Thoughts on the Archbishop of Canterbury?

[mark46]

Yes, wingnuts [I think Brits call them "nutters"] like message boards and talk radio! My point is that these folks are a relatively small minority with the RCC, albeit a vocal minority. The political boards of OBOB and the CF generally are the home of the right wing delusional folk.

Again, I'm not saying most Catholics are Republican. I'm saying that online posters and the hardcore fundamentalist Catholics tend to be. I don't think that's an inaccurate or exaggerated statement at all. If you go to any Catholic forum, yes, you'll find a few liberal Catholics, but overall on online forums, the vast, vast majority are the hardcore Republicans, borderline tea partiers. Go to OBOB on here and see the demographics. Go in their political section and tell me what you see.

I'm not sure why you mention the leftie definition. That definition is not an overall American sentiment but rather the reaction of a Tea Party conservative, which I am certainly not. Wanting to tax people who make over $250,000 is fine by me. Problem is, it wasn't for the President; he decided to re-authorize the Bush tax cuts along with the Patriot Act, while continuing the two wars and escalating the Afghan War. There has been more torture under Obama's administration and more terrorists expatriated to be tortured oversees than under Bush oddly enough. I can't figure out why the GOP is so angry at Obama. He's done just about everything they've wanted him to do and has nothing to show for it. I'd vote him out in a New York minute if it weren't for the fact that the Republicans are far, far more dangerous and scary than Obama!

 

[Naomi4Christ]

What you seem to be saying is that one can call themselves Anglican and believe in anything at all. It is sort of like calling oneself a Brit or an American or an Aussie.

Well, this begs the question, what is an Anglican.

Here in England, Anglican is the default. For example, if you are admitted to hospital, you declare your religious affiliation. For many people, this will be "none". For those people who aren't active members of a church, but don't want to be a nothing (should the worst happen), they will undoubtably default to Anglican.

When people do this, you naturally get those who have no clue as to church doctrine, even though they self-identify as Anglican.

In England, everyone can call themselves Anglican if they want to because the only criterion is to live in a parish (and everyone does).

When people are new to the Christian faith, they know nothing about doctrine. It takes time and inclination to learn this. On my side of the church, we believe that discipleship will set people on the narrow path, not prior knowledge or academic study.

This means you get a situation where people have all sorts of beliefs, especially if they have come from a different spiritual or faith tradition, but we believe that through prayer/discipleship wrong doctrines and beliefs will fall away (become less important). It is a process.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I disagree. It is not insulting in any way. You are free to interpret it as you like. Your language is also quite provocative from my observations. Telling those with whom you disagree to pack their bags and hit the bricks and the many other insulting things only cause a lack of trust in your motives as well. Two-way street. I see lacking manners in your posts as well.

I think it is your language which provokes the alienation, not your beliefs. Imo it is not acceptable to use the term 'priestess' of an Anglican priest who happens to be a woman. It is at best bad manners, and at worst mischievous.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I'm not so sure. The Tea Party are an ultraminority within the Republican Party and yet they have managed to dictate, steer, and guide the entire discussion in Washington. They have gotten their way from Obama very effectively and right now they dictate the terms in budget talks, etc. The reauthorization of the Patriot Act, the continuing torture, the reauthorization of the Bush tax cuts, the reauthorization of No Child Left Behind, and the debt ceiling agreements inluded no new tax revenues or taxes on the wealthy. They got what they wanted more than the Dems and moderates did. The national harrassment of Medicare and Social Security continues thanks to these Tea Partiers and they are a vocal lot.

I think in the short term they are hurting the country and wield a lot of power to be sure. But I think over time the country will look at them more closely and start rolling their eyes as they get sick of their outcomes. Governor Rick Perry is a joke. The country is not going to vote for another Texas conservative and especially not for a guy who accepted Obama's stimulus funds and made jobs with them WHILE he set up a website calling the nation to fight the stimulus funding. He continues to blame Obama's "failed" stimulus for everything despite his own use of said funds.

Candidates like Michele Bachman are a boon for Dems; you're right. The GOP has really weak candidates. But it's also a LOUSY economy and the Tea Party is trying to convince everyone it's Obama's baby.

The Tea Party protected those GOP state senators pretty well in Wisconsin and only like 2 out of 8 were recalled. They've fought the unions hard and have won, sadly.

I hope in the longterm your right and I hope their contradictory messages continue to come to light, but right now Americans are angry and looking for someone to blame. Let's hope they blame the people that put us into this mess.....W and crew...

The Tea Party is the best thing to happen to the Democrats since the Perot candidacy helped Clinton get elected (and then those terrible 8 years of budget surpluses and 20 million added jobs).

 

[Catherineanne]

In England, everyone can call themselves Anglican if they want to because the only criterion is to live in a parish (and everyone does).

Lord, have mercy!

Once again, you are not quite right. To claim to be Anglican a person has to be baptised into the Anglican communion, which as you rightly say, the majority of people are.

It is nonsense to say that the 'default value' for everyone in England is Anglican; it isn't.

 

[Catherineanne]

I disagree. It is not insulting in any way.

I did not say insulting. I said mischievous and unacceptable.

You are free to interpret it as you like. Your language is also quite provocative from my observations. Telling those with whom you disagree to pack their bags and hit the bricks and the many other insulting things only cause a lack of trust in your motives as well. Two-way street. I see lacking manners in your posts as well.

I did not tell you to pack your bags, darling. I said if you needed help packing you only had to ask. That is polite where I come from.

I said nothing about hitting any bricks, whatever that might mean.

If you are going to quote me - and it is most flattering that you would want to - do try to get it right, won't you?

 

[ebia]

I did not say insulting. I said mischievous and unacceptable.

I did not tell you to pack your bags, darling. I said if you needed help packing you only had to ask. That is polite where I come from.

If you are going to quote me - and it is most flattering that you would want to - do try to get it right, won't you?

Perhaps it's a reminder that our cultures are different wrt what is a bit of friendly robust pushing-and-shoving and what will offend. And even what certain phrases connote at all.

 

[Catherineanne]

Originally Posted by Catherineanne

There may be some doctrines that some Anglicans reject, but I am not sure there are any doctrines which ALL Anglicans reject. And I am also not sure that ALL Anglicans take a different view of ordination.

Anglicanism is such a broad church that there are some (such as yours truly) for whom there is no theological, doctrinal or sacramental divide from either of the other apostolics.
​

What you seem to be saying is that one can call themselves Anglican and believe in anything at all. It is sort of like calling oneself a Brit or an American or an Aussie.

Not anything.

The Nicene Creed is pretty well a given, as are the other creeds; Athanasian etc. After that, there is a very broad range from evangelical at one side to Anglo Catholic on the other, but these are all mainstream Christian; all accepting Christ as Lord and Saviour, all accepting his death in propitiation for our sins. If an Anglican happens to find that they are not comfortable with the worship style of the church they attend, they can try to find another with a style more suited to their spirituality.

This is what happened with me. About 300 years ago I was confirmed at Jesmond Parish Church (just about as evangelical as it is possible to be), but never felt quite at home. Some time later I discovered Anglo Catholicism pretty well by accident, and everything fell into place. I get higher with every passing year, but I have no wish to topple over into Rome.

I am not aware of any doctrinal difference apart from the status of the Pope between Anglo Catholic theology and that of Rome. The only difference with Orthodoxy is probably the filioque, in common with most of the Western Church.

 

[Catherineanne]

Perhaps it's a reminder that our cultures are different wrt what is a bit of friendly robust pushing-and-shoving and what will offend. And even what certain phrases connote at all.

That is reasonable given good will on both sides, E. Sometimes that is not the case.

I do not find it useful to be guided by what offends other people, given that they can choose to be offended any time they like. That way quite frankly madness lies. I certainly don't go out of my way to cause offence, and when others start to rail in righteous indignation over very innocuous comments, intended to lighten the tone or defuse tension, I really don't see that I need to worry unduly about their huffing and puffing.

Personally I think it is better to choose not to take offense, and to take comments in the spirit in which they are intended.

 

[ebia]

This thread no longer has anything to do with +Rowan, does it?

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Well lets get one thing straight...knock off the off-putting "darling" nonsense. Secondly, you know what you said...offering to help someone pack their bags is an insult and akin to "don't the door hit ya on the way out, punk!" Let's not insult each other's intelligence....

I did not tell you to pack your bags, darling. I said if you needed help packing you only had to ask. That is polite where I come from.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

You don't find it useful to be guided by what offends others but you'll give me a word bank on another post in how to speak and how to delicately place my words so as not to offend you? You've been highly-insulted right and left and went as far as to offer me a lexicon of suggested sensitivity training words in how to converse with you?

This is just too rich...

That is reasonable given good will on both sides, E. Sometimes that is not the case.

I do not find it useful to be guided by what offends other people, given that they can choose to be offended any time they like. That way quite frankly madness lies. I certainly don't go out of my way to cause offence, and when others start to rail in righteous indignation over very innocuous comments, intended to lighten the tone or defuse tension, I really don't see that I need to worry unduly about their huffing and puffing.

Personally I think it is better to choose not to take offense, and to take comments in the spirit in which they are intended.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Nope LOL

This thread no longer has anything to do with +Rowan, does it?

 

[ebia]

Maybe we could bring it back a bit by all emulating Rowan's example of turning the other cheek when insulted intentionally or deliberately.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

It is truly amazing how different the English are from Americans. Over the past seven years I have been around many British here and abroad. I have been struck by the fact that the British sense of humor, manner of conversation, mannerisms, and general attitudes about things are far more foreign to me than the Asians I've been around on my 6 or 7 trips to China, Thailand, the Philippines, Hong Kong, etc. We truly are different cultures. And here my last name is as English as you're going to get and I have British ancestry. It must be the Germans, Irish, and Dutch in my blood crowded it out!

At least a ton of my favorite musicians and actors are British!

Perhaps it's a reminder that our cultures are different wrt what is a bit of friendly robust pushing-and-shoving and what will offend. And even what certain phrases connote at all.

 

[ebia]

It is truly amazing how different the English are from Americans. Over the past seven years I have been around many British here and abroad. I have been struck by the fact that the British sense of humor, manner of conversation, mannerisms, and general attitudes about things are far more foreign to me than the Asians I've been around on my 6 or 7 trips to China, Thailand, the Philippines, Hong Kong, etc. We truly are different cultures. And here my last name is as English as you're going to get and I have British ancestry. It must be the Germans, Irish, and Dutch in my blood crowded it out!

At least a ton of my favorite musicians and actors are British!

Even Britain and Australia are substantially different, although not to the same degree.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Maybe gurney and ebia could collaborate on a bumper sticker that says "what would Rowan do?" with a cartoon having ultra long eyebrows smiling?

Maybe we could bring it back a bit by all emulating Rowan's example of turning the other cheek when insulted intentionally or deliberately.

 

[ebia]

Maybe gurney and ebia could collaborate on a bumper sticker that says "what would Rowan do?" with a cartoon having ultra long eyebrows smiling?

LOL

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

My wife is from the Philippines. Obviously she married an American. Then her friend, Tina, also a filipino born and raised near my wife, Kate, married a British chap.

We went to the Philippines last year and both Kate and Tina thought how delightful it would be to hook up Alan, the Brit, and Scott the yank together....boy was that a fiasco....After day one of hearing how dumb the Americans are, how we are so behind, how we are neanderthals, how unsophisticated we are, how politically wretched we are, how we're a nasty empire, how financially corrupt we've become, and about how lousy the American accent is, when Kate said, "good news, you can hang out again with Alan tomorrow!" my reaction..."oh, joy to the universe!"

Our senses of humor (or should I say "humour") are polar opposites....

Even Britain and Australia are substantially different, although not to the same degree.

 

[Adam Warlock]

My wife is from the Philippines. Obviously she married an American. Then her friend, Tina, also a filipino born and raised near my wife, Kate, married a British chap.

We went to the Philippines last year and both Kate and Tina thought how delightful it would be to hook up Alan, the Brit, and Scott the yank together....boy was that a fiasco....After day one of hearing how dumb the Americans are, how we are so behind, how we are neanderthals, how unsophisticated we are, how politically wretched we are, how we're a nasty empire, how financially corrupt we've become, and about how lousy the American accent is, when Kate said, "good news, you can hang out again with Alan tomorrow!" my reaction..."oh, joy to the universe!"

Our senses of humor (or should I say "humour") are polar opposites....