Those who observe OT law are under a CURSE

denim · Nov 18, 2012

Steve Petersen said:
Then why do you need a Bible?

I dont need the law. The law is not the bible. It is just a small subset of the bible. Didn't i explain that already?

Please reread the previous replies if u ask the questions that have already been answered.

Steve Petersen · Nov 18, 2012

Does your subset of the Bible include this verse?

2 Timoth 3:16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works

.

bugkiller · Nov 18, 2012

Steve Petersen said:
Does your subset of the Bible include this verse?

.

Yup! Does yours include Jeremiah? What about the Gospels and Acts of the Apostles?

bugkiller

mrs94 · Nov 19, 2012

It's interesting to note that the Bereans searched the scriptures to see if what Paul told them was true....however, which scriptures would they have used if they did not have the New Testament yet? Thinking further on that, if God made a big deal about His Law and the Law ended for Christians...which scriptures would they have used to prove this point?

mrs94 · Nov 19, 2012

All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."
Gal 3:10

Someone posted this scripture earlier and I wanted to ask if anyone actually saw the word "rely" in there. Messianics do not RELY on the Law. We follow God's instructions for life because as He says...they ARE life! I do not "rely" on them for my salvation, I rely on Messiah for my salvation...which is why I am no longer under a curse. Make sense?

Epoisses · Nov 19, 2012

mrs94 said:
All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."
Gal 3:10

Someone posted this scripture earlier and I wanted to ask if anyone actually saw the word "rely" in there. Messianics do not RELY on the Law. We follow God's instructions for life because as He says...they ARE life! I do not "rely" on them for my salvation, I rely on Messiah for my salvation...which is why I am no longer under a curse. Make sense?

As has already been said numerous times - the righteousness of Christ has made the law obsolete. The Holy Spirit is more than able to teach us right from wrong in every situation of life. The Law cannot do this. It is inflexible, rigid and can only condemn. The 'law' of the new covenant is God's agape love which is a perfect blend of justice and mercy and without which we will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

mrs94 · Nov 20, 2012

Epoisses said:
As has already been said numerous times - the righteousness of Christ has made the law obsolete. The Holy Spirit is more than able to teach us right from wrong in every situation of life. The Law cannot do this. It is inflexible, rigid and can only condemn. The 'law' of the new covenant is God's agape love which is a perfect blend of justice and mercy and without which we will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

I'm a Berean. Jesus, Himself, said He was foretold in the Prophets...which would logically include Him "making the law obsolete" since God's Law was a big deal to Him. Show me from the Old Testament where that statement is true as scripture backs up scripture.

Furthermore, you skipped over my post on the word "rely".

2 Timoth 3:16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works

Seems this verse is saying that The Law is now used for INSTRUCTION in righteousness, not to be relied on for salvation as the other verse says.

Epoisses · Nov 20, 2012

mrs94 said:
I'm a Berean. Jesus, Himself, said He was foretold in the Prophets...which would logically include Him "making the law obsolete" since God's Law was a big deal to Him. Show me from the Old Testament where that statement is true as scripture backs up scripture.

Furthermore, you skipped over my post on the word "rely".

2 Timoth 3:16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works

Seems this verse is saying that The Law is now used for INSTRUCTION in righteousness, not to be relied on for salvation as the other verse says.

Yes the old covenant was given for our instruction. It was given to show us the wrong way to heaven. All those who trust in it are like the foolish Galatians who have perverted the gospel of Christ. The strongest rebukes the apostle Paul ever gave out were to people like the Judaizers and Galatians who did this. They reject the righteousness of Christ and set about to establish their own righteousness based on law. Legalism is the unpardonable sin and the wine of Babylon.

denim · Nov 20, 2012

mrs94 said:
All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."
Gal 3:10

Someone posted this scripture earlier and I wanted to ask if anyone actually saw the word "rely" in there. Messianics do not RELY on the Law. We follow God's instructions for life because as He says...they ARE life! I do not "rely" on them for my salvation, I rely on Messiah for my salvation...which is why I am no longer under a curse. Make sense?

For whatever purpose you rely or trust the law in, the bible says you are under a curse. The curse is not because one rely on it for salvation rather one is cursed for failing to obey the law a humanly impossible 100%.

The bible clearly says the law is temporary till Christ come.

As for the gentiles, it makes no sense to go under the law because the law was only meant for the Jews.

mrs94 · Nov 20, 2012

Epoisses said:
Yes the old covenant was given for our instruction. It was given to show us the wrong way to heaven. All those who trust in it are like the foolish Galatians who have perverted the gospel of Christ. The strongest rebukes the apostle Paul ever gave out were to people like the Judaizers and Galatians who did this. They reject the righteousness of Christ and set about to establish their own righteousness based on law. Legalism is the unpardonable sin and the wine of Babylon.

You're still misinterpreting my point. I said, "RELY" as in rely in for salvation. Those that follow the law for the sake of trying to please the Lord and walk in His ways while relying on salvation through Jesus Christ are different from those who rely on the law to save them. Legalism is insisting that someone follow the letter of the law TO BE SAVED....hence, relying on the law.

Do you really not see two different sets of people there?

Exactly what does Matthew 5:19 mean, in your opinion?

""Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches [them], he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Notice He didn't say they wouldn't be saved but that if you taught others to break the commandments that you would be called "least in the kingdom of Heaven.

Oh, and I'm still waiting for that OT scripture that backs up your claim the Jesus made the law obsolete.

mrs94 · Nov 20, 2012

denim said:
For whatever purpose you rely or trust the law in, the bible says you are under a curse. The curse is not because one rely on it for salvation rather one is cursed for failing to obey the law a humanly impossible 100%.

The bible clearly says the law is temporary till Christ come.

As for the gentiles, it makes no sense to go under the law because the law was only meant for the Jews.

Think I've stated before that I don't rely on the Law but Jesus for my salvation. It's like giving your kids a list of rules for life (or advice) and they choose to follow it because they believe you when you say it's the right way to live.

Let me ask you a personal question. Since you believe that if we do not follow the entire Law (regardless of whether it is for obedience or salvation) 100% we are under a curse....do you now do everything you can to break it? When was the last time you have stolen or killed someone...because by your own logic, if you DON'T break the law continuously....you are under a curse. See how ridiculous that sounds? It's throwing the baby out with the bathwater....

denim · Nov 20, 2012

mrs94 said:
Think I've stated before that I don't rely on the Law but Jesus for my salvation. It's like giving your kids a list of rules for life (or advice) and they choose to follow it because they believe you when you say it's the right way to live.

Let me ask you a personal question. Since you believe that if we do not follow the entire Law (regardless of whether it is for obedience or salvation) 100% we are under a curse....do you now do everything you can to break it? When was the last time you have stolen or killed someone...because by your own logic, if you DON'T break the law continuously....you are under a curse. See how ridiculous that sounds? It's throwing the baby out with the bathwater....

Firstly, I don't follow the Law simply because the Law is meant for Jews and not Gentiles like me.

Secondly, the bible says " For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it" James 2:10.

If one cannot keep 100% of the Law , he is guilty of all and under a curse. This is what the bible clearly states in James and Galatians irregardless of what our human logic may argue whether it is idiculous or not.

Thirdly, we don't live totally with laws and regulations when we become a Christian. We now follow the more superior Law of the Spirit of Life instead of OT Law. No more adhering to the old package since the new package has been signed.

mrs94 · Nov 20, 2012

Like I said, do you now purposefully sin so you can no longer be considered following the law at all...to no longer be under a curse? Like I said, ridiculous logic....not the Bible, but yours. What the Bible says if that if you RELY on the law for salvation and fail at ONE point, THEN you are under a curse. That's pretty simple to understand AND what scripture says. But, if you insist on refusing to see that word "RELY" then you cannot make ANY kind of logical argument using this particular scripture to back up why we shouldn't at least TRY to follow God's ways. It CLEARLY pleases Him....in the same manner that your kids doing what YOU say would please you.

denim · Nov 20, 2012

mrs94 said:
Like I said, do you now purposefully sin so you can no longer be considered following the law at all...to no longer be under a curse? Like I said, ridiculous logic....not the Bible, but yours. What the Bible says if that if you RELY on the law for salvation and fail at ONE point, THEN you are under a curse. That's pretty simple to understand AND what scripture says. But, if you insist on refusing to see that word "RELY" then you cannot make ANY kind of logical argument using this particular scripture to back up why we shouldn't at least TRY to follow God's ways. It CLEARLY pleases Him....in the same manner that your kids doing what YOU say would please you.

All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." Gal 3:10

Perhaps you misread this verse. It did not say "rely on the law FOR SALVATION". There is no "FOR SALVATION" in there. You added that phrase yourself. What it means is "rely on the law for anything". eg to please God, to feel good, to please men (for good public image), to absolve one's sins, for morality, for wisdom, for instruction etc.

Similarly James 2:10 did not mention "FOR SALVATION" at all. It says that as long you are a law practiser and still break a tinnie winnie law, you are done.
"For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it" James 2:10.

The crux is if you observe the law and cannot fulfil 100% of it, you are under a curse.

Under the new covenant, we must rely on the Holy Spirit for EVERYTHING. Many Christians still cling to OT Law because they do not fully trust the Holy Spirit to guide or teach them. Perhaps it is because it requires lots of faith, practice, patience and sensitivity to listen to the Holy Spirit. And ironically many gentile christians are not asked or required to follow the Jewish law in the first place!

But the bible says "But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into ALL truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come." John 16:13

The bible says we are no longer under the law but under grace. We no longer follow the law of sin and death but we follow the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. The law of sin and death is null and void and had served its purpose. It is done away.

The scope of the verse is not narrowly confined to salvation. God essentially says stop clinging.to the old package for we have already signed the new. New wine cannot go into old wineskin for it will burst - The Holy Spirit cannot work in someone who still clings to the Law of Sin And Death.

mrs94 · Nov 29, 2012

I'm curious, Denim. Can you give me some examples on how the Holy Spirt says you should live your life to please God?

mrs94 · Nov 29, 2012

Let's look at the WHOLE verse: Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed [is] everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."

Believers in Yeshua are not under the works of the law, but the grace of His blood. Did you post this whole scripture and I just missed it somewhere? It IS a long thread.

denim · Dec 1, 2012

mrs94 said:
Let's look at the WHOLE verse: Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed [is] everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."

Believers in Yeshua are not under the works of the law, but the grace of His blood. Did you post this whole scripture and I just missed it somewhere? It IS a long thread.

It is very clear - if you practise the Law and cannot fulfill all, you are under a curse.

You don't need to add any additional words into the verse nor try to explain it does not mean what it says.

God does not put that verse in the bible and tells us it does not mean what it says.

denim · Dec 1, 2012

mrs94 said:
I'm curious, Denim. Can you give me some examples on how the Holy Spirt says you should live your life to please God?

When you do something that is wrong the HS will prompt you in the heart. You can choose to obey it or ignore it.

There are many things which are not covered by the OT law but they are wrong.

We may try to justify them by saying they are legalistically not wrong, yet the HS will tell you otherwise.

For example , making false tax declarations in your tax forms may not be specifically-wrong under OT law, yet the HS will you otherwise.

mrs94 · Dec 1, 2012

I was specifically pointing out that the verse says "For as many as are OF the works of the law".... You still ignored that part. I'm sure that you understand that you cannot dice scripture like that. You have to understand the WHOLE thing.

So, essentially, you're saying that the HS is ALL you need. Then, why do you even use a Bible? Not trying to split hairs, just trying to understand. I just saw something interesting posted on facebook. Let's see if I can find it.

mrs94 · Dec 1, 2012

The following is an interesting compilaton of how we are to live our life according to the NT.

1,050 New Testament Commands | Christian Assemblies International

The "NT law" is an extension of the "OT" law but with a higher purpose and understanding. Jesus, Himself, said that the 1st 2 commandments had ALL the Law and Prophets hanging from them.

Those who observe OT law are under a CURSE

Newbie

Senior Veteran

Well-Known Member

Follower of Yeshua

Follower of Yeshua

Well-Known Member

Follower of Yeshua

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Follower of Yeshua

Follower of Yeshua

Newbie

Follower of Yeshua

Newbie

Follower of Yeshua

Follower of Yeshua

Newbie

Newbie

Follower of Yeshua

Follower of Yeshua

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency