This is really making me angry!

[princess_ballet]

I know we have a variety of threads about this, but I just saw another piece on the news about the abuse scandals and how this is "rocking" the Church in Europe.

And so what did the Cardinal do in Ireland? He apologized today.

Really? No, you should be in JAIL for conspiracy with the priests who did this. All of them should be in JAIL for what they've done -- not living cushy lives somewhere



It makes it really hard to tell people about the church and convince them to either come to mass (or come back) when this type of stuff is going on.

 

[benedictaoo]

It's a real cross for us to have to bare... it really is. I feel the laity is holding the bag.

 

[Eucharisted]

Just anger at injustice is good, but it dose not exclude compassion toward the unjust, for, though they justly deserve punishment, one also desires their salvation, as if to say: "Lord, they deserve Hell, but I beg You: Only take away their sinful hearts and give them new hearts, and they will be cured, for Hell cannot cure sin: And for their sake and Your Passion, lead them into Heaven, for I cannot judge them, I who also deserve Hell for my sins yet receive Mercy, and I cannot say their sins are worst than mine because that would be the sin of pride - for pride judges others - and I must be humble, lowly, before You!"

 

[Michie]

Just anger at injustice is good, but it dose not exclude compassion toward the unjust, for, though they justly deserve punishment, one also desires their salvation, as if to say: "Lord, they deserve Hell, but I beg You: Only take away their sinful hearts and give them new hearts, and they will be cured, for Hell cannot cure sin: And for their sake and Your Passion, lead them into Heaven, for I cannot judge them, I who also deserve Hell for my sins yet receive Mercy, and I cannot say their sins are worst than mine because that would be the sin of pride - for pride judges others - and I must be humble, lowly, before You!"

 

[benedictaoo]

I agree, it's appalling... what else is there to say? We can't defend this and we need to have a lot more compassion on those who can't accept the Church or who lose faith becuase of this.

This why scandal is called scandal, becuase scandal, scandalizes us. It makes us see the Church in a bad light and causes us to lose faith, etc.

Jesus said woe to them who cause the little ones to sin...

 

[benedictaoo]

Just anger at injustice is good, but it dose not exclude compassion toward the unjust, for, though they justly deserve punishment, one also desires their salvation, as if to say: "Lord, they deserve Hell, but I beg You: Only take away their sinful hearts and give them new hearts, and they will be cured, for Hell cannot cure sin: And for their sake and Your Passion, lead them into Heaven, for I cannot judge them, I who also deserve Hell for my sins yet receive Mercy, and I cannot say their sins are worst than mine because that would be the sin of pride - for pride judges others - and I must be humble, lowly, before You!"

Give me a break... Princess Ballet never said she wanted them to go to hell-- just jail.

I hope you don't think any clergy who is guilty is above the law where they don't have to go to jail when they break the law.

The bishops, pope has a MORAL obligation to turn over any one they know committed crimes... they have no right to give them a cushy job in the Vatican.

 

[Eucharisted]

Give me a break... Princess Ballet never said she wanted them to go to hell-- just jail.

I hope you don't think any clergy who is guilty is above the law where they don't have to go to jail when they break the law.

The bishops, pope has a MORAL obligation to turn over any one they know committed crimes... they have no right to give them a cushy job in the Vatican.

So write them a letter.

 

[Michie]

I don't think he meant that. Nor do I think princess meant hell.

 

[benedictaoo]

So write them a letter.

Seriously... you can see why this angers some people, right?

I mean if it were YOUR child, you would want those who hurt your child to go to jail, right? and not be moved to the Vatican.. right?

You can't honestly see how this can turn a whole lot of folks off... for real? You can't understand that?

How about we move all child beaters and rapist to the Vatican-- is that justice? Would that me justice or mercy?

 

[Eucharisted]

Seriously... you can see why this angers some people, right?

I mean if it were YOUR child, you would want those who hurt your child to go to jail, right? and not be moved to the Vatican.. right?

You can't honestly see how this can turn a whole lot of folks off... for real? You can't understand that?

How about we move all child beaters and rapist to the Vatican-- is that justice? Would that me justice or mercy?

You can keep talking or you can write the Holy See a letter. Or both. Or neither.

 

[Michie]

I think people are complaining not about the forgiveness & mercy aspect. But the fact the justice should be served at the same time.

 

[benedictaoo]

I really don't think writing the Holy See would do a darn bit of good. The problem is corruption and cover up, after all. me writing a letter is really going to make them do the right thing.... right...

Telling a person to do that is just passing the buck becuase you don't want to have to deal wit the real issue.

it wouldn't kill us to understand why folks are angry and leaving the Church.

 

[benedictaoo]

I think people are complaining not about the forgiveness & mercy aspect. But the fact the justice should be served at the same time.

and why isn't it? that is a very valid question to ask. Is it becuase they are above the law?

 

[frenchdefense]

You can keep talking or you can write the Holy See a letter. Or both. Or neither.

At the moment you could make a credible case that the Holy See way in on this in Germany so its kind of hard to believe that he would take any action or even care.

 

[benedictaoo]

1950 Germany for goodness sakes... the pope's brother admitted to slapping the kids around... I guess we should be lucky they weren't put in ovens... it was 1950 Germany after all.

 

[princess_ballet]

You can keep talking or you can write the Holy See a letter. Or both. Or neither.

This is one of the reasons I am upset. I shouldn't have to write a letter about this. These are the leaders of our church. They are supposed to be teaching about morality and leading by example.

Yes, we screw up. Everyone does and I can accept that and forgive them. But that does NOT mean that they should get moved to the Vatican and live in a life of comfort when they just DAMAGED a child.

And it shouldn't take a letter! Those in charge should take care of the problem when and if it happens. These guys should be in jail!

Do you realize that if the leaders had done what they should have done (turned these guys in) then this wouldn't be such a big deal? It would still be horrible for those children, but justice would be done by it.

At least if they had been turned in, I could say "yeah, people make mistakes, we're all just human." But I can't just say that. This goes beyond people making mistakes. This is the church purposely covering up these crimes and protecting child molesters!

Instead, it is our church that is covering up for these guys. If you do that, you are just as bad as the guy that did it.

We need some decisive leadership here. An apology isn't going to cut it. If someone was part of all of this, they need to get the boot.

 

[Eucharisted]

I am appalled by some of the Catholics' behavior in this thread. Are you Christians or not? Honor your Mother the Church and your father the Pope!

 

[Eucharisted]

And ask God for faith: Not that you lack it, but the more faith you have, the better, amongst a storm which tests your faith.

 

[benedictaoo]

I am appalled by some of the Catholics' behavior in this thread. Are you Christians or not? Honor your Mother the Church and your father the Pope!

what?

Listen to me and listen to me good becuase you are under the wrong impression.

We are in NO WAY obligated to obey the pope or any bishop or any clergy who led us into sin and/or who covers up evil.

In case you didn't know, molestation is a sin and the bishops sinned by covering up.

They say they are sorry... they knew not what they were doing, the poor baby preists are sick and needed to be shuffled around... okay fine, but what do they go and do NOW that they do know what they did was wrong? Allow the accused to defect to the Vatican and escape having to answer the allegations.

I'll be blunt- that really sucks and it makes the Church really look bad to outsiders who already think the Church is nuts.

So what happens, we, the lowly laity are left holding the bag, having to make excuses, defend the preists and bishops and lord knows what else.

Well you know, we should never have been put in that position.. so YOU can go on making excuses and defending those who harmed children and ruined their faith and their lives...

I'm not defending it anymore... know why? Because I'm smart enough to know that I'm defending EVIL, not good.

The preist and the bishops who knew, all need to be handed over and allow justice to be served.

I will never tell a person who is angry that they have no right to be because you know what? They do and being angry over something that is outrageously wrong is not a sin. It's only a sin when we act on that anger and wish ill will on a person.

No one here done that.

 

[mark46]

Because we have faith, we shouldn't want and expect the guilty to go to jail? I don't get it. It might be different if the laity knew that the priests involved would never do parish work again and would be secluded and cared for by the Church.

======================
I just moved from the Boston, MA area where we lived through this for several years. One asks what we should expect the Church beyond apologizing and forgiving.

Well, perhaps the pattern of what happened in the Boston area will be repeated. Priests will be moved from parish work to running boy's camps. The priests who come forward to their superiors will be told to pray about their issues. The cardinal will be promoted into a top job at the Vatican. His assistant will be made bishop in a neighboring diocese.

In the end, how many bishops were removed for their many, many decisions in assigning of priests, dealing with the issues, and in their leadership over the seminaries?
I apologize if I have offended and have not simply listened to the Holy Father whose offices did worse than nothing to help us. And yes, it was and is the laity who paid and their children. And the priests, both those involved and those who were not, will never be the same.