This should end the discussion about easy grace and OSAS!

[Isaiah55:6]

I'm not one of them. You might want to google 'free grace theology' to get a sample of my theology. It's neither arminian or Calvinism.

Ok I've never studied this. The main areas I study moronism, JW's and Islam. After only a quick view of it it seems it basically teaches 'once you believe, your saved. And always saved, and it doesn't matter how you live your life and Jesus doesn't need to be Lord, only savior'

That's just what I'm seeing as it's basic summed up teaching. I apologize if I've misrepresented it, again that's just a brief reading about what it teaches.

 

[brotherjerry]

The main areas I study moronism, JW's and Islam.

I like to study Moron's too
I think you meant Mormonism

 

[Isaiah55:6]

I like to study Moron's too
I think you meant Mormonism

Haha yes I meant Mormonism not moronism. But really, Is there that much difference between the two? Lol

 

[sdowney717]

Just another false doctrine from the very pits of hell.
And many here are wasting their valuable time listening to him,
that is, our very own free grace adherent ... the FG2.

I like what the writer writes here.

The Bible teaches that, "Whoever is born of God doesn’t commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can’t sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn’t do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn’t love his brother." 1 John 3:9,10 Thus there is an inevitable correlation between one's behavior and one's salvation status.

Once saved, a person will inevitably reveal the characteristics of having been born of God. ( Recall the Fruits of the Holy Spirit list)

Besides practicing righteousness and loving other Christians, another characteristic of those who have come to share in Christ is that they will confidently endure to the end. "We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.

"Heb 3:14 And thus it is not possible for such a person to fall away, which is also part of the covenant promise, "I will make an everlasting covenant with them: I will never stop doing good to them, and I will inspire them to fear me, so that they will never turn away from me."Jer 32:40

Exactly what those who are born of God will experience.

 

[ZacharyB]

See we are kept by God for salvation and not for destruction.
God has ownership of you and will not allow you to be lost, if you're born of God.
Someone who has no faith shows they are not born of God.

This is all very warm and fuzzy and comforting, isn't it?
Easy believism ... easy grace ... greasy grace ... all the way to heaven!
Reminds me of eating the forbidden fruit in the Garden.

But, God's grace (unmerited favor) is that YOU,
with your incredibly-horrible sin nature,
actually have a chance at salvation and heaven!
However, I'm with Paul ...
running the race and hoping to win "the crown of (eternal) life".

I wish to congratulate you ... for ignoring all of the warning verses!
Here's an outstandingly-brilliant suggestion:
Why don't you provide us with some comic relief by commenting on my signature.

 

[sdowney717]

This is all very warm and fuzzy and comforting, isn't it?
Easy believism ... easy grace ... greasy grace ... all the way to heaven!

But, God's grace (unmerited favor) is that YOU,
with your incredibly-horrible sin nature,
actually have a chance at salvation and heaven!
However, I'm with Paul ...
running the race and hoping to win "the crown of (eternal) life".

I wish to congratulate you ... for ignoring all of the warning verses!
Here's an outstandingly-brilliant suggestion:
Why don't you provide us with some comic relief by commenting on my signature.

Without the power of God keeping you for salvation, all would be lost.
Yes warm and fuzzy and true, we are given eternal consolations from the Holy Spirit.
IF your born of God, you are saved, Jesus also says this, that we are eternally saved and will never perish.
Why do you not believe what Jesus says?

If the consolations are from everlasting to everlasting for those born of God, then they are eternal not temporary and can not be lost.
Zachary, you need to modify your thoughts, all these warnings are for those in the church who are not born of God, and also our own edification to not do the things they do.

2 Thessalonians 2
13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.

16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace, 17 comfort your hearts and establish you in every good word and work.

God is the power working in you to establish those good works He has ordained for those born of God to walk in.

 

[ZacharyB]

"Heb 3:14 And thus it is not possible for such a person to fall away, which is also part of the covenant promise, "I will make an everlasting covenant with them: I will never stop doing good to them, and I will inspire them to fear me, so that they will never turn away from me."Jer 32:40
Exactly what those who are born of God will experience.

Hebrews 3 (NKJV):
12 Beware, brethren,
lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;
13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,”
lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we have become partakers of Christ
if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end

This particular passage only warns about sin, but there are other hindrances.

Some verses in the NT are referring to God's special elect,
who definitely are promised eternal life,
and absolutely no one (or any thing) can snatch them out of the father's hand.
Paul wrote to exactly these, the "faithful" ones, in Ephesus.
But, even these "faithful" ones needed to be warned about sin, etc.

Then, there are others who have received the Holy Spirit at one time,
who have left the faith and run the risk of losing their salvation.
The question is:
Are these ones the tares sown amongst the wheat?
Are these ones the fruitless branches on God's tree?
Are these ones the goats wanderin' around with the sheep?
etc.
I'm working on it.

 

[ZacharyB]

"Why don't you provide us with some comic relief by commenting on my signature."

No comment, thus no comic relief.
You're hopeless, Downey.

 

[ZacharyB]

website error

 

[FreeGrace2]

One more time for emphasis. You said this:

I don't see where our being saved by grace refers directly to our being made alive. You see it because you want to see it IMO.

Nor do I see the order you espouse in vs. 8. Again - you see it because you want to see it IMO.
My whole point was in the phrase "through faith", which I usually capitalize and bold for emphasis. And you ignored it in your response.

Of course the phrase "we are saved by grace" doesn't relate to when we have been made alive. And that was never my point. The point is that we are saved through faith. Which is to say we are regenerated through faith. Because v.5 equates 'being made alive' with 'have been saved'.

You accused me of seeing what ISN'T there, when in fact, it is you who ignored what IS there.

 

[sdowney717]

"Why don't you provide us with some comic relief by commenting on my signature."

No comment, thus no comic relief.
You're hopeless, Downey.

I just stick with the facts of the scriptures.
You though warning born of God Christians they can go to the second death lake of fire and Hell is of antichrist, that is against the sound teaching of Christ.

John 10
25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me.
26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.
30 I and My Father are one.”

Jesus adds emphasis here and also identifies Himself as the Lord God, so then this is the word of both God and Christ.

All truth must conform and submit to these words of Christ else they are of Anti-Christ, meaning against what Christ has clearly said.
It is impossible to repent of false teaching, unless God grants you to repent, your going to remain in the captivity of the devil to do his will.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I just did, the writer brings up quite a few objections to free grace theology saying they actually deny Christ as Lord in regard to being obedient to Christ in their behavior.

I didn't suggest that one find an article that attacks (falsely) free grace theology.

In fact, free grace theology EMPHASIZES that Christ IS Lord. But one is not saved by "making Him Lord", which is the theology of Lordship salvation. iow, one must have an obedient lifestyle to be saved, which is false. One is saved by faith, not by lifestyle.

We know this from what Peter wrote in 1 Peter. He addressed his letter to the ELECT. So they were saved. And in 3:15 he commanded them to "sanctify Christ as Lord". This is directed at those who are already saved. Further, the crowd in Matt 7:21-23 address Christ as Lord, yet He told them that He never knew them and to depart from Him. So Lordship salvation has it all backwards.

Which means even stopping to believe, some will say such persons are still saved, since at one time they believed.
http://www.bcbsr.com/topics/freegrace.html

Because eternal life is a gift of God that is irrevocable. Rom 6:23 and Rom 11:29.

 

[sdowney717]

John 5:24
[ Life and Judgment Are Through the Son ] “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

John 6:47
Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.

John 8:51
Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death.”

John 3:3
Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

John 3:5
Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

With these 'most assuredly', Jesus says without a single doubt these truths.

And if HE says those who believe have everlasting life, meaning they are born of God, then HE also says such persons will be keeping His words.

 

[ZacharyB]

John 10:27 ...
"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me."

Just how many times duz we haff to go down this rabbit hole?

Those who qualify with the blue are good to go!
Obviously.

 

[brotherjerry]

.
running the race and hoping to win "the crown of (eternal) life".

THIS is exactly why conditional security is a false doctrine Zach. Already you have injected a notion of competition...."I get to win this, and you don't". THAT is boasting and is exactly what Paul spoke against in Ephesians.

It also shows you do not understand the crowns too well.

The 5 crowns mentioned in the New Testament are for believers. And they signify overcoming different things. None are in relation to salvation or eternal life.

The incorruptible Crown mentioned in 1 Corinthians 9 is awarded to believers who faithfully run the race, crucifying every selfish desire, lead people to Jesus. If you do not receive this when you enter Heaven, you are not kicked out of Heaven.

Crown of Rejoicing mentioned in 1 Thessalonians 2 and Daniel 12 is awarded to those who are faithful witnesses to the saving glory of God and lead souls to Jesus. This has also been called the Soul Winners Crown. Again this is not tied to salvation but how you act after salvation.

Crown of Life in James 1 is for those that have endured hardships, severe suffering, even unto death. This has also been called the Martyrs Crown. Someone like Lazarus that was outside the rich man's home would have received the Crown of Life. God does allow us to go through many trials and tribulations when we are saved, just as He did with Job. We think a trial or tribulation is figuring out how we are going to pay the utility bill, but that sort of worry is nothing compared to what the 12 Disciples endured, look at Steven...stoned to death. That may earn you the Crown of Life, not certain if worrying about the cable bill is going to do it.

Crown of Righteousness mentioned in 2 Timothy 4 is for those anxiously awaiting the return of Christ, that have lived a good righteous life here on earth. This should be the simple one for most people...should being the operative word there as many cannot even make that.

The Crown of Glory in 1 Peter 5 is the only that is specifically for a certain group of people. This is also referred to as the Pastor's Crown and is designated to those that have faithfully lead the flock.

See Zach none of the crowns are a crown of salvation. They are rewards we may receive for the life we have lived after being saved. And these rewards are what will also be placed at Christ's feet, they will survive the judgement of fire and will remain while other works will be burnt up.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Ok I've never studied this. The main areas I study moronism, JW's and Islam. After only a quick view of it it seems it basically teaches 'once you believe, your saved. And always saved, and it doesn't matter how you live your life and Jesus doesn't need to be Lord, only savior'

I've never seen that from free grace theology. They teach that God's hand of discipline can be severe to the point of physical death and loss of eternal reward for lousy lifestyle. And NONE of what I've read claims that "it doesn't matter how the believer lives". Please cite the website that indicates such nonsense because I don't believe it. There will be great suffering for the believer who rebels. Consider the incestuous man in 1 Cor 5. He was turned over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh. How does that sound like no big deal?

That's just what I'm seeing as it's basic summed up teaching. I apologize if I've misrepresented it, again that's just a brief reading about what it teaches.

I'm betting you only read websites that disagreed with the theology. They have totally and grossed misrepresented the theology. Not like that's anything new, though.

Here are the basics of free grace theology:

1. Jesus Christ died for everyone.
2. Man is free to either accept God's gift of eternal life or reject it. (free will)
3. Once saved, always saved. (eternal security)
4. Rebellion/disobedience/apostacy/etc will face God's hand of discipline, which can be extreme, to the point of death. (1 Jn 5:16)
5. A life of obedience and faithfulness will be blessed in time and rewarded in eternity.

Which of these points would you disagree with on the basis of your knowledge of Scripture?

 

[FreeGrace2]

I like what the writer writes here.

Liking what he wrote and understanding what he wrote are 2 separate issues.

The Bible teaches that, "Whoever is born of God doesn’t commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can’t sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn’t do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn’t love his brother." 1 John 3:9,10 Thus there is an inevitable correlation between one's behavior and one's salvation status.

Are you born of God? Do you still sin? How is that possible? There is only 1 correct understanding of this verse. So, please answer.

Once saved, a person will inevitably reveal the characteristics of having been born of God. ( Recall the Fruits of the Holy Spirit list)

v.9 says those born of God don't commit sin. Very plain. Are you born of God? And do you still sin?

Besides practicing righteousness and loving other Christians, another characteristic of those who have come to share in Christ is that they will confidently endure to the end. "We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.

One needs to understand what "sharing in Christ" means.

 

[FreeGrace2]

This is all very warm and fuzzy and comforting, isn't it?
Easy believism ... easy grace ... greasy grace ... all the way to heaven!
Reminds me of eating the forbidden fruit in the Garden.

Ignoring all the perforative and snarky snips, if grace isn't free, it isn't grace.

But, God's grace (unmerited favor) is that YOU,
with your incredibly-horrible sin nature,
actually have a chance at salvation and heaven!
However, I'm with Paul ...
running the race and hoping to win "the crown of (eternal) life".

Do you think he was hoping for salvation? He was not. He was hoping for reward.

 

[sdowney717]

1 John 3
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

For those born of God our sins are forgiven for His name sake, Our sins are forgotten by God. Just like they never were, we are washed clean by the blood of the Lamb. The wages of sin are death, so obviously since those born of God are eternally alive, their sins are gone, no longer have any significance to eternal life of those born of God. They are new creatures, new creations in Christ, all the old sins are gone, done away with, there is no longer any sin separation between God and those born of God , everything for them is new and fresh and clean and good.

Hebrews 8:12
For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

And Christ has put away their sin by His blood sacrifice.

Hebrews 9:26
He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

 

[FreeGrace2]

1 John 3
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

For those born of God our sins are forgiven for His name sake, Our sins are forgotten by God. Just like they never were, we are washed clean by the blood of the Lamb. The wages of sin are death, so obviously since those born of God are eternally alive, their sins are gone, no longer have any significance to eternal life of those born of God. They are new creatures, new creations in Christ, all the old sins are gone, done away with, there is no longer any sin separation between God and those born of God , everything for them is new and fresh and clean and good.

Hebrews 8:12
For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

And Christ has put away their sin by His blood sacrifice.

Hebrews 9:26
He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

All this didn't answer my question regarding 1 Jn 3:9.

Are you born of God? yes or no
Do you still sin? yes or no

Please answer so discussion may continue.