Thoughts on transgender issues

[theoneandonlypencil]

Edit: Some discourse has happened on this thread, which was not intended. I'll say this--if you're thinking of replying solely for the fact of 'proving someone wrong' or arguing, you are not welcome in this thread, I'm sorry. This thread is for taking a look at other perspectives, sharing ideas, friendly debates and learning; it is not an 'anti this/that' battleground.


So, due to another thread posted, I wanted to share some thoughts on the whole 'transgender' thing going on in the world as of late.

First off, to clarify, obviously I am not for transitioning as a medical means to cure dysphoria. I believe gender dysphoria should be classed as a mental disorder(as it rightfully was in the DSM, until recently which I understand was likely due to pressure and not any medical advancements in the subject)and, personally, I think working towards a less extreme cure that involved helping the brain to become synchronized with the body's biological sex would be the ideal goal. I cannot stress this; a cure that involves holding other non-affiliated people responsible, sometimes legally, for going along with it(I.E. knowingly referring to someone as the sex that they are not)is unhelpful and completely unconstitutional.

However, I also do realize that the way we treat these people could also be harmful. Certainly, if I was struggling with gender dysphoria, the last thing I'd want is people harassing me for something in my brain that I cannot control. On the flip side, I don't think transitioning should be encouraged as the de-facto cure either. I think diagnosing gender dysphoria could use a lot more guidelines in deciding who is suffering from it, especially for children as 80-95% of pre-pubescent children with gender dysphoria tend to pass through it by late adolescence.

I also wonder the actual percentage of trans people who de-transition. I remember watching a documentary a while back on it that didn't give many conclusive answers. Then again, this also may be hard to factor since--overall--trans people haven't even been that prevalent for a full generation yet, so we're still actually observing the turn out of all of this.

On the subject of trans people entering sex-appropriate spaces, I really don't think there's anything to be helped there other than to have gender nonconforming/transgender exclusive areas(such as bathrooms and prisons)so that while trans people can safely enter these areas, those who are a member of the opposite biological sex do not need to feel uncomfortable sharing an intimate space with them. After all, I see a lot of sympathy for the trans community, but what about a woman who has have trauma or have been sexually assaulted by men? Do they need to worry about sharing even bathrooms with them now?

Of course, it's easy to say 'trans people are just like the gender they identify as', but put into practice I can't say it's that black-and-white. You yourself will never fully fool yourself into believing you're the opposite sex, and you will always wear the 'transgender' label. It's unavoidable, as such information is absolutely a necessity with things such as medical procedures or in relationships. Not all trans people 'pass' either, and there are many who look quite androgynous. Having illustrated these issues, how is one simply supposed to 'deal with it' and treat them as if they're something they're not? What might not seem like a big issue to one person may be of significance to another, and trans people being a minority is no excuse to make their discomforts/problems priority over others'.

Now, on the hand of what IS going on in the trans community; I have been notified that rates of suicide, violence and poverty are much higher than other communities. I cannot what this is because of since I cannot evaluate each individual case, but if this is true, even if I don't agree with trans people on an ideological level I do think it's very important we help protect them when they need it. Nobody should be targetted for violence, and if there are provable cases of trans people being declined necessities of medical service and employment based solely on the fact that they are trans, then that needs to stop as well. Although having said that, I urge doctors and psychologists to find out whether or not these issues are because of side-effects to transgenderism or if they're societal issues. I feel as though there has been very little unbiased documentation on this disorder, and I urge people to push for truth and not an agenda from any side.

I also hope that those who support trans people will do their job in preserving the community's image, and not ignoring any wrongdoings just because one holds the label 'trans'. It does not help the group's image, and pointing fingers at other people simply makes the trans community look worse and reinforces stigma.

Finally, if you know any trans people personally, do be kind and remember their life is not yours and they still deserve respect. They are very mentally frail people from what I can tell(considering how many suffer from mental illness other than gender dysphoria), and you shouldn't try to beat them down or pressure them into conforming in order to help them. I agree that an honest conversation on the seriousness and ramifications on transitioning can be appropriate and well-meaning if you care about the person, but there's no need to berate anyone about it either. Even if it was demonstrably provable that transitioning was not helpful and had negative effects on society, nobody is going to look at your perspective if you're a jerk about it. Be considerate. Trans people are already being taken advantage of as a political tool, and could really use more people that care about the mental illness itself rather than any political/societal views on it.

I don't know what to say about pronouns other than I disagree that it should be legally punishable to use the wrong pronouns, but I also think it is courteous and I don't particularly feel convicted about it in a religious sense.

If anyone has any points to add, feel free to do so in the replies section. I may add onto this later.

 

[High Fidelity]

Certainly, if I was struggling with gender dysphoria, the last thing I'd want is people harassing me for something in my brain that I cannot control.

Well, we see and will continue to see this with homosexuality. It's not a choice and yet people are hounded, battered and murdered for it.

The main problem we have is forcing our opinion or beliefs on others, expecting conformity.

If people worried about their own problems and their own self-improvement then we'd live in a better world but unfortunately that isn't going to happen, at least not for several generations.

 

[theoneandonlypencil]

Well, we see and will continue to see this with homosexuality. It's not a choice and yet people are hounded, battered and murdered for it.

The main problem we have is forcing our opinion or beliefs on others, expecting conformity.

If people worried about their own problems and their own self-improvement then we'd live in a better world but unfortunately that isn't going to happen, at least not for several generations.

Obviously I don't advocate harassing gay people either, but I think generally disagreements over homosexuality--excluding the act of taking their rights away--is more understandable since being gay isn't classified as a mental illness, unlike transgenderism. It's a sexual preference and more of a general 'abnormality', I suppose.

But about forcing opinion and beliefs on others--it goes both ways. I see a lot of that on both sides, and unfortunately not a lot of acknowledge of this fact on both sides. I think a lot of people are looking for an 'I'm right!' instead of a solution to meet the needs and rights of both parties.

 

[Carl Emerson]

For me the tricky part is that a component of the disorder is spiritual.

Secular professionals are ill equipped to deal with this.

The Church is generally disempowered to deal with this.

The LGBT community has a brilliant PR machine that has successfully convinced most that it is genetic.

From this standpoint they demand free medical interventions at will.

What a mess.

Do we love those caught up in this - of course.

 

[Quartermaine]

For me the tricky part is that a component of the disorder is spiritual.

Secular professionals are ill equipped to deal with this.

The Church is generally disempowered to deal with this.

The LGBT community has a brilliant PR machine that has successfully convinced most that it is genetic.

yeah those horrible nasty gays using facts and decades of research. Shame on them

From this standpoint they demand free medical interventions at will.

just what is being demanded?

What a mess.

Do we love those caught up in this - of course.

i doubt any of what you are saying woudl be taken as ai sign of love by anyone.

 

[Quartermaine]

So, due to another thread posted, I wanted to share some thoughts on the whole 'transgender' thing going on in the world as of late.

First off, to clarify, obviously I am not for transitioning as a medical means to cure dysphoria. I believe gender dysphoria should be classed as a mental disorder(as it rightfully was in the DSM, until recently which I understand was likely due to pressure and not any medical advancements in the subject)and, personally,

Various anti-gay groups have made the same claims about homosexuality as a mental disease for years. it hinges on demonstrable evidence.

Your position brings up an interesting quandary. Medical transitioning is largely plastic surgery. how can somehting that is fixed by plastic surgery be a mental illness?

think working towards a less extreme cure that involved helping the brain to become synchronized with the body's biological sex would be the ideal goal. I cannot stress this; a cure that involves holding other non-affiliated people responsible, sometimes legally, for going along with it(I.E. knowingly referring to someone as the sex that they are not)is unhelpful and completely unconstitutional.

who is doing this to you?

However, I also do realize that the way we treat these people could also be harmful. Certainly, if I was struggling with gender dysphoria, the last thing I'd want is people harassing me for something in my brain that I cannot control. On the flip side, I don't think transitioning should be encouraged as the de-facto cure either. I think diagnosing gender dysphoria could use a lot more guidelines in deciding who is suffering from it, especially for children as 80-95% of pre-pubescent children with gender dysphoria tend to pass through it by late adolescence.

Those numbers come from the american College of Pediatricians, not the American Academy of Pediatrics. They are based on some pretty heavy junk science specifically papers written and self published by the ACP. One gets its numbers by listing any child referred to a specialist to determine if they actually have gender dysphoria. They were never diagnosed with GD in the first place but counted as those who "outgrew" it. The second paper involves misrepresenting the use of puberty blockers in the treatment of GD. almost all children prescribed puberty blockers take them because of precocious puberty, puberty starting as early as age 5. So most children who end treatment with puberty blockers show no sign of gender dysphoria after puberty because they didn't have it in the first place.

 

[Amittai]

yeah those horrible nasty gays using facts and decades of research. Shame on them

just what is being demanded?

i doubt any of what you are saying would be taken as a sign of love by anyone.

What worries me is the dynamics among all parties. In my young day blokes and girls had a far wider range of sterotypes. There are certainly elegant ways of being flamboyant, or non-flamboyant, and I'm sure we didn't worry whether our hobbies were chic.

Churches that abandoned belief helped and loved no-one, insiders or outsiders. I think it was secular-minded individuals, given excessive authority within their field (Reich or Kinsey) that blew "orientation" out of proportion earlier in the century. Chastity within all relationships will only show as such when accompanied by the other virtues as well.

The Vatican doesn't actually have a "pastoral category" of "persons".

Just because it's wrong to talk about people's anatomy, now gives provocateurs an entree, whose use the ordinary young folks as human shields. Quartermaine, I didn't think of you as a provocateur. I don't think it good for either Christians or non-Christians to be subjugated to monoliths.

 

[Carl Emerson]

yeah those horrible nasty gays using facts and decades of research. Shame on them

just what is being demanded?

i doubt any of what you are saying woudl be taken as ai sign of love by anyone.

I guess you have to say that without any knowledge of my history.

 

[theoneandonlypencil]

Various anti-gay groups have made the same claims about homosexuality as a mental disease for years. it hinges on demonstrable evidence.

Your position brings up an interesting quandary. Medical transitioning is largely plastic surgery. how can somehting that is fixed by plastic surgery be a mental illness?

Body dysmorphia comes to mind. Even though I'm not sure amputation has been put forward as a productive method to 'solve' the mental issue, I think it parallels gender dysphoria well. Furthermore, I do agree that gender dysphoria has a biological component--that being the brain does not match the patterns of the body and its sex. Even still, medical issues or mental illness, I advise against promoting transitioning as the main course of action and would urge scientists to further study the condition--mental and physical parts--in order to see if there's equally effective but less drastic options available.

who is doing this to you?

Apparently, the Vancouver Police were fined by the human rights tribunal for misgendering a trans woman by using her birth name and male pronouns instead of her preferred name and pronouns. That is first and foremost reason for me to be concerned of what the future might be like. Second, it's not unknown that refusing to address someone by their preferred pronouns can not only get you fired, but socially shunned and/or banned from college campuses.

If you have evidence to the contrary, please do show me as it would soothe a great deal of my concern to know whether or not I should worry about getting fired at any point should I ever share my views on transgenderism.

Those numbers come from the american College of Pediatricians, not the American Academy of Pediatrics. They are based on some pretty heavy junk science specifically papers written and self published by the ACP. One gets its numbers by listing any child referred to a specialist to determine if they actually have gender dysphoria. They were never diagnosed with GD in the first place but counted as those who "outgrew" it. The second paper involves misrepresenting the use of puberty blockers in the treatment of GD. almost all children prescribed puberty blockers take them because of precocious puberty, puberty starting as early as age 5. So most children who end treatment with puberty blockers show no sign of gender dysphoria after puberty because they didn't have it in the first place.

Interesting. If indeed that is true, then, perhaps it is just harder overall to diagnose children with GD? It would make sense, anyways.

 

[KCfromNC]

i doubt any of what you are saying woudl be taken as ai sign of love by anyone.

Yeah, seriously. I'd imagine that most would rather just be left alone rather than subjected to the kind of "love" we seen in threads like this.

I mean, seriously, unless this is something one is personally dealing with this, it really comes off as a bunch of pointless meddling in other people's personal lives.

Would Christians really care about my random opinions on people who are "transitioning" into the faith? That's kinda what this reads like - outsiders with no real knowledge offering up their guesses as if it mean anything.

 

[Quartermaine]

I guess you have to say that without any knowledge of my history.

I'm saying it based on your post.

 

[Ken-1122]

So, due to another thread posted, I wanted to share some thoughts on the whole 'transgender' thing going on in the world as of late.

First off, to clarify, obviously I am not for transitioning as a medical means to cure dysphoria. I believe gender dysphoria should be classed as a mental disorder(as it rightfully was in the DSM, until recently which I understand was likely due to pressure and not any medical advancements in the subject)and, personally, I think working towards a less extreme cure that involved helping the brain to become synchronized with the body's biological sex would be the ideal goal. I cannot stress this; a cure that involves holding other non-affiliated people responsible, sometimes legally, for going along with it(I.E. knowingly referring to someone as the sex that they are not)is unhelpful and completely unconstitutional.

However, I also do realize that the way we treat these people could also be harmful. Certainly, if I was struggling with gender dysphoria, the last thing I'd want is people harassing me for something in my brain that I cannot control. On the flip side, I don't think transitioning should be encouraged as the de-facto cure either. I think diagnosing gender dysphoria could use a lot more guidelines in deciding who is suffering from it, especially for children as 80-95% of pre-pubescent children with gender dysphoria tend to pass through it by late adolescence.

I also wonder the actual percentage of trans people who de-transition. I remember watching a documentary a while back on it that didn't give many conclusive answers. Then again, this also may be hard to factor since--overall--trans people haven't even been that prevalent for a full generation yet, so we're still actually observing the turn out of all of this.

On the subject of trans people entering sex-appropriate spaces, I really don't think there's anything to be helped there other than to have gender nonconforming/transgender exclusive areas(such as bathrooms and prisons)so that while trans people can safely enter these areas, those who are a member of the opposite biological sex do not need to feel uncomfortable sharing an intimate space with them. After all, I see a lot of sympathy for the trans community, but what about a woman who has have trauma or have been sexually assaulted by men? Do they need to worry about sharing even bathrooms with them now?

Of course, it's easy to say 'trans people are just like the gender they identify as', but put into practice I can't say it's that black-and-white. You yourself will never fully fool yourself into believing you're the opposite sex, and you will always wear the 'transgender' label. It's unavoidable, as such information is absolutely a necessity with things such as medical procedures or in relationships. Not all trans people 'pass' either, and there are many who look quite androgynous. Having illustrated these issues, how is one simply supposed to 'deal with it' and treat them as if they're something they're not? What might not seem like a big issue to one person may be of significance to another, and trans people being a minority is no excuse to make their discomforts/problems priority over others'.

Now, on the hand of what IS going on in the trans community; I have been notified that rates of suicide, violence and poverty are much higher than other communities. I cannot what this is because of since I cannot evaluate each individual case, but if this is true, even if I don't agree with trans people on an ideological level I do think it's very important we help protect them when they need it. Nobody should be targetted for violence, and if there are provable cases of trans people being declined necessities of medical service and employment based solely on the fact that they are trans, then that needs to stop as well. Although having said that, I urge doctors and psychologists to find out whether or not these issues are because of side-effects to transgenderism or if they're societal issues. I feel as though there has been very little unbiased documentation on this disorder, and I urge people to push for truth and not an agenda from any side.

I also hope that those who support trans people will do their job in preserving the community's image, and not ignoring any wrongdoings just because one holds the label 'trans'. It does not help the group's image, and pointing fingers at other people simply makes the trans community look worse and reinforces stigma.

Finally, if you know any trans people personally, do be kind and remember their life is not yours and they still deserve respect. They are very mentally frail people from what I can tell(considering how many suffer from mental illness other than gender dysphoria), and you shouldn't try to beat them down or pressure them into conforming in order to help them. I agree that an honest conversation on the seriousness and ramifications on transitioning can be appropriate and well-meaning if you care about the person, but there's no need to berate anyone about it either. Even if it was demonstrably provable that transitioning was not helpful and had negative effects on society, nobody is going to look at your perspective if you're a jerk about it. Be considerate. Trans people are already being taken advantage of as a political tool, and could really use more people that care about the mental illness itself rather than any political/societal views on it.

I don't know what to say about pronouns other than I disagree that it should be legally punishable to use the wrong pronouns, but I also think it is courteous and I don't particularly feel convicted about it in a religious sense.

If anyone has any points to add, feel free to do so in the replies section. I may add onto this later.

I think the biggest problem I see with this is when they insist others comply with their delusion and pretend they are what they believe they are. I see this as akin to a Christian who believes Jesus is the Christ, and insists non-believers to act as if; or at least pretend that Jesus is the Christ when in their presence.

 

[Quartermaine]

Body dysmorphia comes to mind. Even though I'm not sure amputation has been put forward as a productive method to 'solve' the mental issue, I think it parallels gender dysphoria well.

not well at all. they symptoms are quite different and studies of individuals with body dysphoria who have has surgeries don't find any relief.

Furthermore, I do agree that gender dysphoria has a biological component--that being the brain does not match the patterns of the body and its sex. Even still, medical issues or mental illness, I advise against promoting transitioning as the main course of action and would urge scientists to further study the condition--mental and physical parts--in order to see if there's equally effective but less drastic options available.

who says its the main course of action?

Apparently, the Vancouver Police were fined by the human rights tribunal for misgendering a trans woman by using her birth name and male pronouns instead of her preferred name and pronouns. That is first and foremost reason for me to be concerned of what the future might be like.

In regards to names and pronouns the B.C. Human Rights Tribunal ruled Vancouver Police needed to "find better ways to deal with transgender people" the fine was not for this. The fine applied to the police involved recent a post surgery transsexual who was denied access to her medical equipment to do her own post surgery care during an overnight jail stay.

Second, it's not unknown that refusing to address someone by their preferred pronouns can not only get you fired, but socially shunned and/or banned from college campuses.


If you have evidence to the contrary, please do show me as it would soothe a great deal of my concern to know whether or not I should worry about getting fired at any point should I ever share my views on transgenderism.

Not doing so sounds like bullying to me. I don't know where you work but if bullied people on the job my career would be in danger too.

Interesting. If indeed that is true, then, perhaps it is just harder overall to diagnose children with GD? It would make sense, anyways.

The children were just referred to specialists for diagnosis and those were wrongfully said to have been diagnosed to pump up the numbers for the agenda based research.

 

[theoneandonlypencil]

Yeah, seriously. I'd imagine that most would rather just be left alone rather than subjected to the kind of "love" we seen in threads like this.

I mean, seriously, unless this is something one is personally dealing with this, it really comes off as a bunch of pointless meddling in other people's personal lives.

Would Christians really care about my random opinions on people who are "transitioning" into the faith? That's kinda what this reads like - outsiders with no real knowledge offering up their guesses as if it mean anything.

Consider this; what are the difference between the social and legal ramifications of 1. Not referring to a trans person by their preferred pronouns/'deadnaming' them and 2. Telling a Christian that they're 'delusional and their magical sky daddy doesn't exist'.

I'll give you a hint...one of these happens way more often than the other, and it is ignored/borderline encouraged at times unlike the former which has VERY serious ramifications.

If nothing was being forced of me, I would not mind the community as much. However, as long as I'm made involved with the situation by having certain things demanded of me, I have every right to weigh in on the situation.

Even then, as I've stated before, I still care about the community on a fundamental level and wish doctors could find a way to alleviate GD without having to use such drastic means that also happen to disrupt people other than the person suffering from GD.

 

[theoneandonlypencil]

not well at all. they symptoms are quite different and studies of individuals with body dysphoria who have has surgeries don't find any relief.

The only reason I said it was a good parallel was because both involve mental issues with one's body and to illustrate the point that some such mental illnesses have biological triggers, since you asked how it could be a mental illness of it involved surgery as a solution.

who says its the main course of action?

Perhaps I've been wrong, since to my understanding social and medical transitioning have been claimed to be the only effective means of alleviating GD. If you have resources on alternatives, I'd love to hear about them to do some reading.

In regards to names and pronouns the B.C. Human Rights Tribunal ruled Vancouver Police needed to "find better ways to deal with transgender people" the fine was not for this. The fine applied to the police involved recent a post surgery transsexual who was denied access to her medical equipment to do her own post surgery care during an overnight jail stay.

Interesting. Thank you for putting more context into place, although my worry still remains about whether or not in the future actual legal consequences will be imposed for this kind of thing.

Not doing so sounds like bullying to me. I don't know where you work but if bullied people on the job my career would be in danger too.

Bullying is about intent. If an atheist walks up to me and said "hey, God doesn't exist and I think your religion is bad" I cannot in good conscience go and try to report that person for 'bullying'. There are legitimate religious and ideological grounds to not feel comfortable referring to someone as their preferred pronouns, and if done respectfully that should not be taken as bullying.

The children were just referred to specialists for diagnosis and those were wrongfully said to have been diagnosed to pump up the numbers for the agenda based research.

Noted. Will research later.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Yeah, seriously. I'd imagine that most would rather just be left alone rather than subjected to the kind of "love" we seen in threads like this.

I mean, seriously, unless this is something one is personally dealing with this, it really comes off as a bunch of pointless meddling in other people's personal lives.

Would Christians really care about my random opinions on people who are "transitioning" into the faith? That's kinda what this reads like - outsiders with no real knowledge offering up their guesses as if it mean anything.

Given that this is a reference to my quote, we have had quite some close personal dealings with this issue.

 

[Quartermaine]

The only reason I said it was a good parallel was because both involve mental issues with one's body and to illustrate the point that some such mental illnesses have biological triggers, since you asked how it could be a mental illness of it involved surgery as a solution.

which is still a question awaiting an answer

Perhaps I've been wrong, since to my understanding social and medical transitioning have been claimed to be the only effective means of alleviating GD. If you have resources on alternatives, I'd love to hear about them to do some reading.

the AMA has adopted the Standard of Care Guidelines published by The World Professional Association for Transgender Health and most hospitals strictly adhere to the guidelines. the guidelines include a long commitment to therapy prior to even starting any medical transitioning. The guide suggests caution when it comes to encouraging medical transitioning.

Bullying is about intent. If an atheist walks up to me and said "hey, God doesn't exist and I think your religion is bad" I cannot in good conscience go and try to report that person for 'bullying'. There are legitimate religious and ideological grounds to not feel comfortable referring to someone as their preferred pronouns, and if done respectfully that should not be taken as bullying.

isn't the use of a preferred pronoun respectful?

 

[MehGuy]

I don't know what to say about pronouns other than I disagree that it should be legally punishable to use the wrong pronouns, but I also think it is courteous and I don't particularly feel convicted about it in a religious sense.

If anyone has any points to add, feel free to do so in the replies section. I may add onto this later.

Well, not all trans people think alike. Some are patient and kind and open to honest thoughts from others, while others are demanding and resort in peer pressure in an effort to bully others into conformity. I do not feel like it is right to demand someone call a man a woman if they only see a man and vice versa. You're basically telling others to be dishonest in order to comfort other people's feelings. This seems hollow. I have talked to pro-trans cis people before, and many have confided secretly with me that the issues of transgenderism do not actually make any sense to them and that they are simply going along with it in an effort of being nice. Heck, I have visited trans communities before and many have admitted to having doubts about whether or not transgenderism is simply nonsense.

Honestly, the issue of transgenderism is often foggy and murky for me. As someone who highly values evolutionary psychology and statistical differences in the brains between men and women, I have an easier time building a case made out of stone compared to those who view differences between men and women more a product of culture. The issue of whether or not a trans-woman is really a woman seems more like a philosophical question than anything. I also do not see how trans women are 100% women as some trans activists like to shout over and over and finish with "end of discussion". Sorry, but I do not see how not mindlessly going for something makes me a bigot.

Like I said before, not all trans people think or act alike. I have conversed with some cool ones who do not go into meltdown mode when I air my honest thoughts. As far as moving forward goes, open and honest communication between trans and cis people will be less shallow and probably leave trans people feeling more content and validated compared to them wondering if trans friendly cis people are simply faking it because social pressures demand they act a certain way.

 

[theoneandonlypencil]

which is still a question awaiting an answer

I already answered? Some mental illnesses can be triggered by biological factors, which need to be corrected. However, there is no way to change your complete biology from male to female.

the AMA has adopted the Standard of Care Guidelines published by The World Professional Association for Transgender Health and most hospitals strictly adhere to the guidelines. the guidelines include a long commitment to therapy prior to even starting any medical transitioning. The guide suggests caution when it comes to encouraging medical transitioning.

I'll read this when I get the chance. Thank you.

isn't the use of a preferred pronoun respectful?

Respectful? Probably. But again, using atheists as an analogy; can you imagine how atheists would feel if they had to act as though God were real, or forced to say things such as 'God Bless' or 'Praise Jesus' when they don't agree with Christianity? Respect goes both ways--it's respectful if people refer to others as their preferred pronouns, but it is also respectful to not force anyone to do so and to understand when someone doesn't do so based on personal beliefs and ideologies.

 

[theoneandonlypencil]

Well, not all trans people think alike. Some are patient and kind and open to honest thoughts from others, while others are demanding and resort in peer pressure in an effort to bully others into conformity. I do not feel like it is right to demand someone call a man a woman if they only see a man and vice versa. You're basically telling others to be dishonest in order to comfort other people's feelings. This seems hollow. I have talked to pro-trans cis people before, and many have confided secretly with me that the issues of transgenderism do not actually make any sense to them and that they are simply going along with it in an effort of being nice. Heck, I have visited trans communities before and many have admitted to having doubts about whether or not transgenderism is simply nonsense.

Honestly, the issue of transgenderism is often foggy and murky for me. As someone who highly values evolutionary psychology and statistical differences in the brains between men and women, I have an easier time building a case made out of stone compared to those who view differences between men and women more a product of culture. The issue of whether or not a trans-woman is really a woman seems more like a philosophical question than anything. I also do not see how trans women are 100% women as some trans activists like to shout over and over and finish with "end of discussion". Sorry, but I do not see how not mindlessly going for something makes me a bigot.

Like I said before, not all trans people think or act alike. I have conversed with some cool ones who do not go into meltdown mode when I air my honest thoughts. As far as moving forward goes, open and honest communication between trans and cis people will be less shallow and probably leave trans people feeling more content and validated compared to them wondering if trans friendly cis people are simply faking it because social pressures demand they act a certain way.

I couldn't agree with what you said more. in addition to what you said, I do feel like it's also a matter of making sure trans people end up getting real, long-lasting help. I'm sure a lot of them feel backed into a corner if their families/friends start to treat them 'differently' once coming out as trans, and I think perhaps this makes things even worse. One of my best friends, someone who helped me through very dark times, is actually trans and I love her dearly. I knew her pre-transition and she is a lovely person whom I have always treated the same as I would any straight cis friend(it did take a while to get used to her pronouns though, and I did make sure she knew my stance on the matter). Although I can't help but also feel a bit sad that she isn't mentally able to feel comfortable in the body she was born in. Same goes to other trans folk.

I think what made me so apprehensive to trans people(and even the LGBT+ community as a whole)during most of my teen years was how it was presented. The arguments didn't(and still don't always)make sense, and the people I'd see the most were the 'cishet [whatever]phobes need to shut the [bless and do not curse] up', often paired with the 'men are misogynistic pigs' feminists and 'white supremacy is alive and well' protest groups. I know these people don't represent the whole of their political side, but being introduced to them that way and seeing how they act in the mainstream media left a very bad taste in my mouth. It's only recently in the past year I've been trying to train myself to take an honest look from the other side, since really all I want is an open, honest discussion where both sides have their needs met and can live peacefully in society.

It certainly doesn't help that politics worms its way into everything and turns it into an 'us vs them' mentality. Another reason I decided to leave the 'conservative right' and start classing myself as a moderate, since the flaws of both sides are very apparent to me now.