This is the worst excuse for unity I've ever seen.

[Unofficial Reverand Alex]

Recently I posted in the Prayer Wall a prayer for Christian unity. As often happens when I discuss the need for Christians to be unified, I received a lot of replies about how we're already unified if we believe in Christ.

If so, this is the worst excuse for unity I've ever seen.

Christians are currently split into 3 main groups: Catholic Christians, Orthodox Christians, and Protestant Christians. Within Orthodox Christians are a few different groups (Eastern, Greek, etc.), Catholics are split between Roman & Eastern (although these differences are merely rites), and the Protestants are split in an ungodly amount of directions; exact numbers are hard to come by, because more keep getting created, and more keep uniting. The whole idea of putting the Bible in charge of the Church has led to an insane amount of divisions & arguments, all based on different interpretations of the Bible.

To a certain degree, all Christians are unified under Christ, but we sure as hell aren't unified with each other. If you don't believe me, go to Ireland, where Protestants & Catholics are constantly at war with each other, and if you're protestant, you can tell the Catholics to stop shooting Protestants because we're all united because we're all Christian, or you could tell the Protestants to stop making car bombs for the Catholics because we're all united because we're all Christian. When your brains are blown out across the floor for being Protestant, or for being soft to the Catholics, you'll see what I mean.

Christ Himself prayed for a unity that we do not see today: "My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. "Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world. "Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them." (John 17:20-26)

This was at the institution of the Eucharist, and the Real Presence thereof. This was absolutely vital to the early Church, as every Church Father declared, and remains absolutely vital to the Catholic & Orthodox Churches. It's a declaration by Christ that made many of His followers leave Him in the Bible, and continues to make people leave His Church today. The central idea of Christianity is splitting us further today--and that's just one doctrine. Is sola scriptura Biblical? If it is, why did Protestants cut out 7 books from the all-important Bible? Is sola fide Biblical? If so, what's with all the verses about "Each will be judged according to his works", and why did Martin Luther's 95 theses speak in favor of works of love being necessary to salvation?

Just to give a snapshot of some divisive arguments that have become the norm in modern Christianity.

This website features 15 different Christian communities. If we really were unified, there would only be 1.

Please pray for something better--for less arguments, more constructive discussions, and for Irish Christians to stop killing each other.

--In defense of what I said about the Eucharist--because if we can agree on the Eucharist, that's one huge step closer to true unity.

https://churchpop.com/2016/02/02/9-church-fathers-eucharist/

 

[Tree of Life]

If only everyone would wake up and become a Presbyterian!

 

[SkyWriting]

If you don't believe me, go to Ireland, where Protestants & Catholics are constantly at war with each other, and if you're protestant, you can tell the Catholics to stop shooting Protestants because we're all united because we're all Christian, or you could tell the Protestants to stop making car bombs for the Catholics because we're all united because we're all Christian. When your brains are blown out across the floor for being Protestant, or for being soft to the Catholics, you'll see what I mean.

My wife and I went to Ireland for our Honeymoon in 2011.
None of that happens.

And the reason it had happened decades earlier was based on cultures
that had conflict over land and not on the religious differences.
One culture had not felt they had representation in politics
and as soon as they were given access to discussions the violence
ended.

 

[A_Thinker]

Christians are currently split into 3 main groups: Catholic Christians, Orthodox Christians, and Protestant Christians. Within Orthodox Christians are a few different groups (Eastern, Greek, etc.), Catholics are split between Roman & Eastern (although these differences are merely rites), and the Protestants are split in an ungodly amount of directions; exact numbers are hard to come by, because more keep getting created, and more keep uniting. The whole idea of putting the Bible in charge of the Church has led to an insane amount of divisions & arguments, all based on different interpretations of the Bible.

Yes ... things were much better under the unified auspices of the Catholic Church ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albigensian_Crusade

 

[Steve Petersen]

Kind of makes one wonder about the legitimacy of Christianity.

 

[A_Thinker]

Kind of makes one wonder about the legitimacy of Christianity.

I think that Christianity without political power works fairly well.

And that is what Christ envisioned ...

Matthew 20

25 But Jesus called them aside and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their superiors exercise authority over them. 26 But tt shall not be this way among you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, 27 and whoever wants to be first among you must be your slave — 28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many.”

 

[Petros2015]

John 11:35

 

[A_Thinker]

John 11:35

Jesus wept at Lazarus' gravesite.

Jesus effectively dealt with the situation of the strivings of His disciples among themselves.

He told them to "Stop acting like jerks" ...

 

[Mike Czaj]

Recently I posted in the Prayer Wall a prayer for Christian unity. As often happens when I discuss the need for Christians to be unified, I received a lot of replies about how we're already unified if we believe in Christ.

If so, this is the worst excuse for unity I've ever seen.

Christians are currently split into 3 main groups: Catholic Christians, Orthodox Christians, and Protestant Christians. Within Orthodox Christians are a few different groups (Eastern, Greek, etc.), Catholics are split between Roman & Eastern (although these differences are merely rites), and the Protestants are split in an ungodly amount of directions; exact numbers are hard to come by, because more keep getting created, and more keep uniting. The whole idea of putting the Bible in charge of the Church has led to an insane amount of divisions & arguments, all based on different interpretations of the Bible.

To a certain degree, all Christians are unified under Christ, but we sure as hell aren't unified with each other. If you don't believe me, go to Ireland, where Protestants & Catholics are constantly at war with each other, and if you're protestant, you can tell the Catholics to stop shooting Protestants because we're all united because we're all Christian, or you could tell the Protestants to stop making car bombs for the Catholics because we're all united because we're all Christian. When your brains are blown out across the floor for being Protestant, or for being soft to the Catholics, you'll see what I mean.

Christ Himself prayed for a unity that we do not see today: "My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. "Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world. "Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them." (John 17:20-26)

This was at the institution of the Eucharist, and the Real Presence thereof. This was absolutely vital to the early Church, as every Church Father declared, and remains absolutely vital to the Catholic & Orthodox Churches. It's a declaration by Christ that made many of His followers leave Him in the Bible, and continues to make people leave His Church today. The central idea of Christianity is splitting us further today--and that's just one doctrine. Is sola scriptura Biblical? If it is, why did Protestants cut out 7 books from the all-important Bible? Is sola fide Biblical? If so, what's with all the verses about "Each will be judged according to his works", and why did Martin Luther's 95 theses speak in favor of works of love being necessary to salvation?

Just to give a snapshot of some divisive arguments that have become the norm in modern Christianity.

This website features 15 different Christian communities. If we really were unified, there would only be 1.

Please pray for something better--for less arguments, more constructive discussions, and for Irish Christians to stop killing each other.

--In defense of what I said about the Eucharist--because if we can agree on the Eucharist, that's one huge step closer to true unity.

https://churchpop.com/2016/02/02/9-church-fathers-eucharist/

I believe that the choice of Christian unity happens on an individual basis. That is what God calls me to be responsible for. Am I willing to support, encourage, pray for, another Believer in Jesus, regardless of the label that is their particular interpretation of doctrine and practice? Don't forget that this distinction did not originate with Roman Catholic -Orthodox or Roman Catholic - Protestant. From the beginning, the Apostle Paul spoke much about division between Jewish (Law) Messianic Believers, and Gentile Believers, and in Corinth, the party of Apollos, Cephas, or Paul. It is human nature to distrust what appears different. Adding to that, some religious leaders teach that only their way is the true way of righteousness, and that even association with others is sinful. When I meet someone whose life has been filled with Jesus, I consider how I might bless them, not where I might find their walk wanting, or their thoughts errant. If their heart is after Jesus and His kingdom, they are brothers and sisters in Christ, and to be encouraged in the Faith. I remember reading the testimonies of the Chinese Christians persecuted under Communism. In prison, they all supported each other, regardless of denomination. The enemy was godlessness, not a slightly different view of the same Father and Savior. In our local community, our church (charismatic Mennonite) joins with the Roman Catholic, Methodist, and several independent churches several times a year for joint Praise services. As each group is careful to encourage the areas we share in common (Jesus is Savior and Lord, we are in need of God's grace, God is worthy of praise) we experience the unity of the Gospel of John Chap. 17 that Jesus prayed. Individually, I can do that with whomever I meet, as I recognize God's touch on their life, and our bond in Christ. There will never be religious unity, but Christian unity is available every day.

 

[Basil the Great]

Kind of makes one wonder about the legitimacy of Christianity.

My friend, if one does an extensive study of the history of Christianity, it is hard not to question it's legitimacy, at least in some respects. Looking at the authorization of torture and capital punishment in the Holy Inquisition for six centuries and the terrible abuses during the Crusades and the way the Jews have been treated by Christians for the last 1800+ years and the way the Christian Church has split into hundreds of different groups, one can only wonder.....

Just where was the Holy Spirit that was suppose to lead the Church into all truth? How could the Church have split into hundreds or even thousands of different groups? How could the Church have required Jews to wear arm bands about 1,000 years ago and this was eventually adopted by the Nazis prior to WWII? How could the Church sit by quietly as Jews were expelled from one European country after another over the centuries? How could both the Catholic Church and the Protestant groups give either direct or tacit endorsement to the murder of reportedly 40,000-60,000 during the witchcraft trials? (figure from Wikipedia) Most of those executed for witchcraft were no doubt women. Just how many of these 50,000 or so were really witches, my dear friends? What about the Thirty Years War in Central Europe in the 1600's? How could Catholics and Protestants actually go to war against each other for 30 years? What happened to Jesus' command to love one another?

Thinking about all of this, I am reminded of what Ghandi said. He thought so highly of Jesus, but not very much of his followers.

 

[dzheremi]

Within Orthodox Christians are a few different groups (Eastern, Greek, etc.)

What do you mean? Greek Orthodox Christians are Eastern Orthodox, so they're not different groups.

Catholics are split between Roman & Eastern (although these differences are merely rites), and the Protestants are split in an ungodly amount of directions; exact numbers are hard to come by, because more keep getting created, and more keep uniting. The whole idea of putting the Bible in charge of the Church has led to an insane amount of divisions & arguments, all based on different interpretations of the Bible.

If you don't believe me, go to Ireland, where Protestants & Catholics are constantly at war with each other, and if you're protestant, you can tell the Catholics to stop shooting Protestants because we're all united because we're all Christian, or you could tell the Protestants to stop making car bombs for the Catholics because we're all united because we're all Christian. When your brains are blown out across the floor for being Protestant, or for being soft to the Catholics, you'll see what I mean.

The Troubles ended 20 years ago. There are still lots of problems, mostly in terms of integration of the two communities, but the days of blowing each other up over it are mostly over, as belonging to paramilitary organizations like the IRA has been made illegal, so the groups these days that still exist under the radar are much more likely to be involved in prostitution and drug dealing than in going out and killing the other guy for being the other guy, as it's kinda hard to do that surreptitiously.

This website features 15 different Christian communities. If we really were unified, there would only be 1.

True enough, but this is one of those things that it's very easy to point out, but very difficult -- nay, impossible -- to do anything about. I mean, yes, we should all be one, but let's get real: When are you going to leave Catholicism and join the Orthodox Church? Never...or that's presumably at least as unlikely as me ever making the opposite move. And the same can be said of anyone else. If any one of us thought that we weren't in the right place, then presumably we'd be somewhere else, since in the west there's freedom of conscience and generally nobody cares what you do. So it's everyone else that should have to move, not me...unless you're a pietist, but such lukewarm people are hardly the ones who have trouble achieving 'unity' in the first place, as they'll unify with a ham sandwich if it makes them feel happy.

Please pray for something better--for less arguments, more constructive discussions, and for Irish Christians to stop killing each other.

Again, this is not really a thing that still happens. To the extent that there are occasionally still problems (which you can get a sense of at the NPR link earlier), it's way, way down from how it was when there were still open hostilities, to the point of basically being isolated/localized incidents of violence such as you might find in any place where people don't always get along but there is also not widespread open conflict.

 

[bcbsr]

Recently I posted in the Prayer Wall a prayer for Christian unity. As often happens when I discuss the need for Christians to be unified, I received a lot of replies about how we're already unified if we believe in Christ.

If so, this is the worst excuse for unity I've ever seen.

Christians are currently split into 3 main groups: Catholic Christians, Orthodox Christians, and Protestant Christians. Within Orthodox Christians are a few different groups (Eastern, Greek, etc.), Catholics are split between Roman & Eastern (although these differences are merely rites), and the Protestants are split in an ungodly amount of directions; exact numbers are hard to come by, because more keep getting created, and more keep uniting. The whole idea of putting the Bible in charge of the Church has led to an insane amount of divisions & arguments, all based on different interpretations of the Bible.

To a certain degree, all Christians are unified under Christ, but we sure as hell aren't unified with each other. If you don't believe me, go to Ireland, where Protestants & Catholics are constantly at war with each other, and if you're protestant, you can tell the Catholics to stop shooting Protestants because we're all united because we're all Christian, or you could tell the Protestants to stop making car bombs for the Catholics because we're all united because we're all Christian. When your brains are blown out across the floor for being Protestant, or for being soft to the Catholics, you'll see what I mean.

Christ Himself prayed for a unity that we do not see today: "My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. "Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world. "Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them." (John 17:20-26)

This was at the institution of the Eucharist, and the Real Presence thereof. This was absolutely vital to the early Church, as every Church Father declared, and remains absolutely vital to the Catholic & Orthodox Churches. It's a declaration by Christ that made many of His followers leave Him in the Bible, and continues to make people leave His Church today. The central idea of Christianity is splitting us further today--and that's just one doctrine. Is sola scriptura Biblical? If it is, why did Protestants cut out 7 books from the all-important Bible? Is sola fide Biblical? If so, what's with all the verses about "Each will be judged according to his works", and why did Martin Luther's 95 theses speak in favor of works of love being necessary to salvation?

Just to give a snapshot of some divisive arguments that have become the norm in modern Christianity.

This website features 15 different Christian communities. If we really were unified, there would only be 1.

Please pray for something better--for less arguments, more constructive discussions, and for Irish Christians to stop killing each other.

--In defense of what I said about the Eucharist--because if we can agree on the Eucharist, that's one huge step closer to true unity.

https://churchpop.com/2016/02/02/9-church-fathers-eucharist/

If the Eucharist is the sole basis for unity, why is the word "Eucharist" never found in the Bible. Everyone wants unity. The problem is everyone wants everyone else to agree with them, to be affiliated with their particular denomination (and yes, Catholicism and Orthodox Christianity are just denominations among the many denominations), and everyone to agree with their theology, their particular version of Christianity.

Unity cannot be forced or institutionalized. It has to come by the regenerate nature, it has to come spiritually, not by ritual.

 

[Chinchilla]

Christians are currently split into 3 main groups: Catholic Christians, Orthodox Christians, and Protestant Christians.

Christians are not split they belong to one Body of Christ .
Because leaders of these groups think otherwise does not make it true nor worthy of a war against each other .
There are no denominations in Body of Christ , you either belong there or not , hot or cold , born again or not it's simple .

The rest is doctrine which different groups have about the Scriptures .

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

The church being divided flies in the face of the exclusivity of there being but one way to enter into fellowship with God, which is what the early catholic church attempted to hold to be true, however guided or misguided that may have been. The unity of that truth is in the cross of Christ. The one essential way to Christ is entering in thru the proper gate. The wilderness tabernacle was both exclusive and inclusive. It excluded all who would not come in the one and only gate but included all who came by the prescribed way. Like most things that came from foundations I think the hold onto that which is foundational lost the meaning within the action and became a rote rule of thumb guiding the church. The root is still the same and the abiding of the branches is still the same because they are in Christ while the fruit is what can be seen as belonging or not. Because there's only one admission ticket into unity and that's knowing oneself to be hopelessly lost w/o Christ Jesus and knowing He has obtained what we could never attain to that had kept us excluded; there's only one entrance remaining into inclusiveness and that's boldly entering in by His provided way after admission of the need for a Saviour. It's still one tree grafted in.

 

[Unofficial Reverand Alex]

If the Eucharist is the sole basis for unity, why is the word "Eucharist" never found in the Bible.

Did you watch the video?

 

[Unofficial Reverand Alex]

What do you mean? Greek Orthodox Christians are Eastern Orthodox, so they're not different groups.

I was talking about Orthodoxy with a Catholic friend at college, and I made mention of there not being much difference between the different Orthodox groups. She jumped up and said, "Don't say that around my aunt!" Apparently, a branch of her family is Greek Orthodox, and they don't like to be associated with Eastern Orthodox.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I love my Christian brothers and sisters and dislike the fighting.

Problem with me is when people start talking about trying to create a religious state on earth, based on their views of what Christianity is..

I can't go there, the discussion as a whole bothers me so much it makes me physically ill.

Unity of Christians would cause the abuses of power and the murdering of heretics that once existed in the Christian church.. depending on who wins, it could turn out to be living hell because let's face it, not everyone who claims to be Christian is.

It's like the tower of Babel, unity in error.

Our human selves, the earthly nature of what we are cannot do what is suggested in this oneness such as what man wants (a single church for all) it won't work, it's never worked and it's it's man-made concept desiring power.

I can pray that Gods will be done, but the way it is now is the way I believe God has chosen, because I believe God does His Will regardless of what we do or don't do. If God wanted power singularly in One church then we would still be under Catholic rule.

But we aren't. God's will be done.

I can love all my brothers and sisters in Christ. I can add my voice to the chorus... but I cannot pray for anything against the will of God.

We've all lived with the historical stories of what happens with a singular church, and it was evil personified. I won't pray for evil, and neither can I work toward it.

I do think we should stop fighting. Period. There is no point to it.

 

[dzheremi]

I was talking about Orthodoxy with a Catholic friend at college, and I made mention of there not being much difference between the different Orthodox groups. She jumped up and said, "Don't say that around my aunt!" Apparently, a branch of her family is Greek Orthodox, and they don't like to be associated with Eastern Orthodox.

That makes no sense, but okay. Greek Orthodox are a part of the Eastern Orthodox communion, whether particular Greek Orthodox people like it or not.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Kind of makes one wonder about the legitimacy of Christianity.

To an extent, on a certain level, I think it's a relevant point, but then taking the evil one into account and his intentions, well it's difficult to deny he's the prince of the power of air, the spirit of the world that works in the sons of disobedience and works in the secularization of Churches and the blurring of distinctions between culture and the Church etc. It adds up to an almost overwhelming battle for the believer in all ways, almost discouraging to the point of throwing ones hands in the air and giving up, and I think that's how many of us are so often tempted to walk...in defeat. Logically, it could be categorized with the family of ad popullum fallacies, an argument based on popularity or arguing a majority is right because it is a majority. But we know the truth is the truth whether it's known or believed by only a boat of 8 people, 11 disciples (excluding Judas), or God alone. Consider this, God alone knew there were cures and vaccinations for diseases, but if a person could go back in time before the vaccinations were discovered, nobody would believe they would be discovered in the future.