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No, that is what you do. Scientists can never do that.Abiogenesis is a term that was given to mankind when reverse-engineering evolution hit a brick wall.
Basically the term means: "Just take it for granted it happened."
I wonder if reverse engineering is a good way to tackle the problem. I can't find my copy of Dawkin's book 'The Ancestors Tale' right now. Rather than saying 'This is where we started from' and working forwards, he starts with us and works backwards through time, stopping off at various points where we had a common ancestor. But I can't remember how far back he went and what his thoughts were on abiogenesis (been years since I read it).
I don't know if it might be a better approach to start with the most basic conglomeration of cells etc that all would agree with is 'alive' and then start removing aspects of it's construction until someone says 'No, that's the point where it's not alive'. And then we have what they consider to be the difference between life and non life.
To quote you:At present there no known bright line distinction between
living and non living.
Of course there is no precise definition of life.
IMO there's a continuum with no non arbitrary way to
say if something at the margin is alive or not.
I mean, the organic chemistry which is underway on Titan, (for example), is considered as being worthwhile investigating, as it would be a good test bed for some Abiogenesis models.
What kind of organic chemistry goes on there?; what reaction products persist?; how does the low temperature environment affect complex chemistry reaction processes (compared with Earth's)?, are three meaty questions arising from our own pre-biotic chemical models.
Any updates to the definition of 'life', coming from research on the surface of Titan, would be an outcome of that research ... whereas any definition of 'Earth-life' would be more or less a moot point as far as that research is concerned.
Investigation into an unknown, like the Titan organics environment, would not feature Earth-life's definition(s) .. in fact doing so, would likely just end up biasing the results.
To quote you:
"Zactly". And that is strong evidence for abiogenesis over creationism. If creationism was true one would expect to see a hard line between "alive" and "not-alive". Just as the so called "species problem" is really only a problem for creationists. The theory of evolution predicts fuzzy borders almost everywhere.
I bet it will be exciting, whatever is going on!I mean, the organic chemistry which is underway on Titan, (for example), is considered as being worthwhile investigating, as it would be a good test bed for some Abiogenesis models.
What kind of organic chemistry goes on there?; what reaction products persist?; how does the low temperature environment affect complex chemistry reaction processes (compared with Earth's)?, are three meaty questions arising from our own pre-biotic chemical models.
Any updates to the definition of 'life', coming from research on the surface of Titan, would be an outcome of that research ... whereas any definition of 'Earth-life' would be more or less a moot point as far as that research is concerned.
Investigation into an unknown, like the Titan organics environment, would not feature Earth-life's definition(s) .. in fact doing so, would likely just end up biasing the results.
Like ... say ... "genus"?I imagine they could invent an undefined word, similar to 'kinds', to confuse the issue.
The point about Titan goes, (I disagree with this approach .. but it has been published and presented by scientists): 'If there is life on Titan, it will be vastly different', (in more or less words than my quote there).I don't see that the definition(s) of life could be changed to suit some extra terrestrial environment. If it has all the characteristics of life then it's alive. If if has none, it isn't. if it has some, then...you pay your money and you make a choice.
The point about Titan goes, (I disagree with this approach .. but it has been published and presented by scientists): 'If there is life on Titan, it will be vastly different', (in more or less words than my quote there).
So, if they're going to use the word 'life' in that statement, then the statement implies (logical) self contradiction because the base bio-chemistries of life on Earth, produce the biochemical processes and products which are used to test for it .. Titan's physical and chemical environment doesn't allow for those same processes and products, so therefore detecting what we call life, won't happen using those same bio-chemical tests. So, the definition of 'life' will have to change in unknown, (at present), ways, in order to resolve the contradiction implied in the statement. That can only be done in situ .. (and not before that).
Like ... say ... "genus"?
And if "genus" doesn't qualify as a definition, would it qualify as a synonym?
What do you recommend for "child in the womb"?Wake up AV. I've just done the job for you by recommending "splurgle" as the Creationist goto word for life in all its fuzziness.
What happened to "splurgle" all of a sudden?I'll go 'Stages Of Pregnancy' for $200.
.. and those characteristics change depending on the physical context (the environment) and on the behaviours of the specimen within that context. Their preconceptions (including the definition of life) of 'how life must be', (in your scenario there), could quite easily be completely amiss in a really non-earth-like context.Let's say that they find life that is based on silicon as opposed to carbon. Utterly different to forms of life that we know. But...whatever they describe as life must satisfy the characteristics of life - whatever form it takes. So it must grow and change, react to the environment, reproduce, have a metabolism etc. Or have enough of the characteristics that define life so that we can deem it 'alive'.
OB is a creationist, is he?It's a creationist word.
.. and those characteristics change depending on the physical context (the environment) and on the behaviours of the specimen within that context.
It is!?It's a creationist word.
It is!?
The dictionary says otherwise.
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