This will come ...

[ebia]

... when we know with 100% certainty that those are impossible.

Do we? How?

 

[R_A]

Do we? How?

Here is a helpful link:

“Omniscient is a word that means “knowing everything.” Scripture declares that God’s eyes run everywhere (Job 24:23; Psalms 33:13-15, 139:13-16; Proverbs 15:3; Jeremiah 16:17; Hebrews 4:13). He searches all hearts and observes everyone’s ways (1 Samuel 16:7; 1 Kings 8:39; 1 Chronicles 28:9; Psalms 139:1-6, 23; Jeremiah 17:10; Luke 16:15; Romans 8:27; Revelations 2:23) — in other words, he knows everything about everything and everybody all the time. Also, he knows the future no less than the past and the present, and possible events that never happen no less than the actual events that do (1 Samuel 23:9-13; 2 Kings 13:19; Psalm 81:14-15; Isaiah 48:18). Nor does he have to “access” information about things, as a computer might retrieve a file; all his knowledge is always immediately and directly before his mind. Bible writers stand in awe of the capacity of God’s mind in this regard (Psalms 139:1-6: 147:5; Isaiah 40:13-14, 28; cf. Romans 11:33-36).”
God is Omniscient – “He Sees and Knows” Everything « Conservative Perspectives from the Great Plains

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Psalm 139, 1-6:
(1) O LORD, You have searched me and known me.
(2) You know when I sit down and when I rise up; You understand my thought from afar.
(3) You scrutinize my path and my lying down, And are intimately acquainted with all my ways.
(4) Even before there is a word on my tongue, Behold, O LORD, You know it all.
(5) You have enclosed me behind and before, And laid Your hand upon me.
(6) Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; It is too high, I cannot attain to it.

 

[ebia]

Here is a helpful link:

“Omniscient is a word that means “knowing everything.” Scripture declares that God’s eyes run everywhere (Job 24:23; Psalms 33:13-15, 139:13-16; Proverbs 15:3; Jeremiah 16:17; Hebrews 4:13). He searches all hearts and observes everyone’s ways (1 Samuel 16:7; 1 Kings 8:39; 1 Chronicles 28:9; Psalms 139:1-6, 23; Jeremiah 17:10; Luke 16:15; Romans 8:27; Revelations 2:23) — in other words, he knows everything about everything and everybody all the time. Also, he knows the future no less than the past and the present, and possible events that never happen no less than the actual events that do (1 Samuel 23:9-13; 2 Kings 13:19; Psalm 81:14-15; Isaiah 48:18). Nor does he have to “access” information about things, as a computer might retrieve a file; all his knowledge is always immediately and directly before his mind. Bible writers stand in awe of the capacity of God’s mind in this regard (Psalms 139:1-6: 147:5; Isaiah 40:13-14, 28; cf. Romans 11:33-36).”
God is Omniscient - "He Sees and Knows" Everything « Conservative Perspectives from the Great Plains

-----------------

Psalm 139, 1-6:
(1) O LORD, You have searched me and known me.
(2) You know when I sit down and when I rise up; You understand my thought from afar.
(3) You scrutinize my path and my lying down, And are intimately acquainted with all my ways.
(4) Even before there is a word on my tongue, Behold, O LORD, You know it all.
(5) You have enclosed me behind and before, And laid Your hand upon me.
(6) Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; It is too high, I cannot attain to it.

Looks to me like taking some bible quotes to assert a greek philosophic presupposition rather than respecting the narrative that treats God as being variously surprised, disappointed, etc.

 

[R_A]

Looks to me like taking some bible quotes to assert a greek philosophic presupposition rather than respecting the narrative that treats God as being variously surprised, disappointed, etc.

Nope, if "even before there is a word on my tongue, Behold, O LORD, You know it all", then it impossible for him to be surprised.

When we say it's 'impossible' it is not because we "limit" God, as wayseer would have it, but because God knows too much, he already knows everything, that's why it's 'impossible' for him to be surprised. It's like saying that God can't be more round than a circle; it's a simple tautology of definitions. Once we establish omni-science, there is nothing more to "scio" (learn).

 

[Drax]

... which is one reason for getting away from theology...

Because bad theology, like bad science, is of no use to anyone...

You are just saying you don't like the philosophical conclusions of pretty much every major religion and the vast majority of philosophical systems. That is a big claim...

Yes he is...which qualifies as debating Anglican beliefs, which he is no longer allowed to do

 

[brevis]

Now where's my +5 Rules-Lawyers' Bane Sword?

 

[ebia]

Nope, if "even before there is a word on my tongue, Behold, O LORD, You know it all", then it impossible for him to be surprised.

poetic praise, not an absolute from systematic theology that trumps the narrative

I'll stick to trying to take the biblical narrative seriously, thanks

 

[wayseer]

If by responding ... an any other particle does.

I have no intention of taking this any further. If you believe God does not change then go read the Bible.

 

[wayseer]

That's what an unchanging perfect infinite essence that we call God is. It's not a person with changing opinions, additional learning, etc.

You too will benefit from reading the Bible rather than listening to what someone else tells you is in the Bible.

 

[wayseer]

When we say it's 'impossible' it is not because we "limit" God, as wayseer would have it,

Huh? Where did I say anything about 'limiting' God?

 

[R_A]

You too will benefit from reading the Bible rather than listening to what someone else tells you is in the Bible.

Reading 'pieces of the Bible' is not reading 'the Bible'.

 

[MKJ]

Looks to me like taking some bible quotes to assert a greek philosophic presupposition rather than respecting the narrative that treats God as being variously surprised, disappointed, etc.

You mean the kind of philosophic tradition Paul tells us is the same pretty much everywhere and in line with Christian teaching?

Here is the thing - you cannot just "read the Biblical narrative". That is the goal of fundamentalism, to just "see what the Bible says, and that is the truth". We all must interpret Scripture with a lens, and fundamentalism does as well - it just isn't self conscious enough to know it and so it goes unexamined. There is a good reason we talk about traditions of interpretation and apply reason to the reading of Scripture.

What you seem to be talking about - getting rid of that darned Greek rational thought - is simply getting rid of the use of reason as one lens for understanding Christianity - and franly I am rather surprised you of all people would want to go there since you are normally pretty rational in your posts. The only possible places to go once we've done that are back to fundamentalism, or to Nietzscheanism, or possibly to Cynicism. Only the first is Christian and it is not really got much to recommend it IMO.

 

[MKJ]

I have no intention of taking this any further. If you believe God does not change then go read the Bible.

Ooo I'll get one in like that too. "If you really think that God changes, go and read the Bible, and use your brain."

 

[ebia]

You mean the kind of philosophic tradition Paul tells us is the same pretty much everywhere and in line with Christian teaching?

Here is the thing - you cannot just "read the Biblical narrative". That is the goal of fundamentalism, to just "see what the Bible says, and that is the truth". We all must interpret Scripture with a lens, and fundamentalism does as well - it just isn't self conscious enough to know it and so it goes unexamined. There is a good reason we talk about traditions of interpretation and apply reason to the reading of Scripture.

What you seem to be talking about - getting rid of that darned Greek rational thought - is simply getting rid of the use of reason as one lens for understanding Christianity - and franly I am rather surprised you of all people would want to go there since you are normally pretty rational in your posts. The only possible places to go once we've done that are back to fundamentalism, or to Nietzscheanism, or possibly to Cynicism. Only the first is Christian and it is not really got much to recommend it IMO.

I'm sure you do see the difference between taking the narrative seriously, and taking the texts in fundamentalist, woodenly factual, way. Suggesting I or John Goldingay, or perhaps even Tom Wright "fundamentalist" ought to ring bells.