Thoughts on these verses?

[stray bullet]

"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;

and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand." - John 10:27-28

What are your thoughts on these verses? I was reading through the Gospel of John the other day and thought about this. Isn't this suggesting that once you are in the flock, you will never leave, as "they will never perish?".

Reading through this, I couldn't help but think of Calvinism. Thoughts?

 

[BjBarnett]

*and Ben began to speak in parables*

agreed his sheep will never perish. but what if they are not his sheep? you see if a sheep runs away and goes into another flock under the influence of another shepard then is he not a sheep of the different flock?

 

[Paul S]

We hear the voice of Jesus through His Church, so as long as we follow the Church, we're in the flock and will make it to heaven. We stop listening to the Shepherd when we sin. The devil may not be able to snatch us away, but we can choose to turn away and follow him instead of Jesus, because if it were otherwise, Jesus would be denying free will.

 

[InnerPhyre]

No one can snatch us from His hands, but He won't force us to stay if we choose to leave.

 

[thereselittleflower]

"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;

and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand." - John 10:27-28

What are your thoughts on these verses? I was reading through the Gospel of John the other day and thought about this. Isn't this suggesting that once you are in the flock, you will never leave, as "they will never perish?".

Reading through this, I couldn't help but think of Calvinism. Thoughts?

Hi stray . . .

Any scripture has to be understood not by itself, but in context and with the rest of the fullness of the Christians faith . . .

But if we look just at what these scriptures say, even though they seem to support the Calvinistic belief system, look at what is there and what is not there . .

"and they will never perish"



This has to do with hell .. . ."perish" means:

G622


ἀπόλλυμι

apollumi

Thayer Definition:

1) to destroy

1a) to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to ruin

1b) render useless

1c) to kill

1d) to declare that one must be put to death

1e) metaphorically to devote or give over to eternal misery in hell

1f) to perish, to be lost, ruined, destroyed

2) to destroy

2a) to lose

Part of Speech: verb

A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G575 and the base of G3639

Citing in TDNT: 1:394, 67


​

If we are Christ's sheep, then this will not happen to us . . Christ will not do this to us . . . If we are in His hand, He is not going to cast us out of His hand. . and no one is going to be able to pluck us out . .




The Greek word translated "Pluck" (or snatch) is:

G726


ἁρπάζω

harpazō

Thayer Definition:

1) to seize, carry off by force

2) to seize on, claim for one’s self eagerly

3) to snatch out or away

Part of Speech: verb

A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from a derivative of G138

Citing in TDNT: 1:472, 80


​

This is speaking of what Christ will not do, and what others cannot do . . . if we are, and remain, His sheep . .


It says nothing at all about what WE ouselves can or cannot do . . .


We can choose to turn away from God . . . if we do, and die in such a state, we are no longer His sheep by OUR choice . . . .


Does this help?



Peace in Him!