thoughts on Daniel Timeline

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

thoughts on Daniel Timeline

simplifying the key dates...

using the sabbatical set of the six day war, 1967 (Jewish rule of Jerusalem)

the founding of Israel, 1947-48 (UN order to establish Israel 1947, founding in 1948)

the 70 years of Daniel

the 50 years of the biblical jubilee

1947 + 70 = 2017

1967 + 50 = 2017

1967 - 50 = 1917 (defeat of Ottoman Empire, British rule of Jerusalem)

2017 - 7 = 2010 (start of the last 7 years)

2017 - 3.5 years = 2013.5 (trib starts in June)

the Daniel Timeline used the saying of Jesus, 'let not your flight be in winter or on the Sabbath'. This derived the date of 22nd March 2013. That seems to me to be the weakest evidence, as saying that dosnt have to mean that the A of D will be at the end of winter or not on the Sabbath.. it might be so, but the evidence seems weak.

if the A of D is a repeat of the activities of Antiochus, it cant be at June 2013, because the temple needs to be rebuilt. But the start of the trib can occur mid 2013.

I don't go along with the standard theory, that 'he' confirms a covenant with many, is talking about the antichrist, the 'he' is Jesus, confirming the covenant with many. That was the second prophetic use of the 70 weeks, not the third use, which is about the latter days and the return of Christ.

English Standard Version matt 26:28
for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

it's obvious to me anyway, that Jesus understands that he has confirmed the original covenant, and knows about the Daniel prophesy.

Daniel 9:27
And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”

the temple wasn't rebuilt after 70 AD, and eventually a total defilement occurred when the Muslims put the Shrine of the Djinn smack on top of the Holy of Holies.

Amos 5:18
Woe to you who desire the day of the LORD! Why would you have the day of the LORD? It is darkness, and not light,

 

[zeke37]

thoughts on Daniel Timeline

simplifying the key dates...

using the sabbatical set of the six day war, 1967 (Jewish rule of Jerusalem)

the founding of Israel, 1947-48 (UN order to establish Israel 1947, founding in 1948)

the 70 years of Daniel

the 50 years of the biblical jubilee

1947 + 70 = 2017

1967 + 50 = 2017

1967 - 50 = 1917 (defeat of Ottoman Empire, British rule of Jerusalem)

2017 - 7 = 2010 (start of the last 7 years)

2017 - 3.5 years = 2013.5 (trib starts in June)

the Daniel Timeline used the saying of Jesus, 'let not your flight be in winter or on the Sabbath'. This derived the date of 22nd March 2013.

imo that part was just a guess on his.

That seems to me to be the weakest evidence, as saying that dosnt have to mean that the A of D will be at the end of winter or not on the Sabbath.. it might be so, but the evidence seems weak.

Sabbath means you cant travel...
so you couldn't leave even if you saw the a of d
as for winter, there are no crops in winter.
no harvest.

so I think it's more symbolic, but at the same time,
it will be literally not on a Sabbath and not in the winter

He returns at the feast of Trumpets

if the A of D is a repeat of the activities of Antiochus, it cant be at June 2013, because the temple needs to be rebuilt. But the start of the trib can occur mid 2013.

he got the "temple of God" completely wrong.
nothing commands that a third temple be built by men, before the Coming of the Lord
"we" are the temple of God.

he blew it on that one.

I don't go along with the standard theory, that 'he' confirms a covenant with many, is talking about the antichrist, the 'he' is Jesus, confirming the covenant with many. That was the second prophetic use of the 70 weeks, not the third use, which is about the latter days and the return of Christ.

I have to disagree, but I have debated it in my head many times.
there's some negative attributes to that one
I stick with it meaning the bad guy

plus, if it was speaking of Jesus and the Law, including blood ordinances
then that would have been broken for all time
but Daniel's prophesy does not allow for that, all time

and yet Jesus says He did not come to destroy the Law, but to fulfill it,
and that not even one jot or tittle will be done away with till all things are fulfilled

anywho, no one has convinced me yet that this is speaking of Jesus


ps. Daniel's timeline author makes a drastic mistake in his calculations.
he is using the solar spring equinox as the beginning of each years count
and each years Festivals of the Lord is determined from his solar count
(like we use today with the Gregorian)

but that is completely wrong. so not only are his end time feast days wrong,
that he projects in 2016,
but his years and months are wrong too.

there could be as much as 30 -40 days difference
between God's Biblical calendar
and his predictions based on the solar calendar

English Standard Version matt 26:28
for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

it's obvious to me anyway, that Jesus understands that he has confirmed the original covenant, and knows about the Daniel prophesy.

Daniel 9:27
And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”

the temple wasn't rebuilt after 70 AD, and eventually a total defilement occurred when the Muslims put the Shrine of the Djinn smack on top of the Holy of Holies.

this prophesy starts off by describing the 70 weeks,
that the author of Daniel's timeline says means from 1947's commandment to set up an Israeli state,
until the feast of Atonement, just after the Lord's Coming.
I had thought it was the feast of trumpets as the day in question,
but that author makes a good case for it being Atonement
let's look and see who is who

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:
​

now is where the fun begins.
remember that they just spoke of Messiah.
so He does not need a different title.

but yet, there is a prince to come.....who cut off Messiah ?
again, the angel just used the word Messiah as a title for Jesus,
so this prince to come cannot be referring to the Messiah that was JUST mentioned
in the previous part of the same verse....that would be confusing
and God does not author confusion

and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;
​

Jesus did not destroy the city nor the temple.
that was well after He was Ascended
now, the price of the air is Satan.

and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
​

now, i'm not sure what license there is to change the he back to the Messiah,
but that is some's claims.
Messiah is already given a title....
plus, Messiah fulfills things, and He did not come to destroy, but to save.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
​

seems to me, that this is the end time bad guy
if you think differently, please explain why, and keep my points in mind.
I really don't know for sure, as some good points are made on both sides of the argument

Amos 5:18
Woe to you who desire the day of the LORD! Why would you have the day of the LORD? It is darkness, and not light,

yes indeed...in all of the Day of the Lord teachings in the OT, they are all negative at first,
and then reserve space for blessings to those that are ok with Him.

however, it seems clear to me that most of "us" will be expecting to be on His good side,
when we are in reality mostly hypocrites, living secular lives.
we are indeed in Babylon.

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself

i think the prince is the messiah. I couldn't figure out who the prince was, in Ezekiel's new temple descriptions, but I think it's he messiah, as I don't see who else it could be. but why is the messiah called the prince and not the king?

i'll have to think about the rest of your post.

 

[Douggg]

thoughts on Daniel Timeline

simplifying the key dates...

using the sabbatical set of the six day war, 1967 (Jewish rule of Jerusalem)

the founding of Israel, 1947-48 (UN order to establish Israel 1947, founding in 1948)

the 70 years of Daniel

the 50 years of the biblical jubilee

1947 + 70 = 2017

1967 + 50 = 2017

1967 - 50 = 1917 (defeat of Ottoman Empire, British rule of Jerusalem)

2017 - 7 = 2010 (start of the last 7 years)

2017 - 3.5 years = 2013.5 (trib starts in June)

the Daniel Timeline used the saying of Jesus, 'let not your flight be in winter or on the Sabbath'. This derived the date of 22nd March 2013. That seems to me to be the weakest evidence, as saying that dosnt have to mean that the A of D will be at the end of winter or not on the Sabbath.. it might be so, but the evidence seems weak.

if the A of D is a repeat of the activities of Antiochus, it cant be at June 2013, because the temple needs to be rebuilt. But the start of the trib can occur mid 2013.

I don't go along with the standard theory, that 'he' confirms a covenant with many, is talking about the antichrist, the 'he' is Jesus, confirming the covenant with many. That was the second prophetic use of the 70 weeks, not the third use, which is about the latter days and the return of Christ.

English Standard Version matt 26:28
for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

it's obvious to me anyway, that Jesus understands that he has confirmed the original covenant, and knows about the Daniel prophesy.

Daniel 9:27
And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”

the temple wasn't rebuilt after 70 AD, and eventually a total defilement occurred when the Muslims put the Shrine of the Djinn smack on top of the Holy of Holies.

Amos 5:18
Woe to you who desire the day of the LORD! Why would you have the day of the LORD? It is darkness, and not light,

If you work with Jubilee years - those are the choices. BUT Jubilee years is not what Jesus gave in the parable of the fig tree. It is the length of a generation that is the factor.

There is only one combination left that combines the length of a generation with the budding of the fig tree actions. The budding of the fig tree actions are (1) reformation of Israel as a nation (2) Jerusalem back in the hands of the Jews, in order to finally say "blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord" in embracing Jesus as their Messiah.

The combination is 1967 + 70 years = 2037.

2037-7 years for Daniel 9's last week, that would mean at the latest the last week will begin in 2030. But that is at the latest. The last week could begin anytime between now and 2030.

There are some other activities that must take place before the last week begins, but we don't have anyway to identify those on a calendar.


Doug

 

[zeke37]

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself

i think the prince is the messiah. I couldn't figure out who the prince was, in Ezekiel's new temple descriptions, but I think it's he messiah, as I don't see who else it could be. but why is the messiah called the prince and not the king?

i'll have to think about the rest of your post.

it's not that "Prince" that I was speaking of...
it's the next prince...

and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;
​

 

[zeke37]

If you work with Jubilee years - those are the choices. BUT Jubilee years is not what Jesus gave in the parable of the fig tree. It is the length of a generation that is the factor.

which the author says is from 1947's command to set up Israel,
until the consummation, that he pegs around 2016-2017

that's 70 years, which is a biblical generation in more than one place

it also seems that it's been around 120 Jubilee's total...real close, if you do the math...
119 I think

so who knows...2016 is a Jubilee year...and according to many, the 120th one...that's 6000 years.

(not going by the current day Jew's solar calendar,
as it is completely wrong)

There is only one combination left that combines the length of a generation with the budding of the fig tree actions. The budding of the fig tree actions are (1) reformation of Israel as a nation

which the author claims is the beginning point of the final generation

(2) Jerusalem back in the hands of the Jews, in order to finally say "blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord" in embracing Jesus as their Messiah.

which is the 119th Jubilee

The combination is 1967 + 70 years = 2037.

try 1947+70, and see where it brings you

2037-7 years for Daniel 9's last week, that would mean at the latest the last week will begin in 2030. But that is at the latest. The last week could begin anytime between now and 2030.

your statement is based on an incorrect understanding of the author's view
and/or your calculations from 1967, instead of 1947

 

[Douggg]

which the author says is from 1947's command to set up Israel,
until the consummation, that he pegs around 2016-2017

that's 70 years, which is a biblical generation in more than one place

Which doesn't work because the 7 years would have to had started before May 24, 2011. I had that theory myself, until May 24, 2011 came and went.

When did the author, if you are talking about Dewey Brunton, come up with the 2017 year? If he did it before 2011, then it could possibly have some validity back then. But not now.

Doug

 

[Douggg]

your statement is based on an incorrect understanding of the author's view and/or your calculations from 1967, instead of 1947

I am saying the author's view is wrong. Jesus did not use Jubilee years in the parable of the fig tree.

Doug

 

[zeke37]

Which doesn't work because the 7 years would have to had started before May 24, 2011. I had that theory myself, until May 24, 2011 came and went.

what does May 24th 2011 have to do with anything?
the author never claims that date.

When did the author, if you are talking about Dewey Brunton, come up with the 2017 year? If he did it before 2011, then it could possibly have some validity back then. But not now.

Doug

not sure...
Daniel's Timeline that I saw was produced well before May 2011

but I really don't know what you are trying to say?
why r u even bring up that date?

 

[zeke37]

I am saying the author's view is wrong. Jesus did not use Jubilee years in the parable of the fig tree.

Doug

no one said He did.
the Father did in Gen6, probably.
and every Jubilee since, holds something special for God's people (who ever they are)

iow, the author uses the 119th Jubilee as an explanation of 1967

and uses the final generation/fig tree (70 years)
as the time from 1947 command to set up Israel, till 2016-2017...

again, I do not think everything he said was true,
but there's a bunch there worth taking in.

 

[Douggg]

what does May 24th 2011 have to do with anything?
the author never claims that date.

He claims 1947 (not 1948) + 70 years to get 2017. I used May 24, 1948 the actual year Israel a nation again + 70 years to get 2018 minus 7 years for the last week of Daniel 9, to get May 24, 2011. But I spoke of that theory before May 24, 2011. But when May 24, 2011 came and went, and no confirmation of the covenant, my theory was proved to be wrong.

Using the author's 1947 basis to arrive at 2017, likewise by subtracting 7 years would mean the last week of Daniel 9 would have had to begin in 2010. It didn't happen.

What I am saying is that back then before 2010, the author's theory may have had some chance of turning out to be correct if he was speaking about 2017 back sometime before 2010. But when 2010 came and went, and no confirmation of the covenant, so did that theory.

Doug

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

it depends on if the 'he' is Jesus that confirms a covenant with many, and I think it is, as an antichrist would be drawing up a new covenant, not confirming a covenant, which we'v already got in place with the covenant made with the Israelites.

the declaration that Israel was to be re-formed was in 1947, in the UN. if the 70 weeks is a latter day prophesy, repeated 3 times in history, which I think is likely; that it has dual applicability. the 70 weeks starts in 1947. no need to have an antichrist make a covenant with Israel and break it mid week.
the last 7 years is the trib, with the start of the trib proper being mid week.. June 2013.

a generation is about 70 years, these days. this generation not passing away, is related to the fig tree, which is latter-days Israel. the other convincing thing about the Daniel Timeline, for me is the jubilee 50 years, 1967-50 years = 1917, the year of the Ottoman defeat and British rule of Palestine. that doesn't look like a coincidence to me.. then going back another 50 years and you get 1867, the year of the liberty of the Jews within the Austria-Hungarian Empire.
I expect you could find other significant dates if you did the research.

 

[Douggg]

it depends on if the 'he' is Jesus that confirms a covenant with many, and I think it is, as an antichrist would be drawing up a new covenant, not confirming a covenant, which we'v already got in place with the covenant made with the Israelites.

the declaration that Israel was to be re-formed was in 1947, in the UN. if the 70 weeks is a latter day prophesy, repeated 3 times in history, which I think is likely; that it has dual applicability. the 70 weeks starts in 1947. no need to have an antichrist make a covenant with Israel and break it mid week.
the last 7 years is the trib, with the start of the trib proper being mid week.. June 2013.

Brother fish, unfortunate for your argument there are 1260 days in Revelation 12 that are before Satan is cast down from heaven, and a time, times, and a half times after he is cast down.

The 1260 days before and the time, times, half times after put together are the first half and the second half of the seven years.

The covenant in Daniel 9, that the prince who shall come confirms is the Mt. Sinai covenant, and the 7 year confirming of it is already in the bible as a requirement that Moses established back in Deuteronomy 31:10-11.



Doug

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

how would we know if satan has been cast out of heaven? if he remains invisible, which angels seem to be, when on the earth, most of the time. the son of perdition becomes inhabited by satan, (as far as I know) which means that satan is a spirit, able to possess the son of perdition.

if mid-week is June 2013, then that is still to happen, but we probably wont know about it. it would be a bit obvious if an angel appeared on the earth having red skin and a fierce appearance, most people would know it was satan.

 

[Douggg]

how would we know if satan has been cast out of heaven? if he remains invisible, which angels seem to be, when on the earth, most of the time. the son of perdition becomes inhabited by satan, (as far as I know) which means that satan is a spirit, able to possess the son of perdition.

Not by sight, because Satan being exposed for the world to see, (Ezekiel 28
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.), I don't think happens until right at Jesus's coming down to this earth at the end of the 7 years in Revelation 19.

But there is a way to know that Satan has been cast down, pretty close, and that is after the two witnesses ascend to heaven, the third woe follows quickly, Revelation 11:12-14. There is only one woe left in the remainder of Revelation, to know that the third woe is Satan being cast down to earth, for the time, times, half times of the second half.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

That Satan will be worshiped during the second half of the seven years, referring to Revelation 13:4, I believe that the apparatus for doing so will be the image of the beast that the false prophet has made and gives power to it to make it come alive, Revelation 13:15 - a lying wonder, because it will be Satan himself incarnating the image for the deception.

So when that image appears to come alive and demands worship, that is how it will be possible to know that Satan has been cast down.


Doug

 

[zeke37]

He claims 1947 (not 1948) + 70 years to get 2017.

Yes douggg, that is what I said verbatim
the setting up was THE declaration in 1947,
of Israel being recognized as a country
even if they did not go there en mass, until 1948

I used May 24, 1948 the actual year Israel a nation again + 70 years to get 2018 minus 7 years for the last week of Daniel 9, to get May 24, 2011. But I spoke of that theory before May 24, 2011. But when May 24, 2011 came and went, and no confirmation of the covenant, my theory was proved to be wrong.

ok, but the author does not claim what you do, nor use the dates you do.
the actual year was 1947, not 1948.
and the bible actually says the command to set up.

in the author's view, the trib would have started before May 2011

Using the author's 1947 basis to arrive at 2017, likewise by subtracting 7 years would mean the last week of Daniel 9 would have had to begin in 2010. It didn't happen.

how do you know that?
maybe what you are looking for, as a sign, is not how it will actually be.
maybe God's sign is different than that which many of us "expect" to see.

What I am saying is that back then before 2010, the author's theory may have had some chance of turning out to be correct if he was speaking about 2017 back sometime before 2010.

he was

But when 2010 came and went, and no confirmation of the covenant, so did that theory.

Doug

again, who are you to say that it did or did not happen yet?
who am I to say it either?
we don't know everything.
we are not part of the elite govmnts of the world.

what else did Obama do during his trip to Israel last month?
do we know?
nope

and I am not convinced of Obama being the AC or anything,
just giving an example....we don't know.

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

I have been developing a theory, and it's a bit waky, but perhaps the image of the beast is the antichrist.. created by the beast, an image of the fallen, cloned from ancient material, which incorporated the 'substance' of the anak, when it was once alive, resurrected by the beast.

I wont say who I think the beast is, or who the antichrist is, as in only offends people, and no one believes it anyway.

 

[Douggg]

Using the author's 1947 basis to arrive at 2017, likewise by subtracting 7 years would mean the last week of Daniel 9 would have had to begin in 2010. It didn't happen.
​

how do you know that?

maybe what you are looking for, as a sign, is not how it will actually be.
maybe God's sign is different than that which many of us "expect" to see. how do you know that?
maybe what you are looking for, as a sign, is not how it will actually be.
maybe God's sign is different than that which many of us "expect" to see.

Well, I have talked to Jews regarding Moses's law the commenorative reading of his instructions to go and possess the land promised to them under the Mt. Sinai covenant on the 7 year cycle. Deuteronomy 31:10-11.

That reading had to be done at the place of God's choosing, which they say is the temple mount. Obviously that's not going to happen as long as the muslims are in control. After Gog/Magog things are going to change.

It not some "sign". It will be an extraordinary event that will get worldwide press, when the Antichrist as the perceived Jewish messiah oversees the reading of Moses's instruction to go in and possess the land affirming that the land belongs to the Jews - that Gog/Magog will have just gotten destroyed for trying to eradicate them from it.

That reading is actually what starts the 7 years. It is the confirming of the Mt. Sinai covenant, for the 7 year cycle required in Deuteronomy 31:10-11.

Hasn't happened yet.

Doug

 

[Strong in Him]

how would we know if satan has been cast out of heaven?

Satan HAS been cast out of heaven. He tried to overthrow God's authority, failed and was cast down to earth, with 1/3 of the angels who had followed him and joined his rebellion. He then went to the Garden of Eden, disguised as a serpent, and tempted Adam and Eve, God's creation, to rebel against their Creator.
When the angels appeared before God in Job 1, Satan said that he had been roaming about on the earth.

If Satan was in heaven now, it wouldn't be heaven. God cannot live alongside, and tolerate sin; if he could, then sinners would be able to live in harmony with him, would not need to be reconcile to him and there would have been no need for the croos.

 

[Douggg]

Satan HAS been cast out of heaven. He tried to overthrow God's authority, failed and was cast down to earth, with 1/3 of the angels who had followed him and joined his rebellion. He then went to the Garden of Eden, disguised as a serpent, and tempted Adam and Eve, God's creation, to rebel against their Creator.
When the angels appeared before God in Job 1, Satan said that he had been roaming about on the earth.

If Satan was in heaven now, it wouldn't be heaven. God cannot live alongside, and tolerate sin; if he could, then sinners would be able to live in harmony with him, would not need to be reconcile to him and there would have been no need for the croos.

There is an in between place between the earth and heaven where God's throne is, and that is the cosmos the universe. That is Satan's space. He is not restricted down to this earth yet.

Doug