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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

This is a PRESIDENT....!??

USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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EDIT - It's quite laughable that anyone would think this "survey" is actually going to go to Trump. It's clearly an e-mail mining operation by the Republican party to try build a list of new potential donors.

Then call him out to his face or write him a letter. It does no good to complain about someone behind their backs like a group of teenage girls at a homecoming dance. Shiloh Raven actually had the right idea to voice his concerns on the president's survey. Here is a link to a survey.

https://gop.com/rate-trump-job-performance/

No go out and make your voice heard in a way that matters. (Insert encouraging smiley emoji that I cannot find at the moment)

Oh my word...

How would you rate President Trump's job performance so far?
  • Great
  • Good
  • Okay
  • Other
 
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Allandavid

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Then call him out to his face or write him a letter. It does no good to complain about someone behind their backs like a group of teenage girls at a homecoming dance. Shiloh Raven actually had the right idea to voice his concerns on the president's survey. Here is a link to a survey.

https://gop.com/rate-trump-job-performance/

No go out and make your voice heard in a way that matters. (Insert encouraging smiley emoji that I cannot find at the moment)

Call him out to his face...?

I did. He’s free to log on to this site.

Just as, I guess, Warren was free to access his disgusting tweet...
 
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Kentonio

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Matters more than on CF. :) Although you should probably do it at the ballot box.

Edit: Sorry, I just realized you are from France. I guess you will have to just settle for the survey. It will still be more useful than CF. However, I don't think the GOP will be any more concerned about the opinions of the French as they do for the Australians. You should probably be more concerned about the whole "yellow vest" issue and the Islamic terrorist problem you have than the tweets of a president who isn't even yours.

Actually no I'm not from France, I just live here. I'm actually British. It's interesting however that not only are Trump's fans the ones who can be relied upon to point out the nationality of anyone else criticizing the US, but also to point to whatever headline items they may have heard about a country, without any kind of understanding or actual knowledge of those things. Especially interesting that you mention the Islamic terrorist problem that apparently 'we' have, considering the US is the primary cause of that terrorism problem thanks to its clumsy blundering in the Middle East, yet closer western countries face the consequences of your actions for you.

As for our interet in US affairs, your ridiculous president unfortunately holds power far beyond the borders of your divided country. It has been revealed that he has repeatedly talked internally about pulling the US out of NATO (in the face of opposition from basically your entire military command and congress). This oversized man-child could actually set in motion events that could lead to my continent being engulfed in war, so yes you better believe we're watching. Mostly with disbelief at the gullibility of those who hang on the every word of a proven frauster, compulsive liar and bigot.
 
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Shiloh Raven

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I don't think what President Trump did was appropriate. I just pointed out the obvious truth that Trump was insulting Warren for her false claim. Not Native American people because she obviously not Native American. I personally would think that Elizabeth Warren is more insulting to Native Americans than President Trump's "bashing" her for insulting Native Americans with her lying about her Native American heritage.

As I pointed out to you ealier in this post, Native Americans feel differently concerning what Trump said about Elizabeth Warren. And as I asked you earlier in my previous post... Are you or any other conserative Trump supporter in the moral position to decide if Trump is mocking Native Americans or not? Do you know that he first used this slur at an official White House ceremony to honor the Navajo Code Talkers? Do you not understand why that is insulting? Do you even know the real story of Pocahontas and why Native Americans are upset at the misuse of her name like that?

NCAI Condemns President Trump’s Derogatory Use of Pocahontas

Native American Groups denounce Trump's 'Pocahontas' Comment

Trump's 'Pocahontas' insult makes a mockery of Native Americans' diverse history

Is Pocahontas A Racial Slur? Native Americans Say They're Insulted by Trump's Remarks

The dark history of Pocahontas, whose name Trump has evoked to slam Elizabeth Warren

Is 'Pocahontas' a racial slur? Eric Trump defends his dad, but Native Americans say otherwise

Navajo Nation delegate slams Trump over 'Pocahontas' slur and says Native Americans are 'not pawns to promote false narratives'

And again... concerning Trump's snide comment referring to Wounded Knee.

Trump invokes one of the worst Native American massacres to mock Elizabeth Warren

Also read this article excerpt I also posted in another earlier post here.

Trump’s Use of Wounded Knee to Mock Elizabeth Warren Angers Native Americans

It’s been more than a century since the Wounded Knee massacre and the Battle of Little Bighorn, but both of these notorious conflicts were thrust into a national conversation about Native Americans and race following President Trump’s Sunday night tweet directed at Senator Elizabeth Warren.

Mr. Trump, responding to a Q. and A. that Ms. Warren posted on Instagram Live a couple of weeks ago, used a line referring to Wounded Knee and Bighorn that mocked Ms. Warren’s claims of Native American heritage.

In Ms. Warren’s video, posted on Dec. 31, the same day she entered the 2020 race for president, she drank a beer in her kitchen and complimented her husband, who made a brief cameo.

pic.twitter.com/D5KWr8EPan

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) January 14, 2019

He faced swift criticism from Native Americans.

“+300 of my people were massacred at Wounded Knee,” the writer and tribal lawyer Ruth H. Hopkins, who is Sioux, said on Twitter. “Most were women and children. This isn’t funny, it’s cold, callous, and just plain racist.”

Ms. Hopkins said in an interview on Monday that the trauma of the massacre hasn’t been erased by time.

“It happened in 1890; it’s not so far removed. Those killed are peoples’ grandparents and great-grandparents,” she said. “It’s further compounded by the fact that the soldiers who murdered Lakota at Wounded Knee received medals of honor for it and those medals have never been rescinded.”

Storm Reyes, 69, who is Coast Salish and lives on a reservation in Washington State, said on Monday that Wounded Knee and other such massacres are deeply ingrained in the memories of Native Americans.

“As a Native, Trump’s tweet was equivalent to making a ‘joke’ about 9/11, Pearl Harbor or the Holocaust,” she said. “I found it awful that not only did Trump use this tragedy as a joke, weapon and insult, but that his ignorance of American history is so great that he didn’t even know that Wounded Knee was a massacre and not a battle.”

In a statement, Jefferson Keel, the president of the National Congress of American Indians, condemned, “in the strongest possible terms, the casual and callous use of these events as part of a political attack.”

“Hundreds of Lakota, Cheyenne, and Arapaho people lost their lives at the hands of the invading U.S. Army during these events,’’ he said, “and their memories should not be desecrated as a rhetorical punch line.”

For those who could use a history refresher, some context:

READ THE HISTORY DOCUMENTED IN THIS ARTICLE. READ THE REST OF THE ARTICLE.
 
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Shiloh Raven

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I don't think what President Trump did was appropriate. I just pointed out the obvious truth that Trump was insulting Warren for her false claim. Not Native American people because she obviously not Native American. I personally would think that Elizabeth Warren is more insulting to Native Americans than President Trump's "bashing" her for insulting Native Americans with her lying about her Native American heritage.

I have something more to say about your post here. Trump insulted Elizabeth Warren DURING an official White House ceremony honoring the Navajo Code Talkers. There is no greater dishonor and disgrace among Native Americans than to insult our warriors, as well as our elders and our ancestors.

Trump did NOT have to use the name of Pocahontas to insult and deride Elizabeth Warren. He was publicly criticized for it and yet he defended himself and he used the racial slant again. He used her name inappropriately as a racial slant to insult her and it IS insulting. She is not more insulting to Native Americans than Trump's racial political potshot against her, as I thoroughly demonstrated in the links I provided in my previous posts. And for the record, she did NOT lie about her Cherokee heritage. She was repeating her family stories and she took a DNA test to verify her families' claims.

There are many Caucasian Americans who claim Native American ancestry based upon their own families' stories. So, what she did is not all that unusual. Tribal blood quantum status is not easy to prove unless a person has a Native American ancestor(s) documented on the Dawes Final Rolls.
 
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USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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As I pointed out to you ealier in this post, Native Americans feel differently concerning what Trump said about Elizabeth Warren. And as I asked you earlier in my previous post... Are you or any other conserative Trump supporter in the moral position to decide if Trump is mocking Native Americans or not? Do you know that he first used this slur at an official White House ceremony to honor the Navajo Code Talkers? Do you not understand why that is insulting? Do you even know the real story of Pocahontas and why Native Americans are upset at the misuse of her name like that?

NCAI Condemns President Trump’s Derogatory Use of Pocahontas

Native American Groups denounce Trump's 'Pocahontas' Comment

Trump's 'Pocahontas' insult makes a mockery of Native Americans' diverse history

Is Pocahontas A Racial Slur? Native Americans Say They're Insulted by Trump's Remarks

The dark history of Pocahontas, whose name Trump has evoked to slam Elizabeth Warren

Is 'Pocahontas' a racial slur? Eric Trump defends his dad, but Native Americans say otherwise

Navajo Nation delegate slams Trump over 'Pocahontas' slur and says Native Americans are 'not pawns to promote false narratives'

And again... concerning Trump's snide comment referring to Wounded Knee.

Trump invokes one of the worst Native American massacres to mock Elizabeth Warren

Also read this article excerpt I also posted in another earlier post here.

Trump’s Use of Wounded Knee to Mock Elizabeth Warren Angers Native Americans

It’s been more than a century since the Wounded Knee massacre and the Battle of Little Bighorn, but both of these notorious conflicts were thrust into a national conversation about Native Americans and race following President Trump’s Sunday night tweet directed at Senator Elizabeth Warren.

Mr. Trump, responding to a Q. and A. that Ms. Warren posted on Instagram Live a couple of weeks ago, used a line referring to Wounded Knee and Bighorn that mocked Ms. Warren’s claims of Native American heritage.

In Ms. Warren’s video, posted on Dec. 31, the same day she entered the 2020 race for president, she drank a beer in her kitchen and complimented her husband, who made a brief cameo.

pic.twitter.com/D5KWr8EPan

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) January 14, 2019

He faced swift criticism from Native Americans.

“+300 of my people were massacred at Wounded Knee,” the writer and tribal lawyer Ruth H. Hopkins, who is Sioux, said on Twitter. “Most were women and children. This isn’t funny, it’s cold, callous, and just plain racist.”

Ms. Hopkins said in an interview on Monday that the trauma of the massacre hasn’t been erased by time.

“It happened in 1890; it’s not so far removed. Those killed are peoples’ grandparents and great-grandparents,” she said. “It’s further compounded by the fact that the soldiers who murdered Lakota at Wounded Knee received medals of honor for it and those medals have never been rescinded.”

Storm Reyes, 69, who is Coast Salish and lives on a reservation in Washington State, said on Monday that Wounded Knee and other such massacres are deeply ingrained in the memories of Native Americans.

“As a Native, Trump’s tweet was equivalent to making a ‘joke’ about 9/11, Pearl Harbor or the Holocaust,” she said. “I found it awful that not only did Trump use this tragedy as a joke, weapon and insult, but that his ignorance of American history is so great that he didn’t even know that Wounded Knee was a massacre and not a battle.”

In a statement, Jefferson Keel, the president of the National Congress of American Indians, condemned, “in the strongest possible terms, the casual and callous use of these events as part of a political attack.”

“Hundreds of Lakota, Cheyenne, and Arapaho people lost their lives at the hands of the invading U.S. Army during these events,’’ he said, “and their memories should not be desecrated as a rhetorical punch line.”

For those who could use a history refresher, some context:

READ THE HISTORY DOCUMENTED IN THIS ARTICLE. READ THE REST OF THE ARTICLE.

Thank you for that. I was just about to post some of those same links. Trump's uncouth, unpresidential, churlish Tweet is being criticized vociferously by Native Americans, but some folks think it's fine as long as he's making liberal heads explode. Because, you know, that's more important than being presidential.
 
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Fine.

Then, finally, you begin to understand the point of my thread...
So why did you ask if the Trump as president in your op title. Why have the title "What are your thoughts on the OP post? Furthermore, why would you argue with people who provide an answer that you don't agree with? So in reality, the thread topic should be, "Trump is bad so lets complain about it, if you disagree you are wrong and we will tell you why."
 
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Shiloh Raven

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Thank you for that. I was just about to post some of those same links. Trump's uncouth, unpresidential, churlish Tweet is being criticized vociferously by Native Americans, but some folks think it's fine as long as he's making liberal heads explode. Because, you know, that's more important than being presidential.

Well, it's not fine. It's not okay. It's wrong and unethical. It's racially motivated, IMO. Trump did not have to use the name of Pocahontas to insult and deride Elizabeth Warren. He chose to do that even after he was publicly criticized for doing so. He recently used the Wounded Knee Massacre and the Battle of the Little Bighorn to further insult and deride Elizabeth Warren. It's inexcusable behavior.
 
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USincognito

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USincognito

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Well, it's not fine. It's not okay. It's wrong and unethical. It's racially motivated, IMO. Trump did not have to use the name of Pocahontas to insult and deride Elizabeth Warren. He chose to do that even after he was publicly criticized for doing so.

Agreed.

He recently used the Wounded Knee Massacre and the Battle of the Little Bighorn to further insult and deride Elizabeth Warren. It's inexcusable behavior.

Yeah, that's the topic of this thread. :)
 
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(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)

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I have something more to say about your post here. Trump insulted Elizabeth Warren DURING an official White House ceremony honoring the Navajo Code Talkers. There is no greater dishonor and disgrace among Native Americans than to insult our warriors, as well as our elders and our ancestors.
QUOTE]
Trump was not insulting native American warriors. I think that is where the disagreement is. According to her DNA results, Elizabeth Warren has less Native American heritage than the average white American. Statistically, it is very likely that Donald Trump is more Native American than Elizabeth Warren. I am more than 1/8 Cherokee. Yes, my great grandmothers are full blooded Cherokee from both my mother and father. I would think that the Cherokee Nation would be more offended of Elizabeth Warren falsely claiming to be Cherokee.
 
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ItIsFinished!

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Of course not. Some people want an uncouth, unpresidential churl in the office because they think that sort of behavior is "leadership".
Those silly deplorables...
 
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Shiloh Raven

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Agreed.

Yeah, that's the topic of this thread. :)

Using the Wounded Knee Massacre, where more than 200 Lakota Sioux men, women and children were murdered in cold blood, is disgusting. But I'm not surprised his remarks would be defended.
 
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It's racially motivated
This is where I disagree with you. It was not "racially motivated" any more than when someone sarcastically calls someone "Einstein" for doing something stupid.
 
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(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)

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Using the Wounded Knee Massacre, where more than 200 Lakota Sioux men, women and children were murdered in cold blood, is disgusting. But I'm not surprised his remarks would be defended.
Not nearly as disgusting as playing the victim by using the massacres of a people you don't represent. Which is what President Trump was attacking Elizabeth Warren for. Not Native Americans and the actual victims of those massacres.
 
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Shiloh Raven

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Trump was not insulting native American warriors. I think that is where the disagreement is.

How many times do I need to repeat myself here? Trump misused the name of Pocahontas to insult and deride Elizabeth Warren and that is where the insult lies. He did this at an official White House ceremony to honor the Navajo Code Talkers. As I have pointed out in my previous posts in this thread, more than once in fact, Native Americans are offended by his 'Pocahontas' remarks.

Native Americans Outraged Over Trump ‘Pocahontas’ Comments

Native Americans Slam Trump For Racist ‘Wounded Knee’ Dig At Sen. Elizabeth Warren

According to her DNA results, Elizabeth Warren has less Native American heritage than the average white American. Statistically, it is very likely that Donald Trump is more Native American than Elizabeth Warren. I am more than 1/8 Cherokee. Yes, my great grandmothers are full blooded Cherokee from both my mother and father. I would think that the Cherokee Nation would be more offended of Elizabeth Warren falsely claiming to be Cherokee.

As I pointed out more than once in this thread, DNA tests to determine Native American blood quantum status is inconclusive and often times inaccurate. I also quoted the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma's official statement about DNA tests to determine tribal blood quantum status. And the Cherokee Nation is offended by her claim of tribal heritage AND other Native Americans are offended by Donald Trump's 'Pocahontas' racial slant remarks against Elizabeth Warren.

Trump's casual racism toward Native Americans

Trump's disrespect for Native Americans is nothing new

Trump insulted Native American war veterans in front of the worst possible Presidential portrait
 
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Shiloh Raven

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Not nearly as disgusting as playing the victim by using the massacres of a people you don't represent. Which is what President Trump was attacking Elizabeth Warren for. Not Native Americans and the actual victims of those massacres.

Elizabeth Warren is not playing the victim. She was not the person who used the Wounded Knee Massacre to insult and deride a political opponent. That was Donald Trump.
 
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Shiloh Raven

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This is where I disagree with you. It was not "racially motivated" any more than when someone sarcastically calls someone "Einstein" for doing something stupid.

Was Albert Einstein kidnapped and sexually assaulted when he was a young child? Was he 21 years old when he died? Does he have the same tragic history as Matoaka (Pocahontas) had?

It's time to learn the true history of Pocahontas and not the fables surrounding her life.

The True Story of Pocahontas: Historical Myths Versus Sad Reality
 
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(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)

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How many times do I need to repeat myself here? Trump misused the name of Pocahontas to insult and deride Elizabeth Warren and that is where the insult lies.
It is no more insulting than when someone sarcastically calls someone "Einstein" when they do something stupid. You keep referencing these articles that make claims of racism when in reality Trump is doing nothing of the sort. He never attacked Native Americans, nor did he ever insult Native American War Veterans. He is attacking Elizabeth Warren and she isn't Native American. Now, I am not saying what Trump said was appropriate. It was poor judgement on his part. But to call it anything other than insulting to Elizabeth Warren is being overly sensitive and attacking a media created straw man.
 
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