Those who choose Hell.......

[Asaph]

I don't think anyone actually "chooses" Hell. I think what they do is reject Christ which has the consequences of Hell. But it just doesn't sound right to say that someone chooses Hell. I don't think that any sane person would choose to go to a place of eternal torment.

That was a part of the original post in that to reject Jesus now is to be forever apart from Him and I think many people don't realize how different that existance will be. All are recipients of God's general Grace and Mercy in this life, "for He causes the sun to shine on the just and the unjust" but the hereafter will not be so for those who do not bow their knees to Him in this life.

Grace, Mercy, and Peace,
Asaph

 

[Asaph]

Hey Phooka,

Still waiting on a response to post #117.

Grace, Mercy and Peace,
Asaph

 

[EdwardAnderson]

If you believe that God loves us all and tells us to love each other. That we should forgive those that do us wrongs and injustices. That love conqueres all. That we are the children of God. Then Hell does not exist as a place where any human shall suffer due to an act of God. God loves us. God forgives us for our failings. Gods love conqueres his wrath. We are God's children he will never give up on or discard any single one of us. Fear not that God's wrath will fall upon us, He would never harm us or else he could not teach love and forgivness. This is true for every human being on this earth no matter what.

I'm sure someone will ask how I know this. Open your heart to God and not just your mind.

 

[Asaph]

If you believe that God loves us all and tells us to love each other. That we should forgive those that do us wrongs and injustices. That love conqueres all. That we are the children of God. Then Hell does not exist as a place where any human shall suffer due to an act of God. God loves us. God forgives us for our failings. Gods love conqueres his wrath. We are God's children he will never give up on or discard any single one of us. Fear not that God's wrath will fall upon us, He would never harm us or else he could not teach love and forgivness. This is true for every human being on this earth no matter what.

I'm sure someone will ask how I know this. Open your heart to God and not just your mind.

Jer 17:9
9 "The heart is deceitful above all things,
And desperately wicked;
Who can know it?
NKJV

Do you have anything a little more trustworthy to base your doctrine on?

Grace, Mercy, and Peace,
Asaph

 

[EdwardAnderson]

I think people read the bible and look for exact answers to exact questions that will exactly explain what they must do. Something you will find reliable then... read the bible but just try and understand what is trying to be said not the fine details that are open to interpretation. Any small part of the bible can be twisted to mean this and that, but if you take it as a whole and listen to its message there is but one story. That is briefly...

That we are the children of God (Adam and eve). That we should forgive those that do us wrongs and injustices (Commandments and Jesus' parables). That love conqueres all (loads of instances of love for God and vice versa). That God forgives us for our sins (at the very least in the crucifiction of Christ).

The bible today has almost become some sort of idol. If you only trust in a book to guide you then I don't know who you will become. Trust in God to show you the way and he shall.

So in a direct answer to your question "Do you have anything a little more trustworthy to base your doctrine on?". Yes I do, the bible.

 

[Asaph]

I think people read the bible and look for exact answers to exact questions that will exactly explain what they must do. Something you will find reliable then... read the bible but just try and understand what is trying to be said not the fine details that are open to interpretation. Any small part of the bible can be twisted to mean this and that, but if you take it as a whole and listen to its message there is but one story. That is briefly...

That we are the children of God (Adam and eve). That we should forgive those that do us wrongs and injustices (Commandments and Jesus' parables). That love conqueres all (loads of instances of love for God and vice versa). That God forgives us for our sins (at the very least in the crucifiction of Christ).

The bible today has almost become some sort of idol. If you only trust in a book to guide you then I don't know who you will become. Trust in God to show you the way and he shall.

So in a direct answer to your question "Do you have anything a little more trustworthy to base your doctrine on?". Yes I do, the bible.

I agree that the message of the bible is clear, simple, and to the point. But in order to do that I first accept it in it's entirety, and then I accept the message it conveys. All of it. You are picking and chosing just what you want to be true and bringing God down to your level.

If I am wrong, then no big deal, I still go to heaven with all the other sinners. But if you are wrong, you will come suddenly to stand before a God who will not be happy that you rejected Him.

As for me, I will accept the whole bible as the word of God and I will trust in Him to save me.

Grace, Mercy, and Peace,
Asaph

 

[EdwardAnderson]

"You are picking and chosing just what you want to be true and bringing God down to your level."

In fact this is exactly what I don't do and is exactly what every denomination of Christianity does. Some say you must do something, whilst others say its not vital at all. Some will say something is a crime against God and others it is not. You each decide which part of the bible is more important and interpritate it in the way you think is right. The divisions in Christianity are because people read small parts of the bible and take it to mean utterly differnt things. Such small things seperate you. Let the bible unite you with its message instead of divide you with its words.

"But if you are wrong, you will come suddenly to stand before a God who will not be happy that you rejected Him."

I do not reject God. I embrace Him and let Him into my heart because he is God. He created my soul and the seeds within my parents that made me, I love him for that, for creating life and this Earth for creating beauty, for his love and for his forgiveness to my flawed nature. As I would love my family and do anything for them, I love God and would do anything for Him. I do not however love him because some book tells me to, or because I must do to obtain salvation. Anyway this is utterly off topic.

God wants to forgive you. He wants to embrace you. But you must learn and teach yourself. We are all children to the day we die. We must all grow beyond our simple shells and when we do, then we are worthy of Him. God will not damn his children to an eternity of pain and suffering. We are each given the chance to grow and learn by ourselves, its called life. We are born innocent to the world and can be led astray. When we die, if we have chosen the wrong path then with the hand of God and his disciples we will be led back into the house of God should our freewill decide and not just dumped into a burning pit with the devil. God will never give up on us.

 

[Asaph]

"You are picking and chosing just what you want to be true and bringing God down to your level."

In fact this is exactly what I don't do and is exactly what every denomination of Christianity does. Some say you must do something, whilst others say its not vital at all. Some will say something is a crime against God and others it is not. You each decide which part of the bible is more important and interpritate it in the way you think is right. The divisions in Christianity are because people read small parts of the bible and take it to mean utterly differnt things. Such small things seperate you. Let the bible unite you with its message instead of divide you with its words.

"But if you are wrong, you will come suddenly to stand before a God who will not be happy that you rejected Him."

I do not reject God. I embrace Him and let Him into my heart because he is God. He created my soul and the seeds within my parents that made me, I love him for that, for creating life and this Earth for creating beauty, for his love and for his forgiveness to my flawed nature. As I would love my family and do anything for them, I love God and would do anything for Him. I do not however love him because some book tells me to, or because I must do to obtain salvation. Anyway this is utterly off topic.

God wants to forgive you. He wants to embrace you. But you must learn and teach yourself. We are all children to the day we die. We must all grow beyond our simple shells and when we do, then we are worthy of Him. God will not damn his children to an eternity of pain and suffering. We are each given the chance to grow and learn by ourselves, its called life. We are born innocent to the world and can be led astray. When we die, if we have chosen the wrong path then with the hand of God and his disciples we will be led back into the house of God should our freewill decide and not just dumped into a burning pit with the devil. God will never give up on us.

Wrong again. Not every creature is a child of God. To those of us who have accepted His free gift of salvation on His own terms, He has given the right to become children of God. If you have not accepted salvation through His Son, you niether know Him nor Love Him.

Jesus said "I am the way the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father but through me". John 14:6

Whether or not you accept the truth or reject it is none of my concern. That is between you and God. But I assure you there will be a reconning. The only difference is that a true Christian has settled accounts now, in this life, and all others will settle it later at the Bema seat of Christ.

I hope that's not too harsh sounding, but you went to the heart of the matter by proclaiming your love for God while rejecting His Son, which is not love of God, it is love of self.

Grace, Mercy, and Peace,
Asaph

 

[EdwardAnderson]

I would not post if I didn't want an honest opinion back.

I would say to you that Jesus is God and God is Jesus and I do not reject God and so in turn do not reject Jesus.

"The only difference is that a true Christian has settled accounts now, in this life, and all others will settle it later at the Bema seat of Christ."

I agree, but they won't burn in hell for their faults.

"I am the way the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father but through me".

You have your one interpretation of this.

"...it is love of self."

Could you clarify how I am loving myself by loving God please?

 

[soldout]

I would not post if I didn't want an honest opinion back.

I would say to you that Jesus is God and God is Jesus and I do not reject God and so in turn do not reject Jesus.

"The only difference is that a true Christian has settled accounts now, in this life, and all others will settle it later at the Bema seat of Christ."

I agree, but they won't burn in hell for their faults.

"I am the way the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father but through me".

You have your one interpretation of this.

"...it is love of self."

Could you clarify how I am loving myself by loving God please?

If a person is so entirely arrogant as to think that they have suddenly discovered what no person has been able to figure out for two thousand years, yeah I would call that love of self. I for one, do not equate what you have said here as a love of God. It has been a love of intellect, pure and simple. It is an idol, made by man, and worshiped by man. How's that?

 

[Shay2005]

If a person is so entirely arrogant as to think that they have suddenly discovered what no person has been able to figure out for two thousand years, yeah I would call that love of self. I for one, do not equate what you have said here as a love of God. It has been a love of intellect, pure and simple. It is an idol, made by man, and worshiped by man. How's that?

I agree with you. But I feel that the idol that man have made up that they worship is Jesus or any other idol that man choose to worship. I worship and praise only G-d. I dont see Jesus as G-d since He was just a man. I honestly think Christianity worship an "idol" when they speak of Christ. This may sound stupid but its how I honestly see it.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

"You are picking and chosing just what you want to be true and bringing God down to your level."

In fact this is exactly what I don't do and is exactly what every denomination of Christianity does. Some say you must do something, whilst others say its not vital at all. Some will say something is a crime against God and others it is not. You each decide which part of the bible is more important and interpritate it in the way you think is right. The divisions in Christianity are because people read small parts of the bible and take it to mean utterly differnt things. Such small things seperate you. Let the bible unite you with its message instead of divide you with its words.

"But if you are wrong, you will come suddenly to stand before a God who will not be happy that you rejected Him."

I do not reject God. I embrace Him and let Him into my heart because he is God. He created my soul and the seeds within my parents that made me, I love him for that, for creating life and this Earth for creating beauty, for his love and for his forgiveness to my flawed nature. As I would love my family and do anything for them, I love God and would do anything for Him. I do not however love him because some book tells me to, or because I must do to obtain salvation. Anyway this is utterly off topic.

God wants to forgive you. He wants to embrace you. But you must learn and teach yourself. We are all children to the day we die. We must all grow beyond our simple shells and when we do, then we are worthy of Him. God will not damn his children to an eternity of pain and suffering. We are each given the chance to grow and learn by ourselves, its called life. We are born innocent to the world and can be led astray. When we die, if we have chosen the wrong path then with the hand of God and his disciples we will be led back into the house of God should our freewill decide and not just dumped into a burning pit with the devil. God will never give up on us.

There are a few things here in what you said that you got wrong. First of all, we do not teach ourselves. God teaches us through His Holy Spirit, second, we are never "worthy of God", that is why Jesus died for our sins. It is ONLY through Jesus that God looks upon us as righteous, we can not make ourselves "worthy". Also, we all come into this world with a sinnful nature, there is none that are "innocent". All must have Jesus in order to live with God in Heaven forever. Lastly, we have until the day of our death to come to Christ, there are no "second chances" after death. You are right, God will not damn His children to an eternity of Hell and suffering, however, not all man are His children. Only those who are adopted into the family of God, through Jesus are His children.

I pray that you will get out a Bible and start reading and studying because as it stands right now, you are way off base on what God's Word actually does teach.

 

[but'n'ben]

My friend came out with the most stupid statement a few days ago. I was argueing for the truth of the Bible and he is atheist. This is what he said;

"I don't believe in God, but I fear him. If I'm going to hell, I'm gonna enjoy myself going!"

Talk about contradictory and ridiculous. I didn't know what to answer.