This is terrible!!!

[notinvain]

It is terrible that there is so much division among Modern Day Christians!

Why is it that no one can agree on even the most elementary of Gospel teachings?

Why must everyone defend the way they have been taught?

Examples:

1. no one can agree on how a person becomes a Christian
2. no one can agree about what baptism is for
3. No one can agree that Chrisitans are suppose to be Christ like
4. no one can say what denominations are biblicallly sound
5. no one can agree if everyone can be saved the way the thief was saved

Why is this? Can anyone give sound reason why the Christian Church is more divided on even the most basic of scriptural teachings than any other religion?

 

[Joykins]

It is terrible that there is so much division among Modern Day Christians!

Why is it that no one can agree on even the most elementary of Gospel teachings?

Why must everyone defend the way they have been taught?

Examples:

1. no one can agree on how a person becomes a Christian
2. no one can agree about what baptism is for
3. No one can agree that Chrisitans are suppose to be Christ like
4. no one can say what denominations are biblicallly sound
5. no one can agree if everyone can be saved the way the thief was saved

Why is this? Can anyone give sound reason why the Christian Church is more divided on even the most basic of scriptural teachings than any other religion?

It all comes down to methodology.

Whether tradition informs scripture or whether scripture informs tradition. Whether the church informs scripture or whether scripture informs the church. Or some mix of the 3.

What literary methods you use in interpreting scripture. (deconstruction, historicism, reader-response, etc.)

What emphasis you place on selected scriptural passages.

The problem is that words on the page are just words on the page without the meaning that a reader applies to them. No work is totally unambiguous and scripture is no exception. There are over 60 separate works, with different authors, some of which are densely symbolic, and some of which are realtively clear but wrote 2000 or so years ago in languages which are no longer used, and others of which appear to be in conflict with the preponderance of scientific (pi=3, evolution vs. creation, etc. etc. etc.)

Of course I should just have said different hermeneutics.

 

[Mea Culpa]

It is terrible that there is so much division among Modern Day Christians!

Why is it that no one can agree on even the most elementary of Gospel teachings?

Why must everyone defend the way they have been taught?

Examples:

1. no one can agree on how a person becomes a Christian
2. no one can agree about what baptism is for
3. No one can agree that Chrisitans are suppose to be Christ like
4. no one can say what denominations are biblicallly sound
5. no one can agree if everyone can be saved the way the thief was saved

Why is this? Can anyone give sound reason why the Christian Church is more divided on even the most basic of scriptural teachings than any other religion?

It is divided because man messed it all up. Sin and pride and the desire to be in control and ignoring the Holy Spirit and the will of God have all contributed to the church being in the state that it is in.

The New Reformation is beginning...

 

[billwald]

Been going on for 2000 years. The difference between Christians and Jews is that Jewish theologians document their theological disputes in official books but Christians burn the losing side of the dispute and their books.

 

[Egghead]

It is divided because man messed it all up. Sin and pride and the desire to be in control and ignoring the Holy Spirit and the will of God have all contributed to the church being in the state that it is in.

The New Reformation is beginning...

"new reformation" ?

What I read about is this for the end times...

Now, brothers, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we beseech you, not to be quickly shaken from your mind, nor be disturbed, neither by spirit nor by word nor by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ has come.

Let no one deceive you by any means; for that day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is unveiled, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or every object of worship, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things? And now you know that which is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time.

For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will continue until one comes out of the midst. And then the lawless one will be unveiled, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth, and will destroy by the brightness of His coming, whose coming is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and in all deception of unrighteousness among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

And because of this, God will send them strong delusion, in order for them to believe the lie, so that they all might be damned who did not believe the truth, but delighted in unrighteousness.
(2Th 2:1-12 EMTV)

I see a falling away from the truth.
a fall that has already begun and is well underway.

Those who refused His truth are being deluded so that they now believe a lie.

There is no new reformation....

 

[QuantaCura]

"new reformation" ?

What I read about is this for the end times...
I see a falling away from the truth.
a fall that has already begun and is well underway.

Those who refused His truth are being deluded so that they now believe a lie.

There is no new reformation....

Yeah, I definitely agree . I think the Catechism sums it up nice:
675 Before Christ's second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers.573 The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth574 will unveil the "mystery of iniquity" in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.575

573 Cf. Lk 18:8; Mt 24:12.
574 Cf. Lk 21:12; Jn 15:19-20.
575 Cf. 2 Th 2:4-12; I Th 5:2-3; 2 Jn 7; I Jn 2:1 8, 22.

 

[linssue55]

It is terrible that there is so much division among Modern Day Christians!

Why is it that no one can agree on even the most elementary of Gospel teachings?

Why must everyone defend the way they have been taught?

Examples:

1. no one can agree on how a person becomes a Christian
2. no one can agree about what baptism is for
3. No one can agree that Chrisitans are suppose to be Christ like
4. no one can say what denominations are biblicallly sound
5. no one can agree if everyone can be saved the way the thief was saved

Why is this? Can anyone give sound reason why the Christian Church is more divided on even the most basic of scriptural teachings than any other religion?

Here is the no.1 BIGGEST problem.....christians are interpreting the bible for THEMSELVES.....No. 2 ......Pastors are not TEACHING the Bible from the original languages.....all pastors do now-a days is PREACH......NO TEACHING or very LITTLE of it.

 

[CaDan]

The process of reunification could simply mean a shortening of the lines, a contracting of the Church's perimeter, and a hardening of the shell. It could strengthen the Church against the world rather than release it for the world. And this indeed is what I fear if the biblical, liturgical and ecumenical movements of our time are not accompanied by a new Reformation.​

Bishop John A.T. Robinson ~ The New Reformation?, 1964.

Think about it.

 

[stray bullet]

It is terrible that there is so much division among Modern Day Christians!

Why is it that no one can agree on even the most elementary of Gospel teachings?

Why must everyone defend the way they have been taught?

Because people listen to themselves and work the bible to fit what they want, rather than listening to those of apostolic authority appointed specifically to end such problems, such as was done at the beginning of Christianity.

 

[holeinone]

Here is the no.1 BIGGEST problem.....christians are interpreting the bible for THEMSELVES.....No. 2 ......Pastors are not TEACHING the Bible from the original languages.....all pastors do now-a days is PREACH......NO TEACHING or very LITTLE of it.

A good Pastor ( as is mine) will be teaching some as he preaches. But often the listeners will already have some of the information in a sermon .


If a Christian is poorly taught, still needing milk and not meat it is not because of a pastor that does not teach well or a lack of sources.

There are excellent scripture study books available , there is Christian radio. Do you go to a regular bible study at least once a week , do you attend Sunday school?

My pastor is an excellent teacher, his Sunday School classes are scriptural, doctrinal with references to the original languages and historic settings.

This summer we had a lay led one that filled our sanctuary every Sunday.

Last year we also had a choice of a lay taught on on apologetics.

If you belong to a church that does not offer opportunities to grow in the Lord it may be you are in the wrong church.

If such opportunities are offered and you fail to take advantage of them that fault is not that the pastor does not "teach" in his sermons. The problem is there is not a hunger to learn.

Every man will give an account of how he spent his time here, IMHO a hunger and enthusiasm for the word of God is a marker of ones spiritual state.


2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

[holeinone]

Because people listen to themselves and work the bible to fit what they want, rather than listening to those of apostolic authority appointed specifically to end such problems, such as was done at the beginning of Christianity.

Was Peter correct when he would tell the Gentile Christians to regard Judaizing as necessary to keep peace and fellowship between them and the jews?

Where the men that listened to that authority correctly taught?

Was Peter infallible in this? Were the early church fathers infallible?

 

[QuantaCura]

Was Peter correct when he would tell the Gentile Christians to regard Judaizing as necessary to keep peace and fellowship between them and the jews?

Where the men that listened to that authority correctly taught?

Was Peter infallible in this? Were the early church fathers infallible?

You have a misunderstanding of infallibility.

Ecumenical Councils, the Pope when speaking ex cathedra to define a dogma concerning faith and morals, and the constant teaching of the bishops in union with the pope, is where infallibility resides. The Holy Spirit will not let Christ's Church fall into error, but will rather lead keep us in all Truth.

 

[stray bullet]

Was Peter correct when he would tell the Gentile Christians to regard Judaizing as necessary to keep peace and fellowship between them and the jews?

Where the men that listened to that authority correctly taught?

Was Peter infallible in this? Were the early church fathers infallible?

It's always interesting to see people argue about the authority of the apostles. Arguing over the authority of the apostles is ulimately arguing over the authority of the bible.

If you do not believe the bible to be authorative and inerrant on matters of faith, then I will continue this with you. However, if you believe so, then you can understand why I don't see a need to.

 

[holeinone]

You have a misunderstanding of infallibility.

Ecumenical Councils, the Pope when speaking ex cathedra to define a dogma concerning faith and morals, and the constant teaching of the bishops in union with the pope, is where infallibility resides. The Holy Spirit will not let Christ's Church fall into error, but will rather lead keep us in all Truth.

Indeed that is why He ordained the Reformation

 

[stray bullet]

Indeed that is why He ordained the Reformation

[bible]Matthew 16:18[/bible]

 

[holeinone]

It's always interesting to see people argue about the authority of the apostles. Arguing over the authority of the apostles is ulimately arguing over the authority of the bible.

If you do not believe the bible to be authorative and inerrant on matters of faith, then I will continue this with you. However, if you believe so, then you can understand why I don't see a need to.

I was only responding to this post of yours

Because people listen to themselves and work the bible to fit what they want, rather than listening to those of apostolic authority appointed specifically to end such problems, such as was done at the beginning of Christianity.

My question was directed to this issue. Not necessarily at papal infallibility (although given my example it might be a consideration)


Have those with "apostolic authority" ALWAYS taught correctly?

You are the one that mentioned as from the beginning and so that is where I took you.

Was Peter correct to tell the gentiles they had to be Judaizers to "keep peace" with the Jews?

If you do not wish to answer that question I understand

 

[azzy]

It is terrible that there is so much division among Modern Day Christians!

Why is it that no one can agree on even the most elementary of Gospel teachings?

Why must everyone defend the way they have been taught?

Examples:

1. no one can agree on how a person becomes a Christian
2. no one can agree about what baptism is for
3. No one can agree that Chrisitans are suppose to be Christ like
4. no one can say what denominations are biblicallly sound
5. no one can agree if everyone can be saved the way the thief was saved

Why is this? Can anyone give sound reason why the Christian Church is more divided on even the most basic of scriptural teachings than any other religion?

Well,it all comes down to who has Christ,and who doesnt,and God looks at the heart,and he hears the cry of the heart.Many in different churches will not be in heaven,although they dwell among us,they havent given thier hearts to Christ,and they dont know God(depart from me,I never knew you)
In due time the wheat and the weeds will be sepatated,until then,we walk by faith,and keep fighting.

 

[holeinone]

[bible]Matthew 16:18[/bible]

Mat 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?


Mat 16:14 And they said, Some [say that thou art] John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.


Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?


Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.


Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.


Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.


In Matt 16 Jesus asked his disciples what people were saying about Him Peter responds under the illumination of the Holy Spirit

"Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God."

Peter's CONFESSION OF FAITH IN CHRIST is the ROCK upon which the true church is built - not Peter the STONE.

Shortly later Jesus says this to Peter

Matt 16:23 "But he turned and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offense unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men"


So which is it Rock or Satan?

Not ONE apostle or early father ever even hinted that Jesus made Peter the head of the church.. Peter never claimed it for himself. Such silence is deafening. The first person to propose this was a Bishop of Rome in the 4th century. Over 300 years after Christ

Christ is the cornerstone, the stone the builders rejected.

Who did Peter believe the Rock was?

1Pe 2:4 To whom coming, [as unto] a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, [and] precious,


1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.


1Pe 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

 

[IgnatiusOfAntioch]

It is terrible that there is so much division among Modern Day Christians!

Well, it's like this, it start around the sixteenth century. . . . .

 

[Lynn73]

Indeed that is why He ordained the Reformation

You got it. I have to spread reps around before giving to you again,though.


This thead will probaly become the same old Catholic/Protestant arguments that aren't going anywhere.