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This should unite ProLife AND ProChoice

Nithavela

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I know. Me too. But I don't understand WHY.
The point is to display unison and groupthink. Dissenting voices are not desired by the political right. The point is to show a united front against the political enemy, no matter the differences inside the group.

Many probably think that they will sort out their differences as soon as the political enemy is defeated. Since the political enemy will never be defeated, this means that the differences will be swept under the rug indefinetely.
 
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Goonie

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Which specific laws are Biden not enforcing that meant that, previous to their enforcement there was NO child labour, but now that Biden isn't enforcing them, there IS child labour?
I'm sure you've shared them a few times already.

Actually, since it has exactly nothing to do with the OP and thread so truly, maybe don't bother because I won't address it.
Dont worry republicans are legislating to remove protections from children working.
‘It’s just crazy’: Republicans attack US child labor laws as violations rise. So under republicans no need to worry about having to pay compensation if they maim and kill children in the workplace.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Not a single state received a “B” or an “A.” New Jersey, Ohio, Iowa, and Minnesota were the only states to receive a “C” grade.

Hooray for my home state of Ohio...I guess? (if mediocrity is something to aspire to?)


I guess I'll give my buy-in on each of the 4 criteria:

child marriage -
I guess I didn't realize that this was a thing that was going on prevelently... However, based on the standard they've set (which seems to surround officially codified law explicitly setting an age of 18), it would seem that there's a difference between "not having an explicit law for it" and "it actually being practiced". For instance, California and Washington State are among the states that fall into that category, but are child marriages a thing being practiced in either of those two places? Or is it just a case where they don't have an explicit law for it (but have other laws that would make the concern moot)?

I would also point to other conflicting laws on other matters relating to sex that would make a "no marriage until 18" tricky to enforce consistently. For instance, the age of consent, the age at which a person can get an abortion without parental consent, the age to make medical decisions without parental consent, etc... could make it tricky to make a "no marriage until 18" cohesive with the rest of the policy prescriptions.


corporal punishment -
This one I see as cut and dry, this flowchart sums it up
1676589722835.png

(this answer will undoubtedly lead to an influx of anecdotes about how "My parents spanked me, and I turned out fine!" by people who have pent up aggression and see violence as the answer to problems)


child labor -
This one I would question...it seems to rest upon whether or not a state has laws dictating the minimum ages for labor within certain sectors. A lot of the "qualification" on this would really come down to an individual level based on the maturity and physical development of the minor. For instance, they mention at a minimum age for the agriculture sector of 15. I feel like that's unreasonable for someone growing up in a "family farm" environment. 13-15 is an age with a lot of variation in terms of physical development. You have some "farm boys" who are in 8th grade who could operate a tractor, bale hay, and handle farm animals better than most adults in the US, and you have others in that age range who would look like little kids. In an age range with so much variation, setting one particular number seems arbitrary.



juvenile justice -
This one is another cut and dry one...set an age, and either you're an adult or you not at that age. "Having it both ways" is impractical.

Trying someone as an adult, not based on their age, but based on how bad the crime was is a bastardization of justice and serves no other purpose than to satisfy the vengeance-lust of the victim. If at 15 you can't buy a cigar, can't buy a beer, but can be tried as an adult for a crime, then the state needs to "show their work" with regards to how they came up with that cockamamie system. The fact that we have different ages for different things (as opposed to many other countries who have set one single age for "adulthood") is indicative of a problem.
 
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Pommer

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HTacianas

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You can click all the way to the study..

It's too bad you are not concerned about American children though. And I'm sure you're equally ambivalent to the shocking statistics of child poverty in the richest country in the world....I mean, not shocked enough to advocate for tax reform to support the poor. Because why?
Why care about born children?

View attachment 328114

Ultimately though, what bums me out, is that the poster didn't even bother to read the report to see HOW the US is failing children....THAT is how little they care; can't even spend 5 minutes reading to see if MAAAYBE US states ARE not doing right by their children.

I dunno....I guess it seems bananas to ME that 15 year olds can marry. Maybe I'm Mr Insano.

Your entire argument is a fallacy. And yes, I read the entire article. Their two big sticking points seem to be corporal punishment and trying juveniles as adults. Well I don't care about corporal punishment of children and I have used it myself. And I remember when US States began trying juveniles as adults. It was when gang members began using juveniles as hitmen to murder others on the promise that if they got caught they would be released from prison when they turned either 18 or 21. There was absolutely no deterrent against a 16 year old murdering another 16 year old. They laws were changed in response to it and a juvenile gets a hearing to determine if they can in fact be tried as an adult. Now, are you and Human Rights Watch proposing that we return to the days when a juvenile could wantonly murder another juvenile without fear of any real punishment? Where is your sympathy for their victims? Being kind to and caring for others does not mean literally letting them get away with murder. I have more sympathy for the victims than I do for the murderers. I don't want to see elderly people murdered on the streets by gang members. I don't want to see innocent children murdered on the street for refusing to join a gang. Those are just a couple of reasons why we allow juveniles to be tried as adults.
 
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rambot

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Your entire argument is a fallacy. And yes, I read the entire article. Their two big sticking points seem to be corporal punishment and trying juveniles as adults. Well I don't care about corporal punishment of children and I have used it myself. And I remember when US States began trying juveniles as adults. It was when gang members began using juveniles as hitmen to murder others on the promise that if they got caught they would be released from prison when they turned either 18 or 21. There was absolutely no deterrent against a 16 year old murdering another 16 year old. They laws were changed in response to it and a juvenile gets a hearing to determine if they can in fact be tried as an adult. Now, are you and Human Rights Watch proposing that we return to the days when a juvenile could wantonly murder another juvenile without fear of any real punishment? Where is your sympathy for their victims? Being kind to and caring for others does not mean literally letting them get away with murder. I have more sympathy for the victims than I do for the murderers. I don't want to see elderly people murdered on the streets by gang members. I don't want to see innocent children murdered on the street for refusing to join a gang. Those are just a couple of reasons why we allow juveniles to be tried as adults.
If gun rights activists will say "gun laws won't stop gun crimes", then there's no reason to believe that an adult conviction is a deterrent for a youth committing a crime.
 
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keith99

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‘It’s just crazy’: Republicans attack US child labor laws as violations rise. Child labor being legislated by republicans, giving immunity from damages if children are injured or killed in the workplace.
One situation brought up in the link you provided is really distressing. Employers get around child labor rules by making it part of a training program. So far so good, but it seems those programs take away employer liability that would be in place if kids worked under the same rules as adults.

I'm on the other side of the fence when it comes to young men under 18 doing hazardous jobs. After some storms I was doing a lot of cleanup using a chainsaw when I was 16! And my little sister was a horse net. She had her first horse before she was a teenager. Horses are dangerous in the hands of most adults, not so much in her hands or those of any of my nieces.

I find it absurd to have issues with a 17-year-old doing any civilian job while allowing military enlistment at 17.
 
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