This is really making me angry!

[kisstheson]

Yeah, Euchy, I'm a Christian and because I am I believe certain things:

1) You don't abuse kids.
2) You don't have sexual relations with kids.
3) You don't take advantage of people who depend on your kindness and charity
4) You don't cover for those who do.
5) You man up and take responsibility for your actions when you do wrong and accept any punishment you have coming.
6) You don't expect that once your character has been shown be suspect that you get to keep both your reputation and authority just because you're, like, you.
7) I have two people I should call father: A 75 years old guy who resembles Henry Kissinger and God and neither of them is the Pope.
8) I should defend the Church from all those who attach her whether from without and within regardless of who they are.
9) You call out people who are sinning for their own good.
10) You don't blindly follow any person who comes along with a good line of pious rap just because its pious rap.

best reply in this thread so far. gets up, shoots from the hip and then sits down. you go!

 

[Tigg]

This forgiveness deal. I recall Jesus saying - "And whosoever shall be a snare to one of the little ones who believe in me, it were better for him if a millstone were hung about his neck, and be cast into the sea." -Mark 9:43 Douay-Rheims

Those who protect or who do/did nothing are in agreement with/enable those who hurt kids. Sexual abuse. There is no way to repair the massive damage done to that child. All the counseling in the world can only at best help the kid to deal with it in the best way possible.

Noteing what judgement Jesus gives to those low lives, I hope for justice at the very least. My prayers are directed to God for those hurt by these low, nasty people. Not the abusers or enablers. I believe that God just might have justice for them at the very least, when they stand before him. And hopefully also here in this world.

I can not and will never excuse the religious of the church, be it from Priest to Pope from hiding, denying, giving perks to, or in anyway being or helping or in anyway, a part of those who abuse kids. These people within the church are themselves the gates of hell...

We, as decent people should help those children and prosecute those who abuse. May God help those kids...

 

[princess_ballet]

dear mark,

sorry, i did not say it is a small number- i stated it mirrored society, seen the newspapers lately- even women, and a lot of them school teachers- are molesting kids these days- how about that female sunday school teacher that molested and murdered a little girl, huh ?

and here the protestant denoms have twice the molestation rate and we never hear about that now do we cause they dont have the money or centralized authority to do finger pointing.

the fact is i bet 1 in 50 school teachers probably are child molestors

did you even read my post, mark or do you just twist and turn things for your own liking ?

anyway mark, it is not your Church

Protestants do it, and more often, so therefore it is ok that we do it?

No, that isn't an answer.

The only thing we should be concerned about is the fact that priests in our church are doing it and how we are handling it, not what others are doing.

And thus far, we've done a bad job doing something about it.

 

[Lady Bug]

I don't mind people getting angry at the priests or their not being held accountable for their abuses.

There is something I do mind though. Not necessarily people not attending church anymore, but people leaving the faith altogether. I mind it because the faith does not have to do with the pedophilia. The faith has nothing to do with the scandal that ensued. It just peeves me when people say that they don't want to actually be Catholic anymore because of the scandal. What does Catholicism have to do with the sex abuse?

I'm not saying anyone here is saying that. I just hear others having said it before.

 

[BAFRIEND]

Protestants do it, and more often, so therefore it is ok that we do it?

No, that isn't an answer.

The only thing we should be concerned about is the fact that priests in our church are doing it and how we are handling it, not what others are doing.

And thus far, we've done a bad job doing something about it.

i said it was okay ?

looks like you twist and turn things you read into your liking also because i never said that

the first thing you should do is apologize to the 98% of all priests who have nothing to do with any of this and actually do some research instead of listening to people tell you what to think of your Church- the fact is that while many offending priests did get moved around and stayed in the clergy- many were also prosecuted and arrested- and while many parents did not understand what was going on, many did and did nothing about it themselves and are just as accountable.

Like I said, stop painting with a broad brush because that just makes you a part of the problem yourself

how do you think it is i know the statisitics & facts and you dont ?

 

[princess_ballet]

i said it was okay ?

looks like you twist and turn things you read into your liking also because i never said that

the first thing you should do is apologize to the 98% of all priests who have nothing to do with any of this and actually do some research instead of listening to people tell you what to think of your Church- the fact is that while many offending priests did get moved around and stayed in the clergy- many were also prosecuted and arrested- and while many parents did not understand what was going on, many did and did nothing about it themselves and are just as accountable.

Like I said, stop painting with a broad brush because that just makes you a part of the problem yourself

how do you think it is i know the statisitics & facts and you dont ?

Apparently you enjoy twisting what I said too.

I have never said that all priests are bad or anything like that.

And, really, you're going to blame the parents? Based on the reactions here, can you imagine the response they would've gotten for trying to prosecute the local priest? "You're a heretic! You're not Catholic! You're a bad person!"

Give me a break.

The problem is the fact that we have church leaders that shuffled this under the rug and set these guys up at the Vatican to live out a life of luxury while these poor kids have to suffer and deal with what happened to them.

Do you think that is ok? Either you think what they did was wrong, or you think it wasn't. Let's start by establishing that.

 

[Eucharisted]

You know what really makes me angry? Dolphins! They're always chirping and doing back flips and acting all cute, but what you don't know is that they're secretly planning to take over the North Pole.



(Just trying to add some humor to the thread)

 

[princess_ballet]

Let me just clear a few things up...

First of all, as all of you should know, I take my faith seriously and I have defended the church countless times. So, I think it is really unfair when people try to tell me that I'm not being a good Catholic or I should apologize for being upset about this. Nor am I thinking of leaving the church or suggesting the church has failed in some way. I am not doing either of those things. However, this is serious. Some leaders of our church have committed very, very serious crimes. I think I have a right to be upset about this. Don't try and kick me out of the church because I'm not happy about what happened and I want someone to stand up and act like a leader.

Further, the the thing that really upsets me is the fact that bishops and cardinals have tried to cover this up. If they had dealt with it the way they should have, then I would not be so upset. It is the failure of their leadership that upsets me so much.

I do not understand how it is so hard for some of you to recognize that what these people did was bad, they acted inappropriately, and we cannot allow this to continue. I don't care if Protestants to do it too. I don't care that most priests don't do it. I don't care that the media attacks us more. All that matters is how members of our leadership failed. And all they get away with is an apology? What about those poor kids that had to suffer their entire lives?

 

[BAFRIEND]

You know what really makes me angry? Dolphins! They're always chirping and doing back flips and acting all cute, but what you don't know is that they're secretly planning to take over the North Pole.



(Just trying to add some humor to the thread)

you know these crazy dolphins continue to grow in numbers despite human consumption ? What is needed is more human consumption of dolphins

 

[BAFRIEND]

Apparently you enjoy twisting what I said too.

I have never said that all priests are bad or anything like that.

And, really, you're going to blame the parents? Based on the reactions here, can you imagine the response they would've gotten for trying to prosecute the local priest? "You're a heretic! You're not Catholic! You're a bad person!"

Give me a break.

The problem is the fact that we have church leaders that shuffled this under the rug and set these guys up at the Vatican to live out a life of luxury while these poor kids have to suffer and deal with what happened to them.

Do you think that is ok? Either you think what they did was wrong, or you think it wasn't. Let's start by establishing that.

Who exactly are you referring to when you say 'they' ?

You really don't get it now do you ?

And attributing motives, making accusations, pinning crimes on others, that is a flaw in my book.

 

[mark46]

Yes, I did read your post, more than once. And I yes, I do understand that sexual abuse within schools and the Protestant churches. The numbers are different, the ages are different, and the percentage of homosexual abuse is different. In any case, I think everyone is correct in holding the Church to a higher standard.

The Church still counts me as one of its own. The Bishop of Rome counts all Christians to be under his leadership and authority.
==================================

"My church" seems to be a concept for Christains outside of the apostolic Church communities. We may dispute who has various doctrines and dogmas correct, but RCC, EO, OO, Anglicans, Methodists and Lutherans all do believe that we belong to the one, holy, catholic and apostolic church. As I said, all the "churches" seem to think that they are the ones who stayed and the rest are those that left the one true Church, but that is another discussion entirely.

But, your point is well-taken. Even though I left the RCC only a month ago, I have much less "right" to criticize, and no such right on this site.

dear mark,

sorry, i did not say it is a small number- i stated it mirrored society, seen the newspapers lately- even women, and a lot of them school teachers- are molesting kids these days- how about that female sunday school teacher that molested and murdered a little girl, huh ?

and here the protestant denoms have twice the molestation rate and we never hear about that now do we cause they dont have the money or centralized authority to do finger pointing.

the fact is i bet 1 in 50 school teachers probably are child molestors

did you even read my post, mark or do you just twist and turn things for your own liking ?

anyway mark, it is not your Church

 

[BAFRIEND]

Let me just clear a few things up...

First of all, as all of you should know, I take my faith seriously and I have defended the church countless times. So, I think it is really unfair when people try to tell me that I'm not being a good Catholic or I should apologize for being upset about this. Nor am I thinking of leaving the church or suggesting the church has failed in some way. I am not doing either of those things. However, this is serious. Some leaders of our church have committed very, very serious crimes. I think I have a right to be upset about this. Don't try and kick me out of the church because I'm not happy about what happened and I want someone to stand up and act like a leader.

Further, the the thing that really upsets me is the fact that bishops and cardinals have tried to cover this up. If they had dealt with it the way they should have, then I would not be so upset. It is the failure of their leadership that upsets me so much.

I do not understand how it is so hard for some of you to recognize that what these people did was bad, they acted inappropriately, and we cannot allow this to continue. I don't care if Protestants to do it too. I don't care that most priests don't do it. I don't care that the media attacks us more. All that matters is how members of our leadership failed. And all they get away with is an apology? What about those poor kids that had to suffer their entire lives?

despite whatever perceived issues you may have with Church leadership, the issues involving non-clergy Catholics are about 10x greater and IMO I think the clergy has a greater right to be disappointed in the Catholic populaton then the other way around.

 

[BAFRIEND]

Hiya hiskid, long time no see buddy

 

[mark46]

I agree that the greatest effect is that folks no longer come to Church. You ask what Catholicism has to do with sex abuse.

I think that how the hierarchy of the Church deals with such scandal does indeed have something to do with one of the primary distinctives of the Catholic Church compared to the EO, OO, Anglicans, Methodists and Lutherans. The way the Vatican and the bishops deals with such issues remind some of the way that the Church dealt with corruption within its ranks 500 years ago, rightly or wrongly.

Now, as then, some are saying that the Church needs re-forming. Now, as then, those who want reform do not want to tear down the Church and form new churches. And, now, as then, there will be those who discern that it is the very distinctives of the structure and doctrine of the Catholic Church that causes the difficulty in dealing with these situations.
===============================
Make no mistake, the best thing that could happen out of these struggles is that the Church could effectively and lovingly and openly deal with these issues. This would help all concerned and bring back the flow of conversions from the Protestant churches to the Catholic Church that was evident in the 70's. 80's and 90's. This would also solidify the faith of those within the Church.

The struggles of the Church may be very important to the hierarchy of the Church, or not.

However, the struggles of the laity and p[riests are overwhelming. The cries have come out for decades now. The people and its priests are hurting. Let us pray for them.

I don't mind people getting angry at the priests or their not being held accountable for their abuses.

There is something I do mind though. Not necessarily people not attending church anymore, but people leaving the faith altogether. I mind it because the faith does not have to do with the pedophilia. The faith has nothing to do with the scandal that ensued. It just peeves me when people say that they don't want to actually be Catholic anymore because of the scandal. What does Catholicism have to do with the sex abuse?

I'm not saying anyone here is saying that. I just hear others having said it before.

 

[BAFRIEND]

Yes, I did read your post, more than once. And I yes, I do understand that sexual abuse within schools and the Protestant churches. The numbers are different, the ages are different, and the percentage of homosexual abuse is different. In any case, I think everyone is correct in holding the Church to a higher standard.

The Church still counts me as one of its own. The Bishop of Rome counts all Christians to be under his leadership and authority.
==================================

"My church" seems to be a concept for Christains outside of the apostolic Church communities. We may dispute who has various doctrines and dogmas correct, but RCC, EO, OO, Anglicans, Methodists and Lutherans all do believe that we belong to the one, holy, catholic and apostolic church. As I said, all the "churches" seem to think that they are the ones who stayed and the rest are those that left the one true Church, but that is another discussion entirely.

But, your point is well-taken. Even though I left the RCC only a month ago, I have much less "right" to criticize, and no such right on this site.

In my first post I stated that no priest should be molesting children- not that the Church should be held to an even or less standard...

Secondly, you say Church communities, Jesus stated Church, period- not churches and the fact is that while the RCC embraces Christians of denominations if they encompass belief and practice in line with the teaching of the Church- the Church has a very very dim view of Catholics who have left the Church for one of them, wiping away all the promises they made to God as a member of the RCC. Now that may seem harsh, but what you stated almost seems to condone or take lightly leaving the Church on a Catholic site advocating an opinion that directly conflicts with the teaching of the Church.

 

[namericanboy]

Simply put, this is the gates of hell rising against the Church. We know abuses go on in other institutions, but it's the Catholic Church that get all the publicity. There are other reasons for this, of course. For one, when the Catholic Church makes the claims it does about our clergy and their authority then of course it is going to be more scandalous than when your average joe commits the same crime. In a way, it's seems flattering that the world is more concerned about Catholic boys and girls than other boys and girls, however I don't think this is fair. Light needs to be shone upon and abuses remedied wherever they occur.

The gates of hell attacked the "church" from the begining..It still is under attack as a whole (protestant, catholic , orthodox). Sometimes is isn't an satanic attack against the gospel message, but man made by reaping from something sowed that was done under the banner of Christ...This hurts not only the CC but the body of Christ as a whole...Reaping of sexual sins is rampant not only in the church, but in the world in these last days....peace to you..nab

 

[AllForJesus]

Edit

 

[JimR-OCDS]

No offense intended, but this is the one thing that makes me not consider the Catholic church anymore. I would love to become Catholic, I visit a beautiful abbey several times a week. But, at this point I know I will never become Catholic because of this: It has shown the church authority is corrupt.

Yeah the Church is full of sinners.

But then, I a sinner am also in it.

Try as I might, I didn't stop sinning the day I renewed my faith.

The reason to become part of the Church is Jesus Christ.

If he's not calling you to become a Catholic, don't.

However, if he is? Well, you'll have to decide.


Jim

 

[Antigone]

Let me just clear a few things up...

First of all, as all of you should know, I take my faith seriously and I have defended the church countless times. So, I think it is really unfair when people try to tell me that I'm not being a good Catholic or I should apologize for being upset about this. Nor am I thinking of leaving the church or suggesting the church has failed in some way. I am not doing either of those things. However, this is serious. Some leaders of our church have committed very, very serious crimes. I think I have a right to be upset about this. Don't try and kick me out of the church because I'm not happy about what happened and I want someone to stand up and act like a leader.

Further, the the thing that really upsets me is the fact that bishops and cardinals have tried to cover this up. If they had dealt with it the way they should have, then I would not be so upset. It is the failure of their leadership that upsets me so much.

I do not understand how it is so hard for some of you to recognize that what these people did was bad, they acted inappropriately, and we cannot allow this to continue. I don't care if Protestants to do it too. I don't care that most priests don't do it. I don't care that the media attacks us more. All that matters is how members of our leadership failed. And all they get away with is an apology? What about those poor kids that had to suffer their entire lives?

+1

Being a priest doesn't make one above the law. There is no reason not to treat priests with respect, but there is no reason not to hold them to the same standards as mere mortals either. Sins are sins and crimes are crimes, whether they're committed by a criminal or a cardinal.

 

[HisKid1973]

Hiya hiskid, long time no see buddy

Hey BA..God Bless You...I visit here once in a while...Something changed here last year in the format..Now I have to scroll back and forth to read the whole post...Found a group of end timers on CAF that I post with...Only one of them think i'm a heretical prot.......Kim