Thoughts on Rob Black

[The Seeker]

For those of you who don't know (I don't know how high profile the case is in the states, but its pretty low key round my neck of the woods), Rob Black is the owner of a porn company that makes notoriously "hardcore" porn. Some of Black's films feature rape fantasy scenes or women made up to look like young girls having sex with older men. The federal police are trying to prosecute Black for broadcasting obscene material.

I only heard about it because I saw a documentary on BBC3 just now, it featured a few brief clips from some of Black's films, even though it was all done by adult actors who gave their consent I literally couldn't bring myself to watch. The idea that people could find the idea of a woman being raped a turn on really sickens me to my stomach. BUT even though I think Rob Black is a vile scumbag (my opinion of the people who buy this stuff is much lower, but CF rules won't let me give the exact wording) I don't think he should go to prison for the rest of his life. The fact is that the people taking part in these films are all consenting adults and nobody is being forced to watch them, though I'd be very wary of anybody who gets off on the debasement of women (weird, creepy mysoginists), I can't see any strong argument for banning them.

Thoughts?

 

[Alecto]

That is an example of porn being taken too far. I have nothing against porn, but when your faking rape scenes or lollita footage.....thats taking it a little too far for the sake of profit

 

[Dark_Lite]

I don't know the laws of England... But I think if the films were in the US they would probably violate so many FCC rules all of the film tape would have to be removed from the country

 

[Electric Sceptic]

For those of you who don't know (I don't know how high profile the case is in the states, but its pretty low key round my neck of the woods), Rob Black is the owner of a porn company that makes notoriously "hardcore" porn. Some of Black's films feature rape fantasy scenes or women made up to look like young girls having sex with older men. The federal police are trying to prosecute Black for broadcasting obscene material.

I only heard about it because I saw a documentary on BBC3 just now, it featured a few brief clips from some of Black's films, even though it was all done by adult actors who gave their consent I literally couldn't bring myself to watch. The idea that people could find the idea of a woman being raped a turn on really sickens me to my stomach. BUT even though I think Rob Black is a vile scumbag (my opinion of the people who buy this stuff is much lower, but CF rules won't let me give the exact wording) I don't think he should go to prison for the rest of his life. The fact is that the people taking part in these films are all consenting adults and nobody is being forced to watch them, though I'd be very wary of anybody who gets off on the debasement of women (weird, creepy mysoginists), I can't see any strong argument for banning them.

Thoughts?

I share your opinion regarding the man and those who use his films. However, freedom of expression dictates that he be allowed to produce his work (since there is apparently no question that people are being forced into it). Limiting freedom of expression is, of course, the first step toward a totalitarian state.

 

[David Gould]

Most of my sexual fantasies revolve around rape. I treat women with respect and dignity. Fantasies are just that: fantasies. It is the people who cannot tell the difference who are the problem, not those who enjoy them as fantasies.

 

[The Seeker]

Most of my sexual fantasies revolve around rape. I treat women with respect and dignity. Fantasies are just that: fantasies. It is the people who cannot tell the difference who are the problem, not those who enjoy them as fantasies.

I happen to disagree. Simulated rape scenes objectify the women involved and encourage a mysoginistic and deeply offensive view of women.

 

[David Gould]

I happen to disagree. Simulated rape scenes objectify the women involved and encourage a mysoginistic and deeply offensive view of women.

Isn't this the accusation that people use about all pornography?

Pornography does not make people treat women badly; people that treat women badly seek out pornography.

You - along with most everyone else - confuse cause with effect.

 

[Spinrad]

I personally find all entertainment to be objectifying and exploitative. Some people make their ill gotten gains by having sex in strange ways, other by making music or painting pictures. Anything that you produce for profit is by it's nature exploitative and objectifying. Atheletes, scientists, teachers, religeous personalities...all are harlots as far as I am concerned. But I like harlots. I find them to be very cathartic, uselfull and even necessary for a society to run smoothly. Many of them offend me very, very deeply - those who claim that man is sinful and that many are to be damned to hell for eternity raise my deepwst ire, moreso than any traditional harlots. But I am not the final authority on which harlots are to be tolerated and which are to be jailed. And many of the people you know are lucky.

 

[Electric Sceptic]

Simulated rape scenes objectify the women involved and encourage a mysoginistic and deeply offensive view of women.

Do you have any evidence to support this claim?

 

[The Seeker]

Do you have any evidence to support this claim?

Are you seriously claiming that the way that women are portrayed in some pornographic films isn't objectifying or mysoginistic? Some of the films produced by Black feature women being dragged up flights of stairs by some man, being called bad women* and told that they "deserve it", being humiliated and forced to degrade themselves, am I the only one who sees the problem with the attitude put across here?

*not my choice of words

 

[Spinrad]

I read once that the main female fantasy scenario was rape. BLew me away but there you have it. Turns out the deep seeded guilt most western women feel over their sexuality actually causes these rape fantasies, where they can have all the sex they crave but face none of the associated guilt.

Perhaps these movies are not inteneded for a mainly male audience?

By the way, A fantasy has nopthing to do with reality, and I did not assume that because according to this study I can't even remember well enough to site specifically that women crave Actual rape. Any more than I think I would be able to satisfy a harem full of bisexual women.

 

[levi501]

I got to concure with Spinrad...
Role playing is a tool used to heighten the sexual experience.
I see nothing wrong with role playing someone innocent(which is more then likely what the underage factor represents and not pedofilia) or pretending to be forced into having sex. Quite honestly stuff like that is fun and can add spice to a couple's sex life. Without knowing anything about these films, could it be that they are the onscreen performance of such fantasies? If you told me the women were brutally beaten in clear pain, not receiving any sexual gratification... or even being killed then I might have to reconsider my position. From your description though is sounds like onscreen S&M fetishes. which is all good.

 

[Madcoil]

I found this debate about what is and what should be sexually arousing to be very similar to other debates concerning homosexuality.

 

[The Seeker]

I got to concure with Spinrad...
Role playing is a tool used to heighten the sexual experience.
I see nothing wrong with role playing someone innocent(which is more then likely what the underage factor represents and not pedofilia) or pretending to be forced into having sex. Quite honestly stuff like that is fun and can add spice to a couple's sex life. Without knowing anything about these films, could it be that they are the onscreen performance of such fantasies? If you told me the women were brutally beaten in clear pain, not receiving any sexual gratification... or even being killed then I might have to reconsider my position. From your description though is sounds like onscreen S&M fetishes. which is all good.

The point is that in a certain type of porn, women are portrayed as enjoying or deserving to be raped, it presents a warped view of human sexuality which I find personally objectionable*.


*Please note that at no time have I called for any of this to be *illegal*, I just don't approve of it personally.

 

[Spinrad]

The point is that in a certain type of porn, women are portrayed as enjoying or deserving to be raped, it presents a warped view of human sexuality which I find personally objectionable*.


*Please note that at no time have I called for any of this to be *illegal*, I just don't approve of it personally.

Well, that's all well and good. Expressing an opinion is a good thing, but I can't see the relevance of bringing up these particular videos when even as I speak Fox News is running 24 hours a day. Out of the two I find Fox News to be far and away the more threatening to humanity - not just a particular group of humanity, mind you. I am uninterested in rape fantasies or sex with underage girls, as far as it goes. But I have fantisized about things that would make you far more uncomfortable than simple rape or pedophilia, I imagine. So what?

 

[The Seeker]

Well, that's all well and good. Expressing an opinion is a good thing, but I can't see the relevance of bringing up these particular videos when even as I speak Fox News is running 24 hours a day. Out of the two I find Fox News to be far and away the more threatening to humanity - not just a particular group of humanity, mind you.

Personally I think they're a part of the same phenomenom, images that perpetuate the dominant ideology of the ruling class being perpetuated through the media. I don't think porn of this type should be banned, but that doesn't make Black or his ilk some kind of hero or a champion of liberty and it offends me personally when he tries to portray himself in that light, he's a selfish, cynical, money grubbing jerk exploiting human beings for profit.

I am uninterested in rape fantasies or sex with underage girls, as far as it goes. But I have fantisized about things that would make you far more uncomfortable than simple rape or pedophilia, I imagine. So what?

As it goes, any sexual behaviour that doesn't involve one of those two doesn't bother me in the least. Or at least I can't think of any.

 

[Jetgirl]

The fact is that the people taking part in these films are all consenting adults and nobody is being forced to watch them, though I'd be very wary of anybody who gets off on the debasement of women (weird, creepy mysoginists), I can't see any strong argument for banning them.

Thoughts?

Looks for non-consenting individuals *looking, looking, still looking*

Nope, everyone's consenting.

I have no problems, and other people bizzare sexual peccadillos are none of my business.

 

[The Seeker]

Looks for non-consenting individuals *looking, looking, still looking*

Nope, everyone's consenting.

I have no problems, and other people bizzare sexual peccadillos are none of my business.

This may shock you but we happen to live in a little something called society. Individuals do not and cannot live in a vacuum.

 

[Spinrad]

S and M is, at it's most basic level, a rape fantasy. And as I mentioned earlier, rape fantasies seem to be more prevelant for females. And also as I said earlier, all entertainment is exploitative and, if not viewed in context, demeaning. You are free to pick and choose which ones are worse than others, but again I can't see the point.

 

[The Seeker]

S and M is, at it's most basic level, a rape fantasy. And as I mentioned earlier, rape fantasies seem to be more prevelant for females. And also as I said earlier, all entertainment is exploitative and, if not viewed in context, demeaning. You are free to pick and choose which ones are worse than others, but again I can't see the point.

In what way is all entertainment "exploitative and, if not viewed in context, demeaning"? Do you have any argument to back this up at all?