[Thread Moved] I have been faced with a very interesting question

[Chris O.]

Is God so powerful that he can create a rock that even he cannot lift?

 

[KnightsPaintball]

Haha I've heard this question a lot lately, the answer is no! God can not do anything that contradicts himself and his nature.. And that's your answer

 

[Chris O.]

But doesnt that contradict "unlimited power"? If he has unlimited power he should be able to do everything conceivable by the mind.

 

[Chris O.]

With unlimited power there should never be a "God can't do" statement. God should be able to do literally everything right? he does have unlimited power right?

 

[LWB]

Sure, why not?

God could incarnate his being into a frail body unable to lift its own head, let alone a mighty rock.

God as He knows Himself to be is something beyond we could ever hope to imagine. Whether spirits, for God is spirit, even have physical attributes such as we have, is open to speculation.

 

[Chris O.]

Regaurdless of himself reincarnating into a frail body, if he could not lift something in his natural being would that not prove that God has a limit? God should be able to do everything regaurdless of what being he is in however that statement shows that God must definitely have a limit if he is able to do everything. One must admit that everything would definitely include that 15 word statement. This has been baffling me because of the contradictions.

 

[KnightsPaintball]

Ok he COULD do this but he won't because it contradicts himself kthxbye haha

 

[LWB]

Rocks may only exist in this physical dimension we are familiar with. God in His natural being may be a non-physical entity.

The point of my response was that God isn't limited to one specific person who could or could not lift a rock. God transcends the very concept of being a single, limited person.

Paradoxes result from our limited perspective. God is outside the box.

 

[whatfor]

No , there is nothing impossible for God.

 

[Breaking Babylon]

God can create a rock so heavy that He couldn't lift it.

Then He would lift it.

It doesn't have to make sense to us logically, because discerning with the mind and discerning with the spirit are two different things -- the first is what we naturally do, the second is what God allows us to do.

There is no limit for God, there are only boxes that we try to logically place Him in.

Lifting an immovable rock is child play when one considers the Godhead, the Incarnation, the Resurrection, and so on.

 

[aldar]

Chris,

First of all... that question isn't logical so it fails from the beginning.
It uses an illogical query to evaluate the assumption of an illogical theory of God. That being that hes omnipotent.

God's mother was a virgin, he had no beginning... he makes no attempts to be logical and subject to the limits of your human logic. Your evaluating what would have to be beyond your ability to understand with a question that isn't logical to begin with.

Can an omnipotent being do something that creates an impossibility? That's what your asking.
You penalize an omnipotent being for not being able to create an impossibility? That doesn't make sense. The lack of being able to create an impossibility isn't an object or a situation, it's only an idea, a pipdream... a flawed one at that.

Either you have met and beleive in God or you don't, questions like these are not how to evaluate God. A GOD a being that has or is supposed to be able to construct and control and know every atom in the universe, that exists without a beginning or an end. Either you believe or you don't these questions aren't a functional way of knowing the nature of God.

 

[Chris O.]

Thanks for clearning that up, the next thing that bothered me was that in Matthew 5:18-19 it clearly says that the old testament cant be ignored. "For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven" it has been hard for me to call myself a christian because of this. I can't possibly call myself a christian if I am forced to believe all of the terrible laws of the old book.

 

[Chris O.]

Another thing, about the omnipotent, omniscience of God, if he is infinite and knows everything that has and will happen, wouldn't he have known that Lucifer would turn on him? Especially if Lucifer was his favorite angel, it seems he could have prevented that entire situation from the beginning if he knew what would happen anyway. It makes me feel like god will never get rid of the devil if he has known what the devil would do since the beginning. It gives Lucifer a kinda "partner" persona to him rather than making me feel like he is an enemy since God allows him to do whatever he wants anyway. I have been trying to analize this religion for years but have so many questions that remain unanswered that all seem to have loose ends to them.

 

[Johnnz]

Matthew: Jesus was a Jew, living under the Old Covenant, which he did perfectly and thus fulfilled its righteousness. He was not coming to abolish but to fulfil it. Upon His death and resurrection a New Covenant came into being, replacing the old one. That is what is meant by "until all is accomplished".

The word 'omniscience' is not found in Scripture. It is a philosophical construct in an attempt to describe the extent of God's knowledge. But for humans living with framework of space and time were are very limited in our ability to adequately comprehend or even conceptualise what it is like to not be bound by both of those dimensions. There are some aspects of the issue of Satan and evil we have not been told about. We will discover more about that in another time.

John
NZ

 

[Chris O.]

It can't possibly be accomplished yet because of the "till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished" statement. As far as im concerned heaven and earth are still in the same place Jesus left them so my understanding is that until something happens with these two places the old testament is still meant to be followed.

 

[LWB]

My understanding is that Jesus is talking about the ten commandments given to Moses, rather than the various ordinances that may have developed later. If you are referring to the harsh penalties reserved for those who broke the law, like children who disobeyed their parents; mercy can be shown to such without relaxing the law. It is important to bear in mind the cultural context of Old Testament values when comparing them to modern sensibilities.

I can only speculate regarding the relationship between God and Lucifer. There is probably more to the picture than meets the eye. Had it not been for the rebellious angel and his plan to thwart Creation, none of us, not even the highest arch angels, may have known the depths of God's compassion and love.

 

[aldar]

Chris,

Your next inquiries concern the mechanics of God, not the legitimacy of God. Questions like this require learning, not an option of choosing to believe or not. These issues don't concern whether or not God is real, they concern why he did or did not do things. I don't see how you could really choose to not be a christian based simply on the fact that you don't understand/like something about him, that wouldn't deny the existence or God, hell...stuff like that. It only creates an oppurtunity and obligation to learn more.

About his Omniscience.
As has already been stated some christians do not beleive that word means what some think it does. There are several moments in the bible where God seemed surprised, regretful etc... which seem to imply that there are things he does not know such as the inanimate future actions or choices of people.

Jeremiah 19.5 and surrounding context means this for some people.
"nor did it enter my mind" Some people say this means God said he did not know they would do these evil deeds.
God seemed to regret making man when they sinned in Genesis. God came down and seemed to ask Adam where he was in Genesis. God came down to see if the cry coming up from the blood was true in Genesis.

Whether or not these verses mean these things is highly debated by scholars and prophecy experts. But it's an idea.

Also read the book of Romans, Paul talks specificly concerning the fullfillment of certain old testament laws and the basis upon whereby we are actually saved and the overwhelming theme that evolves is fullfillment and grace.

You have alot of studying to do, not a decision to make concerning your christianity. You seem to beleive God is real and his name is Jesus... if this is true you have no choice, just alot of learning to do.

 

[LWB]

It would probably be boring to know everything, so maybe that is why God manifests as different persons. God the Father may possess omniscience, but God the Son not so.

To manifest as a person who can walk in the Garden of Eden is to accept certain limitations. An embodied manifestation of God cannot be omnipresent at least. So why not accept all the limitations of the flesh, to feel and experience just as man does? Perhaps God finds limitation fun, just like we would find the powers of Superman fun.

The Garden of Eden, and the visits to Abraham, seem to be examples of God coming into the world as a physical agent. I would think it was the Word of God, the Lord Jesus, who was this visitor.

So if the Son knows not all, like the date for the end of history for example, perhaps there are many things He does not know. Rather than a handicap, this is a pleasure for Him. Surprise is one thing God the Father may not be able to experience, but God the Son can.

 

[Johnnz]

It can't possibly be accomplished yet because of the "till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished" statement. As far as im concerned heaven and earth are still in the same place Jesus left them so my understanding is that until something happens with these two places the old testament is still meant to be followed.

There was a literary genre used by the ancients, including Jewish writers, called apocalypse, which used dramatic imagery. We see this illustrated at Pentecost where Peter quoted from Joel:
Acts 2:19-20 I will show wonders in the heaven above and signs on the earth below, blood and fire and billows of smoke. 20 The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord. NIV

None of those physical phenomena occurred on that day. The phrase 'heaven and earth' is in similar vein, expressing the concept that the law will remain until the Creator God decides otherwise.

John
NZ

 

[SoldierOfSoul]

Is God so powerful that he can create a rock that even he cannot lift?

This is a self defeating statement that has been refuted hundreds of times in apologetic history over the years. Not worth the time.