Thoughts on Predestination

[jeolmstead]

It is amazing to me how as scientists continue to unlock the mysteries of the cosmos their discoveries continue to point back to our creator.

John O.

 

[JAS4Yeshua]

I feel like I've stepped into an episode of Sliders.

I discount the parrellel universe theories as something strictly from science fiction. The theories are plausible, but, IMO, are just another effort to take a person's eyes off of Christ.

Besides, lets look at Scripture. We are given one choice, to accept or reject Christ. If we don't accept in this "reality" but do in another "reality" doesn't that diminish the point of the Cross, as I would get into heaven based on what I did in the other reality? Yes, my head is spinning even writing this.

Let's get back to the basics and stop trying to complicate matters. The bottom line is that everyone needs to make a choice, either for or against Jesus. There is no other choice that matters. Since God exists outside of time, He knows the decision that people will make before they make it. We, being limited beings, do not see or know what God does. Therefore we need to be out there, praying and winning souls for Christ, and not worrying about "predestination."

 

[jeolmstead]

Personally I do not see how anything I’ve written here violates scripture or diminishes the cross.

The understanding that time, space, and matter are interrelated and that they relate to each other (As put forth by Einstein) has helped me to grasp the eternal nature of God.

The fact that God exists outside of time and space has helped to understand many things about scripture such as:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

How God knew Jeremiah before he was formed in the womb.

How it is that Christ was slain before the foundation of the world.

Ezekiel’s wheel within a wheel

Jesus said “Before Abraham I am”

How it is that I have freewill yet God knows what I’m going to do.



The church resists any understanding that seems to violate it’s understanding of truth.

That is why the church taught that the earth was the center of creation. It taught that the sun and the stars revolved around it (And burned and imprisoned those who taught otherwise)

The church at that time claimed the bible as it’s authority for those claims. They were wrong. They were wrong not because the bible was wrong, but, because their reasoning about the scripture was flawed.

So it is today.

John O.

 

[JTM3]

I feel like I've stepped into an episode of Sliders.

I discount the parrellel universe theories as something strictly from science fiction. The theories are plausible, but, IMO, are just another effort to take a person's eyes off of Christ.

How so??

Is the spirit realm in our physical reality? Certainly not.

All logic says the spirit realm must somehow be outside of this phyiscal existence.

If you question that, just ask yourself: Are spirits physical or in anyway?

The answer is obvious..

 

[JAS4Yeshua]

Personally I do not see how anything I’ve written here violates scripture or diminishes the cross.

The understanding that time, space, and matter are interrelated and that they relate to each other (As put forth by Einstein) has helped me to grasp the eternal nature of God.

The fact that God exists outside of time and space has helped to understand many things about scripture such as:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

How God knew Jeremiah before he was formed in the womb.

How it is that Christ was slain before the foundation of the world.

Ezekiel’s wheel within a wheel

Jesus said “Before Abraham I am”

How it is that I have freewill yet God knows what I’m going to do.



The church resists any understanding that seems to violate it’s understanding of truth.

That is why the church taught that the earth was the center of creation. It taught that the sun and the stars revolved around it (And burned and imprisoned those who taught otherwise)

The church at that time claimed the bible as it’s authority for those claims. They were wrong. They were wrong not because the bible was wrong, but, because their reasoning about the scripture was flawed.

So it is today.

John O.

I wasn't meaning to imply you were taking away from cross. I apologize if that is the way my post seemed. I was referring to the "scientific" study into things like the string theory and parallel dimensions being created based off each choice every person makes. In otherwords, the stuff that science fiction comes from.

How so??

Is the spirit realm in our physical reality? Certainly not.

All logic says the spirit realm must somehow be outside of this phyiscal existence.

If you question that, just ask yourself: Are spirits physical or in anyway?

The answer is obvious..

Again, I'm referring to the multiple parallel universes, where choices create multiple different universes, thus we can exist in several different states at the same time.

This wasn't meant as a discussion against the spiritual realm, which I believe does exist. The dimension (if you will) in which God exists, and I believe we will exist when we are brought into perfection.

Go back to what I wrote previously, and reread it. Hopefully you will better understand what I was trying to convey.

 

[JAS4Yeshua]

To clarify my point, on this very confusing tangent.

Parallel Universes, where our choices dictate the "creation" of new universes is what I'm saying is taking away from the cross, as I stated previously.

Multiple dimensions of reality, beyond the fourth dimension (time) I do believe and know exist. We can't understand them, because we are limited to four dimensions, but I believe God exists beyond those barriers.

This whole discussion is nothing but confusing physics which most people won't understand. I don't think anyone fully grasps (or can grasp) the concept outside of scientific theories.

All this confusion alone is reason enough to get back to the basics, and not try to complicate the power of the cross.

 

[JAS4Yeshua]

Forgive me for posting three times in a row.

I thought these verses would be good to post here, as to why I posted "get back to the basics" as opposed to getting "lost in physics."

I Corinthians 1:17-31 NIV
17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel--not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power. 18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate." 20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22 Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength. 26 Brothers, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things--and the things that are not--to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him. 30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31 Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."

 

[LogonLalein]

I have found that many of the theistic principles held by the church are not compatible with the doctrine of Christ... and have abandoned them. In some cases they are destructive to faith and joy. At the same time I have found that we should not wrench these principles away from people, because in many ways they cannot continue without them.
As people grow in faith and the word... the value and relevance of these things fade, and all that is left is Jesus and His Father.

 

[Brucea]

Jesus is praying for you and me. Prayer does have a cause and effect on people and circumstances around us.

People have prayed for me and I have been healed. Did God chose to heal me? Yes! Was it the prayer of a righteous man that availed much? Yes!