thoughts on inerrancy

[Resha Caner]

Of course everyone is free to add comments, but I am most interested in hearing the thoughts of those who hold scripture to be inerrant.

I am one who believes scripture to be inerrant, but even amongst those of us who take that position there is considerable variety. So, the aspect I'm most interested in is the efficacy of your position. What I mean by that is: how does a believer interact with scripture? As an example, if you believe only the original document was inerrant, and we no longer have that document, then how does God speak through what we have now?

That's just a starter. I'm sure the variety of opinion will raise even more interesting issues as time goes by.

 

[ForceofTime]

Not to be seem glib, but...The Holy Spirit?

 

[ForceofTime]

By the way, there is an inerrancy thread in the Apologetics forum

 

[Resha Caner]

By the way, there is an inerrancy thread in the Apologetics forum

I didn't want to hijack someone else's conversation, but I can check it out if that would be more productive.

Not to be seem glib, but...The Holy Spirit?

Agreed. That was too simple. I guess I'm more used to disagreement in spiritual discussions. So, let me push back a little even though I agree scriptural inspiration comes from the Holy Spirit. If it were just the Spirit whispering in your ear and my ear, that would be a bit too gnostic for me. So, say someone wants to read the Word, but they don't know Greek or Hebrew. One person trusts the ESV and another trusts the NIV. How do those translations play into inerrancy?

 

[Bear.Fr00t]

I'll suggest that even though we don't have the original manuscripts the thoughts and ideas are the same. The truths expressed in the Bible are the same even if the words are not exactly as penned by the original author.

 

[ForceofTime]

So, say someone wants to read the Word, but they don't know Greek or Hebrew. One person trusts the ESV and another trusts the NIV. How do those translations play into inerrancy?

Oh, I see. Well, I can give you a personal example. I used to really enjoy reading the Nag Hammadi gnostic texts, and have read almost all of them. But one day the Holy Spirit asked me a question, "notice anything missing from all these books?" Then it occurred to me that yes there was! After this I kind of reread them and noticed other smaller things that I didn't even consider before.

If any translation omits or distorts something, the Holy Spirit will let you know if you listen. This is just my experience.

 

[MrPolo]

Catholics believe the Holy Spirit will guide the Church in understanding the Scriptures. Interpreting can involve many methods like textual criticism or historical criticism, etc...

 

[MrPolo]

If any translation omits or distorts something, the Holy Spirit will let you know if you listen. This is just my experience.

Do you have the ability to tell if something is Scripture just by reading it?

 

[ForceofTime]

Do you have the ability to tell if something is Scripture just by reading it?

I have already answered that in the previous posts. As far as 'scripture' is concerned, that may be found in most anything.

 

[ReneJCeternity]

My brother in Christ we have to keep in mind that salvation was first for the Jews, then the gentiles. The gentiles are those who are not Jews. GOD Almighty in His Foreknowledge knew that gentiles were going to consist of Chinese, Mexicans, Americans etc...So why should we doubt if GOD Almighty speaks to us through the WORD in our language or not? If you have the Holy Ghost in your life, and seek Him with all your heart through prayer fasting and reading of the Bible, He will reveal Himself to you and speak to you. Remember, He speaks to us through His Word and the Spirit. We need to KNOW the Lord to know when He speaks to us. blessings!! I hope that helps you a little.

 

[MrPolo]

I have already answered that in the previous posts. As far as 'scripture' is concerned, that may be found in most anything.

You should try to take the "Is that Scripture" QUIZ.

 

[Resha Caner]

You should try to take the "Is that Scripture" QUIZ.

I can't quite tell where you stand, Mr. Polo. In your first post you indicated a belief in a mixture of inspiration and reason. Since then I infer that you might lean a bit more toward the reason side of things. Your scripture quiz seems a somewhat skeptical attempt to show that people don't discern as well as they think they do.

And if that was your intent, I would agree with you. I am fully accepting of the role the Holy Spirit plays. That role is attested to in scripture itself. Yet the mystical attitude some take toward scripture often comes across to me as more superstition that trust in God ... if I open the Bible at random, the Spirit will lead me to the right verse ... if I feel my heart leading me ... etc.

I love the line from the movie Fireproof:

God made marriage to be for life. That’s why you gotta keep your vows to Catherine. You gotta beg God to teach you to be a good husband. And don’t just follow your heart, man, because your heart can be deceived. But you gotta LEAD your heart.

With that said, the same is true of reason. I don't like textural and historical criticism (I happen to have a degree in history) when it comes to scripture. People bring just as much bias to that excercise as they do to "follow your heart."

So, I think the mind and the heart play a role, but only insofar as we perceive what scripture says - not in cherry-picking verses, deciding what is and isn't scripture, etc. I'm not sure I've said it well. It's a hard concept to put into language. It's hard because by human logical standards it creates circular reasoning.

That's why I hoped someone might have found a good way to express the concept of inerrancy.

 

[MrPolo]

I can't quite tell where you stand, Mr. Polo. In your first post you indicated a belief in a mixture of inspiration and reason.

I wouldn't quite put it that way. By reason I think you meant some of the methods of textual criticism. Ultimately, the Spirit must be the driving force of understanding even if that comes by studying textual parallels, passage symmetry, or even grammar. Paul himself makes an argument from the Old Testament based on the fact that a certain word is singular instead of plural (Gal. 3:16). So there is a place for that. I would agree that too many interpreters get into trouble trying to take this to an extreme, however---by getting either overly literal or getting extremely technical over the meaning of a single word while forgetting to look at the context, etc...

As to the Is That Scripture Quiz, yes, it was made for those who say they can "tell" what is Scripture when they read it or that the "Spirit tells them." The quiz is designed to help such folks understand how closely the Spirit guides them.

 

[Kaitlin08]

Deconversions are becoming very common because of a belief in inerrancy. People understand that the only reason this belief exists is to protect the truth of the Bible; but they want to be challenged, they want to know that the Bible is actually trustworthy, in fact, perhaps by doing the study. Told that they can't challenge, they leave Christianity, when they would have been some of the more knowledgeable Christians.

 

[ForceofTime]

As to the Is That Scripture Quiz, yes, it was made for those who say they can "tell" what is Scripture when they read it or that the "Spirit tells them." The quiz is designed to help such folks understand how closely the Spirit guides them.

How hard is it for you to "tell" if someone loves you? Should one be required to take a 'love quiz' to make sure they know for sure if another loves them?

 

[Resha Caner]

I wouldn't quite put it that way. By reason I think you meant some of the methods of textual criticism. Ultimately, the Spirit must be the driving force of understanding even if that comes by studying textual parallels, passage symmetry, or even grammar. Paul himself makes an argument from the Old Testament based on the fact that a certain word is singular instead of plural (Gal. 3:16). So there is a place for that. I would agree that too many interpreters get into trouble trying to take this to an extreme, however---by getting either overly literal or getting extremely technical over the meaning of a single word while forgetting to look at the context, etc...

As to the Is That Scripture Quiz, yes, it was made for those who say they can "tell" what is Scripture when they read it or that the "Spirit tells them." The quiz is designed to help such folks understand how closely the Spirit guides them.

Thanks for the clarification. I think we have a very similar view of the matter.

 

[Resha Caner]

Deconversions are becoming very common because of a belief in inerrancy. People understand that the only reason this belief exists is to protect the truth of the Bible; but they want to be challenged, they want to know that the Bible is actually trustworthy, in fact, perhaps by doing the study. Told that they can't challenge, they leave Christianity, when they would have been some of the more knowledgeable Christians.

That's sad. I happen to be one of those who has challenged "the establishment." I've tried to explain that digging in and giving "just because" answers drives away people like me. I won't say I was without doubts from time to time, but people have never driven me away from Christ. After all, they are people, not God. My faith is placed in God, not people.

And we who tend to be a bit inflamatory from time to time must remember a few things. First, we must not cause others to doubt or stumble by pointing out all the tricky, twisty turns of theology (Romans 14:13). Second, it has been my experience that after arguing and wrestling with some of these very difficult issues, in the end I agree with "the establishment" ... at least the LCMS, which is the church I attend.

 

[Resha Caner]

How hard is it for you to "tell" if someone loves you?

Actually, it can be quite difficult. Just ask Monica Lewinsky.

It's another topic, but I don't think many people have a good idea of what love is. They equate it with that fluttery feeling in your stomach when you're on a first date with your dream mate. Emotions and adrenalin rushes are not love. Actually, that was one of the sticking points between the Lutheran and Catholic churches during the Reformation - the definition of love (sorry Mr. Polo). We Lutherans define love as a work, and the Catholics were insisting it was not - that it was a spiritual state ... I think ... something like that. It became an issue because of "the means of grace". Both Lutherans and Catholics agree on using that phrase, but they mean different things by it. It can give one a headache.

 

[ForceofTime]

Actually, it can be quite difficult.

It can give one a headache.

If the word 'love' conjures up imagery such as this, then what does that mean for Christians?

 

[Resha Caner]

If the word 'love' conjures up imagery such as this, then what does that mean for Christians?

I'm not sure what you're getting at.