as cultish as you cite, I'd take great joy in it. Alas, I must settle for "doesn't make any sense" and "refuses to acknowledge its basis in Western Mystery Traditions, such as Thelema and the Golden Dawn."

sidhe said:

What? Seriously, what?

1) Despite the "danger" involved, I successfully extricated myself from any form of Wicca via the tried-and-true method of "insult someone with the truth." I don't like dogma, and to paraphrase Uncle Al, I was asked to believe that which I could not verify, and, my infosci being so good, it refused to be insulted in that manner.

2) As you have provided no information demonstrating even a basic knowledge of paganism in general, or Wicca in particular, you are now dismissed as another Christian who filled in the "ex-'paganist' testimony MadLib."

3) See (1), I'm not Wiccan, and am generally highly critical of the whole construct of Wicca. Were there any evidence that it was anywhere near as cultish as you cite, I'd take great joy in it. Alas, I must settle for "doesn't make any sense" and "refuses to acknowledge its basis in Western Mystery Traditions, such as Thelema and the Golden Dawn."

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You obviously were part of Wicca outer circle, they could careless whether you stay or go, much like the outer ring of masonry, its just a boys club. As for providing you with information with my paganism and sorcery I don't think its relevent, and I have no intention of glamorizing satanic power, YES I know pagans and Wicca don't reconize satan, If you were to reach the top echelon of power, in both these religions you would find Lucifer, just as if you climbed the ladder in masonry, their all connected at the top, your just so far down at the bottom you can't see it. you fail to see the much bigger picture.

thegospelisoffensive said:

As for providing you with information with my paganism and sorcery I don't think its relevent,

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It's VERY relevant. You are making a claim that your story involves you going from pagan to Christian. Some background details are nice.

I've seen the same tactic used where someone claims they practiced Judaism and then became a "completed Jew". When questioned about their Jewish background it becomes clear they either had no Jewish background to speak of or are flat out lying about it. Some think the ends justify the means. Yes, there are Jews who practiced Judaism that became Christians, I would not deny that. However, there are many willing to exaggerate or lie to push their agenda.

thegospelisoffensive said:

As for providing you with information with my paganism and sorcery I don't think its relevent,

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No, it's because you don't have any.

thegospelisoffensive said:

You obviously were part of Wicca outer circle

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Are you certain there's a Wicca inner circle? It looks like Wicca is entirely "outer circle" to me.


eudaimonia,

Mark

thegospelisoffensive said:

You obviously were part of Wicca outer circle, they could careless whether you stay or go, much like the outer ring of masonry, its just a boys club. As for providing you with information with my paganism and sorcery I don't think its relevent, and I have no intention of glamorizing satanic power, YES I know pagans and Wicca don't reconize satan, If you were to reach the top echelon of power, in both these religions you would find Lucifer, just as if you climbed the ladder in masonry, their all connected at the top, your just so far down at the bottom you can't see it. you fail to see the much bigger picture.

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Yeah? Prove it.

thegospelisoffensive said:

You obviously were part of Wicca outer circle, they could careless whether you stay or go, much like the outer ring of masonry, its just a boys club. As for providing you with information with my paganism and sorcery I don't think its relevent, and I have no intention of glamorizing satanic power, YES I know pagans and Wicca don't reconize satan, If you were to reach the top echelon of power, in both these religions you would find Lucifer, just as if you climbed the ladder in masonry, their all connected at the top, your just so far down at the bottom you can't see it. you fail to see the much bigger picture.

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You can stop trying to slander others beliefs now we know your were never a pagan.

thegospelisoffensive said:

You obviously were part of Wicca outer circle, they could careless whether you stay or go, much like the outer ring of masonry, its just a boys club. As for providing you with information with my paganism and sorcery I don't think its relevent, and I have no intention of glamorizing satanic power, YES I know pagans and Wicca don't reconize satan, If you were to reach the top echelon of power, in both these religions you would find Lucifer, just as if you climbed the ladder in masonry, their all connected at the top, your just so far down at the bottom you can't see it. you fail to see the much bigger picture.

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And...self-owned. Wicca has a three-degree system, no inner circle. The Golden Dawn and other hermetic orders have inner and outer courts, but Wicca is in or out.

The fact that you don't possess basic info is why people want details. Insisting that others are wrong without evidence isn't very convincing.

thegospelisoffensive said:

As for providing you with information with my paganism and sorcery I don't think its relevent

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Oh but it is, as has been pointed out both before and after this post of yours. Please go back and read what I wrote in post 78, and I'll sum it up here again...

You are not the first Christian to claim a pagan background, yet can provide no basic details about the dates as pagan, tradition practiced, and so on.

Instead of sharing an actual testimony, which I find most Christians are happy to do, you avoid questions and start to make some pretty outrageous claims - claims that you can't back up, claims that you have no evidence or even details for. Claims that you know more about paganism and what it "actually" is than the long time pagans on this forum - and claims that frankly make no sense.

So put yourself in our shoes, and you'll understand just why we want the details, why we find them relevant. Go back and read your own posts again, but replace paganism with Christianity. If someone told you your own story back to you, would you just accept it and leave Christianity? Would it shake your faith at all? Would you believe any of it? http://www.christianforums.com/t7561836-8/#post57552969

Eudaimonist said:

Are you certain there's a Wicca inner circle? It looks like Wicca is entirely "outer circle" to me.


eudaimonia,

Mark

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So does masonry doesn't it, there such a wholesome bunch, who doesn't love a free hospital for children, gotta hand it to the PR of the Masons, they know what their doing.