Thread About Rechristianizing Europe

[RiverSalado]

Hi, I just wanted to create a thread where people can discuss possible ways to rechristianize Europe, where Christianity is in a decline, and where liberalism and what some people see as decadence is widespread, can you people think of any ways how this can be achieved, and how Europe can be made to be conservative again, like it was before the 1960's? Is the rechristianization of Europe even possible, or is it a lost cause in your people's opinion?

 

[Maccie]

Well, for a start, perhaps I had better point our that "Europe" is not one country, but a whole host of different countries, with different cultures and histories.

France, Spain, Italy and the southern part of Germany are, for instance, historically Roman Catholic. As is the southern half of Belgium, Eire and parts of Scotland.

Northern Germany, the Netherlands, England, and parts of Scotland, Northern Ireland, plus Norway and Sweden, are basically Protestant, ranging from Lutheran to Presbyterian to Anglican.

Poland is RC. Greece, parts of the Balkans, most of Russia are Orthodox. Parts of the Balkans are Moslem.

Now, to go into the various parts of Europe, saying we are not "Christian" enough, and telling us we should be "conservative", but which I imagine you mean fundamentalist, is simply going to be counter-productive.

Protestantism, to RC countries, is a cult. Protestants and Catholics have been at each other's throats in a bloody war in Scotland and Ireland for centuries.

Perhaps you should consider the history of Europe before you, or anyone else for that matter, goes diving in and telling us what to do.

Most churches and denominations in Europe, especially in the Protestant countries are well aware of the problems and are doing something about it.

What we do not want is USA-style fundamentalism brought over here, thank you very much. there is already too much of it.

 

[carrymeaway06]

Perhaps you should consider the history of Europe before you, or anyone else for that matter, goes diving in and telling us what to do.

Most churches and denominations in Europe, especially in the Protestant countries are well aware of the problems and are doing something about it.

What we do not want is USA-style fundamentalism brought over here, thank you very much. there is already too much of it.

We aren't Christian in the us either. I WISH and HOPE and PRAY that one day we will be at least half the christians europe is.

We're tolerant here.... uncool man. That's why we're being attacked by terrorists... that's why we have gays attacking the marriage system... ya know.... it's just messed up. for that to even be thought of has a ring of judgement to it.

 

[RiverSalado]

Well I really think that you are confusing conservative Christians with Fundamentalists, Conservative christians, for example, believe in evolution, although they are agianst abortion and homosexuality, like the Pope is, while fundamentalists believe that the world was created in 7 days, while also being against abortion and homosexuality, so there is a difference here, and when I say Europe being rechristianized, I mean Europe being more conservative, not Cathoilics and Protestamts going at each other's throats again, if you look at the doctrines of say, conservative Catholics, Protestants, and Eastern Orthodox, you will find that they have a lot of similarities as well, if your churches are doing something about the problem of secularism in Europe, I sure am not seeing a lot of success, since church attendance in Western Europe is abyssmal.

 

[Maccie]

So you want liberal Christians to become conservative, as defined by you? You want your version of Christianity to be spread across Europe?

I still maintain that one size does not fit all. You still have to believe that we are many different countries here, not just different versions of the same thing.

And maybe the decline in church attendance says more about chuches than Christianity?

 

[Ave Maria]

Maybe we should send some missionaries over there. It'd be nice to have a lot of saints come out of Europe again.

 

[carrymeaway06]

I personally think this thread is wrong.

Why on earth do people think they have a right to tell one continent that they are any less christian than another continent???? Who are you?


I for one do not attend church any longer because Christians in the united states are beyond judgemental
and just plain evil a good deal of the time. I've met few genuine Christians with a genuine love for others, saved and unsaved. People think they can be high and mighty by deciding who needs God yet and who already has Him.

I think EVERY country should have missionaries from other countries. EVEN those who have a high rate of Christian population. Just simply to aid in unifying the Body of Christ. No one county is better than the other in Christ, HOWEVER I do wish we all had extreme persecution and were under threat of capture and execution every day. WHY??? Because Christians living in those nations are stronger, they adore their God more, and they live every day for Him.

We can pray for areas in Europe... yeah sure, send missionaries... They're sending missionaries to the US so does that tell you anything? I've met a great many German missionaries to the US (along with Missionaries from a many other countries, ministering here in the US)... Tells me we have problems.

Take the log out of your eye before trying to take the speck out of your brothers... you might end up gouging it out with the tweezers cause you've been blinded.

- SM Carry Me Away

 

[RiverSalado]

Well I think the refrain that one should not judge others because we all commit wrong is not only overused, it is illogical, think about it, if the only one who has the right to punish wrongdoing is someone who has a completely clean slate, then what will happen to the justice system, does that mean that a judge who has beaten a red light the pervious night has no right try someone who is being tried for possession of drugs, because he too is not completely law abiding, since that is what you are getting at in your post. And if someone who judges what others is doing as wrong is judgemental, then does that mean that you should not tell someone to stop smoking because doing so will be judgemental? The problem often times is that people use the excuse of let those who have not sin cast the first stone to protect themeselves from being criticized for their behivior.

 

[Maccie]

And if someone who judges what others is doing as wrong is judgemental, then does that mean that you should not tell someone to stop smoking because doing so will be judgemental?

This is where so many Christians make themselves look so judgemental, and turn non-Christians off.

No, you do not go and tell someone to stop smoking! You discuss with them the pros and cons. You point out, in a non-personal way, the medical reasons for not smoking, and the different ways of combating stress and addiction.

And you can only do this if you have a fairly close relationship with them.

After all that, you have to leave it to them. Unless they are under-age children smoking, then they are adults and able to make their own choices. Laws have been passed in the UK to prevent people smoking in public places, which is as it should be - non-smokers do not wish to be forced to smoke second-hand smoke. More and more places are smoker-free, which again, is as it should be. There are offers of help all over the place for those who want to give up.

But if someone still wants to smoke, that is their choice, and they may do so at home.

It is the same with sin. You simply do not go up to a non-Christian and tell them they are "sinning". Their answer will, quite rightly, probably be "so what? What the **** has it got to do with you??"

There are layers and layers of sin in all of us. You might think, that when you first become a Christian, that all your sins are forgiven. Well, they are, but as you mature, you will see how sinful you truly are, and that "sin" is not a matter of things you do, or don't do, but your attitude towards God and life and other people.

 

[RiverSalado]

This is where so many Christians make themselves look so judgemental, and turn non-Christians off.

No, you do not go and tell someone to stop smoking! You discuss with them the pros and cons. You point out, in a non-personal way, the medical reasons for not smoking, and the different ways of combating stress and addiction.

And you can only do this if you have a fairly close relationship with them.

After all that, you have to leave it to them. Unless they are under-age children smoking, then they are adults and able to make their own choices. Laws have been passed in the UK to prevent people smoking in public places, which is as it should be - non-smokers do not wish to be forced to smoke second-hand smoke. More and more places are smoker-free, which again, is as it should be. There are offers of help all over the place for those who want to give up.

But if someone still wants to smoke, that is their choice, and they may do so at home.

It is the same with sin. You simply do not go up to a non-Christian and tell them they are "sinning". Their answer will, quite rightly, probably be "so what? What the **** has it got to do with you??"

There are layers and layers of sin in all of us. You might think, that when you first become a Christian, that all your sins are forgiven. Well, they are, but as you mature, you will see how sinful you truly are, and that "sin" is not a matter of things you do, or don't do, but your attitude towards God and life and other people.

I take it the surgeon general's warning and the WHO's advisory's are judgemental then according to your logic? Since the surgeon generaland the WHO cannot be classified as being close to you in most cases when they politely advise a person to stop smoking, my point is, that people have the right to politely tell someone that he is making a mistake, without that someone or another person, throwing a hissy fit like a nine year old, and screaming, you are a judgemental bastard, when all that person did was to tell that person in a civil and polite manner to reconsider his decision.

 

[Maccie]

politely advise

Those are the important words. You talked about "telling" someone to stop smoking. Like I've heard so many fundamentalist Christians talk about "telling" people they are going to hell.

If you didn't mean it that strongly, then I apologise. But there is a considerable difference between telling someone to stop doing something, and politely advising them to do so.

 

[RiverSalado]

Those are the important words. You talked about "telling" someone to stop smoking. Like I've heard so many fundamentalist Christians talk about "telling" people they are going to hell.

If you didn't mean it that strongly, then I apologise. But there is a considerable difference between telling someone to stop doing something, and politely advising them to do so.

I guess it must be down to the meaning of words then, in my vocabulary, I use the words advise and tell pretty much interchangeably, it all goes down to semantics.

 

[Maccie]

guess it must be down to the meaning of words then, in my vocabulary, I use the words advise and tell pretty much interchangeably, it all goes down to semantics.

And when your mother told you to go and tidy your room, was she "politely advising you"?

 

[carrymeaway06]

I take it the surgeon general's warning and the WHO's advisory's are judgemental then according to your logic? Since the surgeon generaland the WHO cannot be classified as being close to you in most cases when they politely advise a person to stop smoking, my point is, that people have the right to politely tell someone that he is making a mistake, without that someone or another person, throwing a hissy fit like a nine year old, and screaming, you are a judgemental bastard, when all that person did was to tell that person in a civil and polite manner to reconsider his decision.

No. The surgeon general's warning doesn't say stop smoking. It gives you FACTS. FACTS that say smoking is dangerous to your health. It doesn't tell you STOP smioking anymore than McDonald's lid tells you to STOP drinking hot coffee.

What we are saying is you have no right to turn around and judge an entire continent by telling them they need to be "rechristenized". That is wrong. You don't live there and you cannot decide what the spiritual status of those countries are based on polls. These polls only speak to certain amounts of people and draw information from certain groups of people. Just because church attendance is down in Switzerland doesn't mean the swiss are suddenly not "Christian enough".

 

[Rusticus]

The word "neo-colonialism" does come to mind.

 

[chocolatecheesecake]

forget countries. think about people, may the love of Christ fill you so that you be moved with compassion for the hurting and for the lost. I dont want to see australia become a christian island (yes australia is a really big island hehehe) i want to see humanity turn to Jesus. I dont care what church a person goes to, all i care about is Jesus and the gospel of His name. so really, pray to be filled with the Holy Spirit and get out there and tell people in truth about Jesus, i do not mean about your church or the doctrine i mean Jesus, as in God who died for our sins. its all about love, if you want to see things change then pray, pray for the will of God to be done and then go fullfil what Jesus has asked of us, and remember that your are not alone, even for a second, for Jesus is with you always through the Holy Spirit. yeah, love compassion, thats where its at my friends.

Peace of Christ be with u.

 

[J21]

Hi all!
I know that
"He has the whole world, in His hands..."
but I know too that He wants not just Europe turning back to Him but ,
"He wants the whole world, turning back to Him..the whole world, turning back to Him...".
The whole world needs re-Christ-ianizing...not just Europe.
That's the people in the house next door to us; the kids in the school down the street; the workers in their offices in your city; the check-out chick at the supermarket...no matter what country we live in...He wants them all. No one country over another...everyone, everywhere.
IMHAussieO