This House Lies Desolate

[Christsfreeservant]

Wednesday, April 5, 2017, 11:23 p.m. – Throughout the day, I was aware that there were bad storms and tornadoes happening in various parts of the eastern USA, in particular in the southern states, and that more bad weather was coming yet tonight. I went to bed around 9:00 p.m., but I was awakened at around 10:30 p.m. by a storm that was brewing outside. The wind was blowing through the open window, and this is what awakened me. The Lord Jesus then put in mind the song “Seek the Lord.” And, then I also heard in my mind the name “Zerubbabel.” I had just finished reading the book of Isaiah earlier in the day, so I suspected the Lord was leading me to now read about Zerubbabel, which then led me to the book of Haggai. Speak, Lord, your words to my heart. So, I read Haggai 1 (NASB).

Rebuild the House (vv. 1-4)

In the second year of Darius the king, on the first day of the sixth month, the word of the Lord came by the prophet Haggai to Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and to Joshua the son of Jehozadak, the high priest, saying, “Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘This people says, “The time has not come, even the time for the house of the Lord to be rebuilt.”’” Then the word of the Lord came by Haggai the prophet, saying, “Is it time for you yourselves to dwell in your paneled houses while this house lies desolate?” ​

Since Jesus Christ, the Son of God (and God), died on a cross for our sins, rose from the dead, ascended back to heaven, and then sent his Holy Spirit to indwell the lives of his followers, the House of the Lord has been, and always will be those who have trusted in Jesus Christ to be Lord and Savior of their lives, until Jesus returns. Collectively we are called “the church.” Yet, this is not to be confused with a physical building called “a church,” nor with institutions of human origin, nor with corporations under the federal government. In other words, now rebuilding God’s house, which lies in ruins, has NOTHING to do with restoring a physical building, or property, or any kind of physical structure or organization instituted of men (and women).

So, if the House of the Lord lies in ruins today and it needs to be rebuilt, what does this look like? Well, we are that house, so it has to do with our individual lives, and collectively we comprise the church, the body of Christ, so it also has to do with the church, as Christ’s body. So, what would it mean that we lie in ruins? Ruins are wrecks, devastations, decays and collapses. They are declines, deteriorations and a weakening. It means our lives are far from what they are supposed to be. It means we are not living what we say we believe, but we have fallen away from God’s design for our lives in saving us out of slavery to sin, and we have, instead, engaged ourselves in what is sinful, adulterous, idolatrous and in spiritual adultery.

Although it is certainly bad enough that God’s house lies in ruins, what makes matters even worse is that the people of God, his saints, are largely complacent about that fact. They are too busy building their own kingdoms and their own houses than they care about rebuilding (reviving) their own hearts and the hearts of others who have fallen away from pure devotion to Jesus Christ. Even though a vast majority of the church, the body of Christ, has gone the way of the world, and is following after the idols of men, instead of following their Lord in obedience, it appears that most people who call themselves Christians are not moved or grieved by this at all.

Consider Your Ways (vv. 5-9)

Now therefore, thus says the Lord of hosts, “Consider your ways! You have sown much, but harvest little; you eat, but there is not enough to be satisfied; you drink, but there is not enough to become drunk; you put on clothing, but no one is warm enough; and he who earns, earns wages to put into a purse with holes.” Thus says the Lord of hosts, “Consider your ways! Go up to the mountains, bring wood and rebuild the temple, that I may be pleased with it and be glorified,” says the Lord. “You look for much, but behold, it comes to little; when you bring it home, I blow it away. Why?” declares the Lord of hosts, “Because of My house which lies desolate, while each of you runs to his own house.”​

So, the Lord is calling out to his church, and he is saying, “Consider your ways.” What he is asking of his church is that we prayerfully and thoughtfully examine our lives (our hearts, actions, etc.) before Almighty God and in light of the teachings of scripture, and see if there be any wicked way in us. If there is, then we need to turn from the sin, allow the Spirit of God to revive our hearts, and turn to follow our Lord in faithful obedience, and in surrender to HIS will for our lives, from this moment forward.

As part of this heart examination, we must consider what we know of what scripture teaches and then evaluate our own lives by that standard (measurement). Most of us probably know already if we are living up to what we know God’s Word teaches regarding how we should live, but sometimes people suppress the truth through regularly ignoring the Spirit’s voice, and soon they become desensitized to all the evil which they are taking into their minds and hearts on a daily basis. So, a good measure would be Philippians 4:8 where we are told to think on what is true, pure, honorable, just, right, praiseworthy, etc. We should ask ourselves if what we are doing, watching, thinking, speaking, etc. is true, pure, right, etc. If it is not, then we need to cut it out of our lives, and we need to replace those things with what is pure, honorable, righteous, godly and holy.

In this way, we are rebuilding the ruins, because we are removing the decay and what is rotten and we are throwing out those things in the trash, where they belong, and we are building now into our lives what is pleasing to God, and what is fruitful for his kingdom, and what has eternal value rather than us working toward only what is going to pass away, such as houses that can be quickly blown away by a severe storm or a tornado. We can spend our lives working for and building what is only going to rot and decay or disappear, or we can spend our lives working for what is eternal, and for what makes a difference in our own lives and in the lives of other humans.

Reverence for God (vv. 12-15)

Then Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, and Joshua the son of Jehozadak, the high priest, with all the remnant of the people, obeyed the voice of the Lord their God and the words of Haggai the prophet, as the Lord their God had sent him. And the people showed reverence for the Lord. Then Haggai, the messenger of the Lord, spoke by the commission of the Lord to the people saying, “‘I am with you,’ declares the Lord.” So the Lord stirred up the spirit of Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and the spirit of Joshua the son of Jehozadak, the high priest, and the spirit of all the remnant of the people; and they came and worked on the house of the Lord of hosts, their God, on the twenty-fourth day of the sixth month in the second year of Darius the king.​

If we do not obey the Lord, and if we, as his church, continue to go our own way, and to do our own thing, and to focus our hearts, passions, time and affections on what is only going to die off and disappear, while we ignore the spiritual condition of our own hearts, God will discipline (correct, judge, rebuke) us (See: vv. 10-11 omitted). I believe he is already doing that in many different ways, and that it is only going to get much more severe as we near his return. And, I believe this is because our God wants us to return to him as our ONLY Lord so that he can revive our hearts and restore us to a correct relationship with him, according to his design for our lives.

Then, when the church, which has strayed from him, has humbled herself before her God, and confessed her sins, and turned from them to follow her Lord, and to walk in his ways, he will restore and renew her. He will be with her in the work of rebuilding (transforming and restructuring) the lives of individual believers in Christ, and also the life of the church, as a whole. Our God will move in the hearts of his people in this rebuilding process, and he will show the way in which this needs to take place. And, he will empower and strengthen his people to do all that is necessary to forsake sin, idols and worldly ways, and to now walk in his holiness and in his righteousness.

Seek the Lord / An Original Work / July 20, 2012

Based off Isaiah 55

“Come to Me all you who thirst; come to waters.
Listen to Me, and eat what’s good today,
And your soul will delight in richest of fare.
Give ear to Me, and you will live.
I have made an eternal covenant with you.
Wash in the blood of the Lamb.”

Seek the Lord while He may be found; call on Him.
Let the wicked forsake his way, in truth.
Let him turn to the Lord, and he will receive mercy.
Freely, God pardons him.
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,”
declares the Lord, our God.

“My word that goes out of My mouth is truthful.
It will not return to Me unfulfilled.
My word will accomplish all that I desire,
And achieve the goal I intend.
You will go in joy, and be led forth in peace.
The mountains will burst into song… before you,
And all of the trees clap their hands.”

 

[Another Lazarus]

to forsake sin, idols and worldly ways, and to now walk in his holiness and in his righteousness.

All christians are only hypocrites and big mouth unless they do this :

Matt 5:44 but I -- I say to you, Love your enemies, bless those cursing you, do good to those hating you, and pray for those accusing you falsely, and persecuting you,

The Jewish teachers understood only those who were of their own country, nation, and religion, whom they were pleased to look upon as their friends. Others salute their brethren, and embrace those of their own party, and way, and opinion,
but we must study to conform ourselves to the example of our heavenly Father,

46. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?


may Jesus bless you all HalleluYah

 

[Hidden In Him]

You have been led to take the approach of applying these passages to the individual. Let me amplify on your teachings by applying them prophetically to the church of the Lord Jesus Christ as a whole:

In the second year of Darius the king, on the first day of the sixth month, the word of the Lord came by the prophet Haggai to Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and to Joshua the son of Jehozadak, the high priest, saying, “Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘This people says, “The time has not come, even the time for the house of the Lord to be rebuilt.”’” Then the word of the Lord came by Haggai the prophet, saying, “Is it time for you yourselves to dwell in your paneled houses while this house lies desolate?”

I have become increasingly convinced that nearly everything in the Old Testament, at least all the major events in Israel's history, were prophetic foreshadowings of what would happen in the end-times, when the harvest takes place "at the end of the age."

You are correct. The house is broken down while most believers, meanwhile, are building their own houses instead. Runs a strong parallel with Revelation 3:14-22

Now therefore, thus says the Lord of hosts, “Consider your ways! You have sown much, but harvest little; you eat, but there is not enough to be satisfied; you drink, but there is not enough to become drunk; you put on clothing, but no one is warm enough; and he who earns, earns wages to put into a purse with holes.” Thus says the Lord of hosts, “Consider your ways! Go up to the mountains, bring wood and rebuild the temple, that I may be pleased with it and be glorified,” says the Lord. “You look for much, but behold, it comes to little; when you bring it home, I blow it away. Why?” declares the Lord of hosts, “Because of My house which lies desolate, while each of you runs to his own house.”

The parallels here are all spiritual. We sow "preaching" and "teaching," yet it "comes to little" because it has no power in it. We "eat" what passes for the spiritual food these days, yet we are never satisfied no matter how much we eat of it because it lacks true life-giving properties. We "drink" (this is a strong one), yet there is never enough to "get drunk" on, a reference to how we occasionally experience the outpouring of the Holy Spirit in our churches now, but no where near like the outpourings of Pentecost. Likewise, we "put on clothing," i.e. cloth ourselves in the Holy Spirit (Revelation 3:18), yet never enough to be "warm," i.e. or truly on fire for God. "He who earns, earns wages to put into a purse with holes" is probably a reference to those "working" towards spiritual advancement in the modern church, only to find that they are never really advancing spiritually at all. "Go to the mountains" speaks of going to God for the true materials needed to build His house: The revelations of God and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, as alluded to in the spiritual "food" and "drink" mentioned in the passage. "You look for much, yet it comes to little. When you bring it home, I blow it away. Why?” declares the Lord of hosts, “Because of My house which lies desolate, while each of you runs to his own house.” In other words, because they will not focus their lives on building His house, the "blessings" they attempt to bring to their own houses often end up coming to nothing as a judgment against them from God.

Continued in Post #5.

 

[Alovera]

I read the opening post, and I listened to the accompanying video.

Thank you for your words of reproof.

I am sort of in the process of personal revival. By this I mean that I am trying to read the scriptures regularly (following a plan for now), but especially trying to pray more and to take it seriously.

I've fallen away many times, but have found myself on steady ground for the last 5 months or so.

I certainly have seen many of the ruins you have spoken of both in my own life and in the lives of others. Just wanted to say thank you for putting this out here. It's late now and I have to sleep, but I've bookmarked the page. I might come back to reread it and consider it some more.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Then Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, and Joshua the son of Jehozadak, the high priest, with all the remnant of the people, obeyed the voice of the Lord their God and the words of Haggai the prophet, as the Lord their God had sent him. And the people showed reverence for the Lord. Then Haggai, the messenger of the Lord, spoke by the commission of the Lord to the people saying, “‘I am with you,’ declares the Lord.” So the Lord stirred up the spirit of Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and the spirit of Joshua the son of Jehozadak, the high priest, and the spirit of all the remnant of the people; and they came and worked on the house of the Lord of hosts, their God, on the twenty-fourth day of the sixth month in the second year of Darius the king.

This is very powerful. It predicts that the Lord will raise up either two men/believers in particular or two classes of ministry (more likely) who will lead the servants of God to begin rebuilding the true temple.

From wikipedia:
Zerubbabel (Hebrew: זְרֻבָּבֶל, Modern Zrubavel, Tiberian Zərubbāḇél; Ancient Greek: Ζοροβαβέλ, Zorobabel; Latin: Zorobabel) was a governor of the Persian Province of Yehud Medinata (Haggai 1:1) and the grandson of Jehoiachin, penultimate king of Judah. Zerubbabel led the first group of Jews, numbering 42,360, who returned from the Babylonian Captivity in the first year of Cyrus, King of Persia (Ezra). The date is generally thought to have been between 538 and 520 BC.[1] Zerubbabel also laid the foundation of the Second Temple in Jerusalem soon after. In all of the accounts in the Hebrew Bible that mention Zerubbabel, he is always associated with the high priest who returned with him, Joshua (Jeshua) son of Jozadak (Jehozadak). Together, these two men led the first wave of Jewish returnees from exile and began to rebuild the Temple (Ezra).

Immensely important to what is about to happen in the life of the church. This first group will number 42,360. Not the multitude of a nation, mind you, but a vast number of true servants of God predestined by Him in advance to begin the work of laying the foundation for God's true end-time church. This is directly ahead of us, and it is great news. It means the time for the building is about to begin.

So the Lord stirred up the spirit of Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and the spirit of Joshua the son of Jehozadak, the high priest, and the spirit of all the remnant of the people; and they came and worked on the house of the Lord of hosts, their God, on the twenty-fourth day of the sixth month in the second year of Darius the king.

Those who are soon to begin building the true temple will be "stirred up" by the Spirit of God. Speaks of becoming compelled by the Spirit to begin the great work, though they are starting in ruins. First the foundation will have to be laid, which speaks primarily of doctrinal foundation, and restoring accurate interpretation and understanding of God's word as it was first delivered to the church through the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The question: Who is Zerubbabel, and who is Joshua? It is possible they represent two classes of ministry, but I cannot answer that with any absolute certainty just yet.

 

[Christsfreeservant]

All christians are only hypocrites and big mouth unless they do this :

Matt 5:44 but I -- I say to you, Love your enemies, bless those cursing you, do good to those hating you, and pray for those accusing you falsely, and persecuting you,

The Jewish teachers understood only those who were of their own country, nation, and religion, whom they were pleased to look upon as their friends. Others salute their brethren, and embrace those of their own party, and way, and opinion,
but we must study to conform ourselves to the example of our heavenly Father,

46. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?


may Jesus bless you all HalleluYah

I don't know anywhere in scripture where it says or implies exactly what you just said here. I do know, though, that it says that if we practice (continue in, walk in) sinning, as a matter of lifestyle (our normal course of life), that we are not in relationship with God/Jesus, we don't love God, and there is no sacrifice for sin applied to our lives, plus we don't have the promise of heaven when we leave this earth. It also says that if we say we love God, but we hate our brother, we are liars, for we can't love God whom we have not seen if we hate those whom we have seen, or something to that effect. If we practice hate, it says we are still in darkness. And, it says, too, that love for God is to obey his commandments. This is not to say that we must be perfect in our obedience, otherwise Christ would not have had to die for our sins, if that could be accomplished, but it is saying that, not only should we NOT practice (willfully continuing to sin), but we should practice (in lifestyle) obedience to Christ and his Word. That is love for God.

 

[Christsfreeservant]

You have been led to take the approach of applying these passages to the individual. Let me amplify on your teachings by applying them prophetically to the church of the Lord Jesus Christ as a whole

I did apply them both to the individual believer in Jesus Christ and to the church.

In other words, because they will not focus their lives on building His house, the "blessings" they attempt to bring to their own houses often end up coming to nothing as a judgment against them from God.

I spoke much on what it truly means to "rebuild His house." What do you believe it means to "build His house"?

This is very powerful. It predicts that the Lord will raise up either two men/believers in particular or two classes of ministry (more likely) who will lead the servants of God to begin rebuilding the true temple.

Explain what you mean by "rebuilding the true temple," including both your thoughts on what it means to "rebuild" and also what you believe is "the true temple."

 

[Hidden In Him]

I spoke much on what it truly means to "rebuild His house." What do you believe it means to "build His house"?... Explain what you mean by "rebuilding the true temple," including both your thoughts on what it means to "rebuild" and also what you believe is "the true temple."

It sums up like this:

1. The body of Christ was originally the true temple of God on earth, as evidence by the Holy Spirit being poured out upon them in great power (Acts 2:1-4; Acts 10:44-48; 1 Corinthians 3:16)
2. His presence, as evidenced by the persistence of the spiritual gifts, needed to be maintained by the church if they were to remain the true temple of God in reality (Jude 1:20-21).
3. The church, however, in the first few centuries after Christ slowly allowed the Holy Spirit to lift, mostly because they abandoned corporate prayer and fasting (I could find you quotes if you like).
4. This has led us to today, where the temple now lies in ruins, and the Lord Jesus Christ is now outside the church trying to get back in (Revelation 3:14-22, verse 20 in particular).
5. We must return to seeking God through incessant corporate prayer and fasting for a full return of the outpouring of the Spirit and His gifts, so that the true temple might be built once again (Haggai 1:7-8).

"Rebuild" = Again receive the full outpouring of the Holy Spirit, even more so than on the day of Pentecost, with individual churches operating in the full range of spiritual gifts, and in even greater power than during New Testament times (John 14:12; Mark 16:17-18).

 

[Alovera]

It sums up like this:

1. The body of Christ was originally the true temple of God on earth, as evidence by the Holy Spirit being poured out upon them in great power (Acts 2:1-4; Acts 10:44-48; 1 Corinthians 3:16)
2. His presence, as evidenced by the persistence of the spiritual gifts, needed to be maintained by the church if they were to remain the true temple of God in reality (Jude 1:20-21).
3. The church, however, in the first few centuries after Christ slowly allowed the Holy Spirit to lift, mostly because they abandoned corporate prayer and fasting (I could find you quotes if you like).
4. This has led us to today, where the temple now lies in ruins, and the Lord Jesus Christ is now outside the church trying to get back in (Revelation 3:14-22, verse 20 in particular).
5. We must return to seeking God through incessant corporate prayer and fasting for a full return of the outpouring of the Spirit and His gifts, so that the true temple might be built once again (Haggai 1:7-8).

"Rebuild" = Again receive the full outpouring of the Holy Spirit, even more so than on the day of Pentecost, with individual churches operating in the full range of spiritual gifts, and in even greater power than during New Testament times (John 14:12; Mark 16:17-18).

I want to fast but I'm finding it near impossible. There is also the question of whether I will be able to do my job, which is 5-6 hours of walking every day. Prayers I'm doing decently in at least, but yes, fasting I'm not sure how to succeed in. And I am praying for help with fasting too.

 

[Christsfreeservant]

I want to fast but I'm finding it near impossible. There is also the question of whether I will be able to do my job, which is 5-6 hours of walking every day. Prayers I'm doing decently in at least, but yes, fasting I'm not sure how to succeed in. And I am praying for help with fasting too.

If God is directing you to fast, then he will give you all you need to do so. He will show you what to do and how to do it and for how long to do it, and he will strengthen you and will give you the courage to persevere. We must differentiate between what we want to do for God and what he wants us to do for him. If he is in it, he will empower us to do it. If it is us in our flesh wanting to do it, it probably won't succeed, at least it won't have the spiritual rewards hoped for.

As far as prayer goes, this is not something we do just for a select period of time in the day, though we need to have those times set apart for specific prayer, but prayer is really conversation with God throughout the day, listening to hear his voice speaking to our hearts, responding in obedience, and us sharing our hearts with him, making requests, desiring to know his will, confessing sin and praising and thanking him for all that he has done and continues to do for us on a daily basis.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I want to fast but I'm finding it near impossible. There is also the question of whether I will be able to do my job, which is 5-6 hours of walking every day. Prayers I'm doing decently in at least, but yes, fasting I'm not sure how to succeed in. And I am praying for help with fasting too.

Prayers are #1 in importance, so be encouraged. Fasting simply brings the flesh under to ever increasing levels, making reception and manifestation of the Holy Spirit baptism that much easier with the flesh taken out of the way. But I work, too, and I know how it is. What you are after is not "how many days can I fast," or "how many pounds do I have to lose," that sort of thing. It is about simply bringing the body under subjugation to your spirit, which means essentially managing energy. A little weakness in the flesh is good, and it becomes easier to maintain once you get used to it. Too much weakness and you become too debilitated to fulfill your responsibilities.

Plus, fasting starts with first acclimating yourself to it, like a fish in a new bowl (for lack of a better analogy). You have to work your way into it slowly. Start by praying for the Spirit's empowerment for starters, and spend several days just focusing on that. Then you will eventually find the strength to start eating lighter foods like salads and soups, vegetables and fruit. Then you will feel your stomach start to shrink. Once this happens you're on your way. Then it just becomes a matter of managing energy, together with having to face some setbacks, and learning to get back on the horse as quickly as possible.

Sounds like your heart is in a good place towards God, and He will reward you if you keep seeking Him diligently for your heart's desires in Him.

And by the way, another friend here named Stealth Saint turned me on to what has been going on recently; a movement to return to seeking the Holy Spirit baptism immediately after water baptism, which was the original NT pattern.

You might find it interesting. I haven't had a chance to look at it yet, but it looks very promising!

The Last Reformation

 

[Alovera]

As far as prayer goes, this is not something we do just for a select period of time in the day, though we need to have those times set apart for specific prayer, but prayer is really conversation with God throughout the day, listening to hear his voice speaking to our hearts, responding in obedience, and us sharing our hearts with him, making requests, desiring to know his will, confessing sin and praising and thanking him for all that he has done and continues to do for us on a daily basis.

That is also tricky. I find it hard to pray while working. My job requires some attention while I'm doing it. During work I just try to keep my mind free from negative or sinful thoughts. When I get home I have prayer time.

Thank you for your perspective on these things. People don't talk about the practical aspect of things too much.

 

[Alovera]

Prayers are #1 in importance, so be encouraged. Fasting simply brings the flesh under to ever increasing levels, making reception and manifestation of the Holy Spirit baptism that much easier with the flesh taken out of the way. But I work, too, and I know how it is. What you are after is not "how many days can I fast," or "how many pounds do I have to lose," that sort of thing. It is about simply bringing the body under subjugation to your spirit, which means essentially managing energy. A little weakness in the flesh is good, and it becomes easier to maintain once you get used to it. Too much weakness and you become too debilitated to fulfill your responsibilities.

Plus, fasting starts with first acclimating yourself to it, like a fish in a new bowl (for lack of a better analogy). You have to work your way into it slowly. Start by praying for the Spirit's empowerment for starters, and spend several days just focusing on that. Then you will eventually find the strength to start eating lighter foods like salads and soups, vegetables and fruit. Then you will feel your stomach start to shrink. Once this happens you're on your way. Then it just becomes a matter of managing energy, together with having to face some setbacks, and learning to get back on the horse as quickly as possible.

Sounds like your heart is in a good place towards God, and He will reward you if you keep seeking Him diligently for your heart's desires in Him.

And by the way, another friend here named Stealth Saint turned me on to what has been going on recently; a movement to return to seeking the Holy Spirit baptism immediately after water baptism, which was the original NT pattern.

You might find it interesting. I haven't had a chance to look at it yet, but it looks very promising!

The Last Reformation

Thank you very much for the practical advice. I'm very interested to try it, God willing.

 

[Alovera]

And by the way, another friend here named Stealth Saint turned me on to what has been going on recently; a movement to return to seeking the Holy Spirit baptism immediately after water baptism, which was the original NT pattern.

You might find it interesting. I haven't had a chance to look at it yet, but it looks very promising!

The Last Reformation

Oh and that link you sent. I watched the trailer.

It is very exciting to watch that. I'll tell you this: I am willing to carefully and slowly try to move towards the holy spirit working through me, but I don't see the need to leave my Church.

My last minister, even though he was Anglican, was open to some of this: like speaking in tongues (as long as if its done publicly, someone translates. Otherwise it should be private. This is actually scriptural.) Also most Anglican ministers, if not all of them, believe in miracles. However what I notice is that they don't really do any work trying to make it happen. But as far as I know they aren't agaisnt it.

So I believe I can continue to be in my Church, but also ask God for the spirit, and every day keep trying to draw near to him, so he can draw near to me. (James 4:8)

Thanks for the link though. I do believe it could be genuine.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I am willing to carefully and slowly try to move towards the holy spirit working through me, but I don't see the need to leave my Church.

I am absolutely in agreement with you here. In no way shape or form are we being called to simply abandon those in the more mainline denominational churches. You'll find that a lot of the members here, especially amongst the staff, are Eastern Orthodox, and I have absolutely no problem with that. I agree with many of their positions anyway. But yes, by all means, stay where you are planted unless the Lord leads you elsewhere. This is where you quite possibly can do the most good.

My last minister, even though he was Anglican, was open to some of this: like speaking in tongues (as long as if its done publicly, someone translates. Otherwise it should be private. This is actually scriptural.)

Yes. I've actually found the issue of praying in tongues publicly without an interpreter present to be a little more tricky than I think Paul fully addressed in the passage in question. But as a rule, the principles should definitely apply, i.e. we can't be running amok in spouting tongues when it is serving no true purpose in the Lord and only making us look crazy.

Also most Anglican ministers, if not all of them, believe in miracles. However what I notice is that they don't really do any work trying to make it happen. But as far as I know they aren't against it.

Yes. At least their position is not against it, and that's something to be thankful for. I've noticed posters here, dear brothers and sisters in the Lord, who nevertheless take the position that things such as dreams, visions, prophecies, gifts etc. are no longer genuine now because they are no longer necessary. Once a believer takes this position, there is no way to turn them around from it, except by possibly their receiving divine proof in their own lives.

However what I notice is that they don't really do any work trying to make it happen.

MASSIVE point you make here. This is precisely it, and you couldn't have put it any better. They don't want to do the WORK. I could give you quotes from the early church of how they were operating in miracles and gifts well past the New Testament era, but only because they were still giving themselves to incessant corporate prayer. Those words don't set well in mouths of many believers today, regardless of whether they believe in the gifts or not.

Well, keep praying, and keep me posted. Might be quite some time praying and earnestly seeking God before your manifestation comes, but it will if you refuse to give up.

God Bless!
HiH