"This is My Body"

[jimmyjimmy]

To my Lutheran and RC friends, Jesus is neither a gate nor a loaf of bread. These are metaphors. BTW, I do take the Bible as literally true, but some is literally history, some is literally poetry, and some is literally metaphor.

I am the bread of life

I am the light of the world

I am the true vine

I am the gate for the sheep

I am the way

I am the good shepherd

If you disagree, how do you make a distinction between Jesus as a gate and Jesus as bread? Why is one metaphor and the other not?

 

[Cappadocious]

Context.

 

[EvangelCatholic]

To my Lutheran and RC friends, Jesus is neither a gate nor a loaf of bread. These are metaphors. BTW, I do take the Bible as literally true, but some is literally history, some is literally poetry, and some is literally metaphor.

I am the bread of life

I am the light of the world

I am the true vine

I am the gate for the sheep

I am the way

I am the good shepherd

If you disagree, how do you make a distinction between Jesus as a gate and Jesus as bread? Why is one metaphor and the other not?

For Lutherans it is a holy mystery of the Real Presence. We take Christ's word literally as it applies to the blessed Sacrament. Christ as the gate to Heaven as fulfilled in the Eucharist, if that makes sense.

 

[Liberasit]

To my Lutheran and RC friends, Jesus is neither a gate nor a loaf of bread. These are metaphors. BTW, I do take the Bible as literally true, but some is literally history, some is literally poetry, and some is literally metaphor.

I am the bread of life

I am the light of the world

I am the true vine

I am the gate for the sheep

I am the way

I am the good shepherd

If you disagree, how do you make a distinction between Jesus as a gate and Jesus as bread? Why is one metaphor and the other not?

I think a metaphors can be something that was meaningful to the people at the time.

For example, bread was a staple food. If Jesus had lived in China, perhaps he would have said, "I am the rice of life"

 

[Knee V]

Context.

^This

 

[Wigglesworth]

To my Lutheran and RC friends, Jesus is neither a gate nor a loaf of bread. These are metaphors. ... I am the bread of life ... If you disagree, how do you make a distinction between Jesus as a gate and Jesus as bread? Why is one metaphor and the other not?

The context includes Holy Scripture, Holy Tradition, and history. During the Last Supper, at the institution of the Eucharist, Jesus broke bread and said, "This is my body." We learn from the Apostolic Fathers, those men who lived during the lives of the first Apostles, that the bread of the Eucharist is the Body of Christ.

The offering of bread and wine by Melchizadek was a sign of the offering to come, the offering of God himself, incarnate in Jesus Christ. We partake in that offering by accepting Him as our food, our life. In chapter 6 of John's Gospel, those who rejected His life in the bread left Him.

In the total context, the bread is really much different than the metaphors mentioned above.

 

[Rhamiel]

how many times does Jesus use the term door to refer to Himself?
does he mix analogies with this?

with the Bread of Life, this is My Body, I am the bread come down from heaven, take and eat
Jesus seems to go on in this line of thought much more then when He talks about vines or doorways
this leads me to believe that the meaning behind these words is much deeper then just a common metaphor
also the Gospels are very short, how many times does it talk about His disciples leaving Him?
the only time I can think of is when some of them were disgusted with what He had to say about eating His body
so this also adds weight to those words

 

[PaladinValer]

John 6 shows that He was being literal. Jesus in chapter 3 corrects Nicodemus when he took the Lord literally, but Jesus affirms the crowd's taking of His words literally three chapters later.

Thus, it is the Vatican Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans, Old Catholics, Oriental Orthodox, and Moravians who are right.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I think a metaphors can be something that was meaningful to the people at the time.

For example, bread was a staple food. If Jesus had lived in China, perhaps he would have said, "I am the rice of life"

That would be true in southern China. In northern China he might have said, "I am the noodle of life."

 

[yogosans14]

Who cares?im not trying to make the sacrament of communion not important but I don't think God cares if we get These terms "transubstation" or "consubstation" right...I see the Eucharist As a mystery. Not something we need to make legalistic and say "well if you don't accept such and such doctrine then you can't partake" it's all legalistic nonsense. The Lords supper is for all believers.

 

[Wigglesworth]

. . . I don't think God cares if we get These terms "transubstation" or "consubstation" right...I see the Eucharist As a mystery. Not something we need to make legalistic and say "well if you don't accept such and such doctrine then you can't partake" it's all legalistic nonsense. The Lords supper is for all believers.

Some believers believe that it would be sin to deny a truth of the faith while receiving the sacrament. Some believers don't believe in the truth of the faith in which other believers believe, so they don't believe it should be an issue of contention.

It's an issue of contention, because some believe it is a doctrine of the faith, and some do not. This is why there are Lutherans and Baptists.

 

[Wryetui]

Yes, there are things that may be interpreted, but I think Christ was rather clear about the Last Supper: "This IS my body" and "This IS my blood", I see no metaphor there.

 

[TheBarrd]

I find the notion that the bread and wine turn into actual flesh and blood kind of nauseating. I just do not see the Lord giving us human flesh and blood to eat and drink.

What very few people know is that Jesus was celebrating something called "The Fast of the Firstborn". Friday, the "day of preparation" was the day Christ was crucified. The Roman soldiers were under orders to have it the executions all over with by sundown, because the next day was the Jews Passover. The Passover meal would not happen till the day after the crucifixion.

We are to celebrate this fast "in remembrance" of Him.

 

[Wryetui]

The Eucharist was seen as the most important part of the christian liturgy, of the christian religion and of the christian cult since the beginning, it is vital and it is crucial. Christ knew it when He instituted it, all the christians, the saints, the Fathers saw it that way until the Protestant Reform when they ditched the most important and crucial part of christianity.

Matthey 26:26-28 -


26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, “Take, eat; this is My body.”
27 Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


We find the same in Mark chapter 14:22-24.


Luke 22, 19-20
19 And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”
20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.


John 6, 51-56 offers us the most clear statement that the bread and the body is TRULY the Body of our Lord:


51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”
52 The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?”
53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.



But not only Jesus said it (if that wasn't enough), the Apostles considered it to be real too:

1 Corinthians 11:24-25
24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “Take, eat; this is My body which is broken for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”


27:30

27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep.

 

[TheBarrd]

My writer's mind wants to know...
Why was Jesus having a Passover meal, when it wasn't yet the time for the Passover meal? What was He really doing?
And it turns out that what He was really doing was something called "The Fast of the Firstborn. Traditionally, one breaks that fast going into the day of preparation, which would have been Friday, which would have begun at sunset Thursday evening, and lasted till sunset Friday evening. The actual Passover feast wouldn't have been eaten until Saturday.
Now, if you told me that the Passover lamb somehow became Christ's actual flesh...well, I still wouldn't believe it, but at least I could understand it.

Has anyone ever calculated how many human bodies Christians have consumed in 2000 years? Just a thought....

 

[Knee V]

Has anyone ever calculated how many human bodies Christians have consumed in 2000 years? Just a thought....

One.

Just as a few fish and loaves of bread fed thousands, the body of one single God-man suffices for all of us for eternity.

 

[TheBarrd]

One.

Just as a few fish and loaves of bread fed thousands, the body of one single God-man suffices for all of us for eternity.

You do know that the loaves and fishes multiplied, right? They had more left over than they had started with.
In order for Christ to feed every single person who takes the Eucharist with His own flesh and blood, He, like the loaves and fishes, would have to multiply.

All I can say is
EEEWWWWWWWW.....

 

[Rhamiel]

One.

Just as a few fish and loaves of bread fed thousands, the body of one single God-man suffices for all of us for eternity.

this multiplication of the loaves and fishes shows that Jesus can extend food past what is normal

and the transformation of water into wine shows that Jesus can transform one substance into another substance

also, the Gospels are relatively short
I mean, all four gospels combined could be read in a day
not exactly Atlas Shrugged or Les Miserebles
and yet the message that Jesus is the bread come down from Heaven, that His body is true food, that we are commanded to take and eat it
well it seems to take up a relatively large portion of such a small text

 

[TheBarrd]

I thought most of the gospel was taken up with Jesus' teaching...
You know..."Love One Another".
Isn't that the most important thing in the gospel?

 

[TheBarrd]

You know, I'm willing to bet that when Jesus made the bread and fishes multiply, the people tasted bread and fishes.
And when people drank the wine he had made from water, it tasted like a delicate and delicious wine.
Don't you suppose that, if they held the food or the wine in their hands, it looked and smelled like fish, or bread, or wine?

Now, I have attended a great many Eucharists in my 65 years, in a very many different sorts of churches...including Roman Catholic. I have never once either experienced the bread and wine looking or tasting like flesh and blood, nor have I noticed such a change watching the people around me.
Why do you suppose that is?