Those who observe OT law are under a CURSE

Epoisses

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So was Paul under a curse when he brought sacrifices to the Temple AFTER his conversion?

Yes he was. I assume you're talking about his Nazirite vow. He foolishly thought he could win over the unbelieving Jews by sinking to their level. Jesus did say that he would show Saul (Paul) how great things he must suffer for his name.
 
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denim

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I was specifically pointing out that the verse says "For as many as are OF the works of the law".... You still ignored that part. I'm sure that you understand that you cannot dice scripture like that. You have to understand the WHOLE thing. :)

So, essentially, you're saying that the HS is ALL you need. Then, why do you even use a Bible? Not trying to split hairs, just trying to understand. I just saw something interesting posted on facebook. Let's see if I can find it.

What i understood by "For as many as are of the works of the law" (KJV) is "For those who are for practicisng the law ie those pro-Law doers ". Various other translations of the bible supports this view.

It does not mean "born of the law" as you are trying to imply but it means "those who support or in favour of practising the law".

In English "of" something means one is pro , in favor of or subscribes to a particular opinion or belongs to a particular group. It is different from "born of".

Gal 3:10

For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law. (NIV)

For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be every one who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, and do them. (RSV)

For all who rely on doing the works of the law are under a curse, because it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not keep on doing everything written in the book of the law. (NET)

This warning about one's inability to fulfiill the whole law is re-emphasized again in James 2:10

" For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it" James 2:10.

And the curse of the law is re-emphasized..

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree" Gal 3:13

The bible clearly states the law brings a curse.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Epoisses

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The context of the passage was that James had instructed him to do it to prove that he was NOT turning Jews away from the Law. Paul complied.

Was he Paul being deceitful by complying or was he truly NOT teaching what he had been accused of?

Paul had genuine love in his heart and still felt compassion for his unbelieving countrymen. He made the mistake of sinking to their level in the misguided belief that it would win them over. If he had been strong and true to his calling the way he was with the Galatians he would not have been put in a situation where he nearly lost his life. That's why when I see legalism today in all its myriad of shapes and forms I just tell people point blank that they are sinning against Christ and grieving the Holy Spirit.
 
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mrs94

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Yes he was. I assume you're talking about his Nazirite vow. He foolishly thought he could win over the unbelieving Jews by sinking to their level. Jesus did say that he would show Saul (Paul) how great things he must suffer for his name.

Wow, would love for you to show us evidence of this assumption.
 
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mrs94

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What i understood by "For as many as are of the works of the law" (KJV) is "For those who are for practicisng the law ie those pro-Law doers ". Various other translations of the bible supports this view.

It does not mean "born of the law" as you are trying to imply but it means "those who support or in favour of practising the law".

In English "of" something means one is pro , in favor of or subscribes to a particular opinion or belongs to a particular group. It is different from "born of".

Gal 3:10

For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law. (NIV)

For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be every one who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, and do them. (RSV)

For all who rely on doing the works of the law are under a curse, because it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not keep on doing everything written in the book of the law. (NET)

This warning about one's inability to fulfiill the whole law is re-emphasized again in James 2:10

" For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it" James 2:10.

And the curse of the law is re-emphasized..

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree" Gal 3:13

The bible clearly states the law brings a curse.

First, I did not say anything about being born of the law, I am a Gentile not Jewish. :)

Second, let's look at the scripture preceding that (and not YOUR understanding since scripture interprets scripture): Galatians 3:9 So then those who [are] of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.

So, if I as a gentile, believe by faith that Jesus has saved me and am blessed in one verse...but, choose to live my life by the rules that God established as a way for humans to live and am now cursed...even though I am not using it as my works for salvation, I'm still cursed, but wait before it said I'm blessed.....yeah, pretty confusing. I would say that someone is twisting scripture.

Let me ask you a different question...have you ever broken ANY commandment at all? As a believer or not....and then, by your own understanding you are now cursed because you did not follow the whole law even when you might have tried to follow the big 10? Why even follow any of it all by your interpretation? Why not go kill, steal and destroy so you can make completely sure that you are not "trying to follow the law"? See how ridiculous this argument is?

Did you look at my link to the break down of the 1000 "commandments" that were given to us in the NT?
 
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mrs94

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When you do something that is wrong the HS will prompt you in the heart. You can choose to obey it or ignore it.

There are many things which are not covered by the OT law but they are wrong.

We may try to justify them by saying they are legalistically not wrong, yet the HS will tell you otherwise.

For example , making false tax declarations in your tax forms may not be specifically-wrong under OT law, yet the HS will you otherwise.

Definitely NOT true, cheating someone is most DEFINITELY in the Law. Paul,himself, said the Law was a schoolmaster to know right from wrong. The thing is, the HS brings it to mind so you can remember His Ways...which is what the Lord said He would do when He would take out your heart of stone and replace it with a heart of flesh.
 
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denim

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First, I did not say anything about being born of the law, I am a Gentile not Jewish. :)

Second, let's look at the scripture preceding that (and not YOUR understanding since scripture interprets scripture): Galatians 3:9 So then those who [are] of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.

So, if I as a gentile, believe by faith that Jesus has saved me and am blessed in one verse...but, choose to live my life by the rules that God established as a way for humans to live and am now cursed...even though I am not using it as my works for salvation, I'm still cursed, but wait before it said I'm blessed.....yeah, pretty confusing. I would say that someone is twisting scripture.

Let me ask you a different question...have you ever broken ANY commandment at all? As a believer or not....and then, by your own understanding you are now cursed because you did not follow the whole law even when you might have tried to follow the big 10? Why even follow any of it all by your interpretation? Why not go kill, steal and destroy so you can make completely sure that you are not "trying to follow the law"? See how ridiculous this argument is?

Did you look at my link to the break down of the 1000 "commandments" that were given to us in the NT?

Like it or not, the law comes with a curse. It may sound ridiculous to you but sometimes we do not really understand the ways of God.

Firstly,as a gentile, the law does not apply to you. We should not claim to be following the law. Many law-specific observations eg circumcision, tithes must never be followed. The Holy Spirit will teach and guide us - only if we let Him to.

Like i said previously, the law does not have exclusive rights to "do not kill or rob". The HS will also teach you these things.

The real issue here is not can we observe the law or not? The issue is can we observe 100% of it to avoid the curse.

Galatians has been telling us this all along- if you want to obey the law, do not pick and choose but obey all or you would be under a curse.

The NT also keeps telling us that we are redeem from the law and the law no longer serves any purpose because Christ has come. Why do we need to resubmit ourselves to this yoke of bondage that brings a curse?
 
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denim

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Definitely NOT true, cheating someone is most DEFINITELY in the Law. Paul,himself, said the Law was a schoolmaster to know right from wrong. The thing is, the HS brings it to mind so you can remember His Ways...which is what the Lord said He would do when He would take out your heart of stone and replace it with a heart of flesh.

There is no specific law about cheating the government.
 
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mrs94

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That's ok, denim. You refuse to answer my questions or acknowledge my points. We keep going in circles and I am not fond of wasting time...especially, when there is so much to find out about my God.

I'll just keep on living in God's ways because they ARE life and life is better when you follow Him. :)

Read Psalm 119
 
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denim

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That's ok, denim. You refuse to answer my questions or acknowledge my points. We keep going in circles and I am not fond of wasting time...especially, when there is so much to find out about my God.

I'll just keep on living in God's ways because they ARE life and life is better when you follow Him. :)

Read Psalm 119

I choose not to answer when questions directed are of personal nature. In any debate, we debate the topic not the debater.

Strategically, i do not answer personal questions that would later open myself up for ridicule or personality attacks. Just stick to the topic.

If you are implying that i twisted the scriptures, just try explain away this if you can.

"Cursed is everyone who does not abide by ALL things written in the book of the law to perform them." Deu 27:26
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Did you join CF just so you could spew this antinomian drivel?

Antinomianism is considered heresy in most of the Christian world.
So what if he is? I agree with a lot of what he posted


.
 
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denim

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Anti nomianism - in short means justified by faith alone without the need of any moral code (OT Law?)

Christians are supposed to live by the law of the Spirit of life in christ Jesus and not the Law of Sin and Death.
There is still a law but it is written in our hearts (Hebrews 10:16). Not written by the hands of men.
Here is the reply i gave .
 
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denim

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Paul says that the law shows us that we sin so we know where to improve
its a diagnosis of sin not a cure

All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do EVERYTHING written in the Book of the Law." Gal 3:10

Here are the facts of the matter.
1. The law was given to the Jews.
2. Gentiles are not required to follow the law.
3. When a person accepted Jesus, he is no longer required to follow the OT law but he is to follow the law of the Spirit.
4. If he still insists in following the OT law (for whatever reasons) and is not able to fulfill ALL, he is under a curse
 
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