This Generation

[HisdaughterJen]

Most believe when Jerusalem became a sovereign state again, that this marked the fulfillment of the parable of the fig tree.

Which says that a generation will not pass away before these things take place.

How long is a generation? Your guess is as good as anybody's.


-

God moves at the end of seventy years.

Here is the length of a generation, Biblically:

Psa 90:10The length of our days is seventy years-- or eighty, if we have the strength; yet their span is but trouble and sorrow, for they quickly pass, and we fly away.

Isa 23:15At that time Tyre will be forgotten for seventy years, the span of a king's life. But at the end of these seventy years, it will happen to Tyre as in the song of the prostitute:

Isa 23:17At the end of seventy years, the Lord will deal with Tyre. She will return to her hire as a prostitute and will ply her trade with all the kingdoms on the face of the earth.





Jer 25:12"But when the seventy years are fulfilled, I will punish the king of Babylon and his nation, the land of the Babylonians, for their guilt," declares the Lord, "and will make it desolate forever.

Jer 29:10This is what the Lord says: "When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will come to you and fulfill my gracious promise to bring you back to this place.


It is no coincidence that 70 years after the birth of Christ, the people/city/temple was left desolate. So, when Jesus was speaking to "this generation" in Matt 23 and Matt 24, he was speaking to the people alive during those first 70 years since his birth.

Would the beginning of 70 years for Israel in this modern day be in 1945 when they started to be "brought back from the sword" or in 1947 when the UN declared a resolution for a nation-state or in 1948 when Israel declared their state-hood?

If it is from 1945, we can expect God to be reigning in 2015
If it is from 1947, we can expect God to be reigning in 2017
If it is from 1948, we can expect God to be reigning in 2018

BUT, whatever leads up to that moment would begin earlier.

 

[kotel]

The generation spoken by Jesus to his disciples was a prophetic message, it must have its fulfillment in the future. The beginning of a prophetic time span must begin when spoken of or begin in the future and not with some historical event such as Christ‘s birth. Prophetic messages or visions never include past events.

After receiving assistance from Harrison and further study on my part I’m satisfied with a 40 year Hebrew generation that began with the Olivet Discourse and ended with Jerusalem’s destruction.

One thing for sure, there had to be a nation of Israel before the things in Mt 24 could be fulfilled since the context is God’s people living in Jerusalem and Judah. The 40 year generation ended with the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans. For the fulfillment of the future generation that is still alive when Christ returns, God’s people must be living in Jerusalem and Judah and Israel must again be a sovereign nation as it was in Christ’s day.

A future generation is needed to witness the completion and final fulfillment of the things in Matthew. Is our generation also 40 years or is it 70 years? Did the future generation begin November 29, 1947 when the UN declared a resolution for a nation-state or May 15, 1948 when Israel declared their state-hood?

Either date could be used to ascertain an approximate ending of our generation, since they are so close together. I prefer 1947 over the widely accepted 1948. Here are the choices:

Nov 1947 + 40 year generation = 1987 (Remember 88 reasons why Jesus returns in 1988?)

June 7, 1967 + 40 years = 2007 (phooey, we missed the boat)

Nov 1947 +70 years = Nov 2017 or 2018 (looking good)
June 7, 1967 + 70 years = 2030 (still possible but 83 years is not supported as a generation in the Bible)



Do we used the Hebrew calendar or the Gregorian calendar?

Hebrew calendar:
70 years x 360 = 25,200 days divided by 365.4 = 68.96 years.

.96 x 365.4 = 350.78 days divided by 30.45 = 11.52 months

.52 x 30.45 = 16 days for a total of 68 years, 11months and 16 days.

1947 + 68 years = Nov 29, 2015 + 16 days = December 15, 2015 approximate date

Gregorian calendar: November 29, 1947 + 70 years = November 29, 2017 approximate date

I’ll place my bet on the Gregorian date.

 

[visionary]

The generation that sees this...

Immediately after the distress of those days
" 'the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken

shall be the generation that sees the Lord's return.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

The generation spoken by Jesus to his disciples was a prophetic message, it must have its fulfillment in the future. The beginning of a prophetic time span must begin when spoken of or begin in the future and not with some historical event such as Christ‘s birth. Prophetic messages or visions never include past events.

IT DID!

The desolation of Israel came 40 years after Jesus spoke those words, at the end of a 70 year generation from His birth.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

The generation that sees this...

Immediately after the distress of those days
" 'the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken

shall be the generation that sees the Lord's return.

Yes, I agree with that but is that what Jesus was referring to in talking to "this generation" in Matt 23 and Matt 24? In Matt 23, he was talking about Israel being left desolate. In Matt 24, he said, "all these things"...but what was he referring to? Was he referring to what led up to the desolation of Israel? I think so!....unless we can expect yet another desolation of Israel which is not Biblical.

Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
Mat 23:37¶O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [her] wings, and ye would not!
Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

This means that the time we are currently in is "the times of the gentiles" or "the tribulation" that followed the desolation of Israel but will be cut short for the sake of the elect OF ISRAEL, the 144,000 who are sealed on earth during the final 42+ months and can't be harmed by the devil.

 

[kotel]

IT DID!

The desolation of Israel came 40 years after Jesus spoke those words, at the end of a 70 year generation from His birth.

You are pre dating a prophecy given to his disciples in 31 AD. Prophecy is never about something in the past, understand?

Jesus was actually born 8 BC, 77 years before 70 AD. The years don't add up.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

You are pre dating a prophecy given to his disciples in 31 AD. Prophecy is never about something in the past, understand?

Jesus was actually born 8 BC, 77 years before 70 AD. The years don't add up.

Yes, and 70AD is AFTER 31 AD, when the prophecy was allegedly given. Regardless of the date, the desolation of Israel was after the prophecy was given. DO you see what I'm saying? The desolation of Israel was a prophecy, given by Jesus, that was fulfilled about 40 years later in 66-70AD.

We don't know when Christ is born, down to the year. I've heard 4 BC. I've heard up to 4 AD...so I don't know where you are getting your numbers but I would stick to God's 70 year generation thing because it has Biblical basis.

Therefore, if the 1290 days that led to the desolation of Israel took place in 66-70AD, then it would be a very safe guess that Jesus' birth was 70 years prior to that, based on the 70 year generation which would put Jesus' birth in 4BC to 0.

There is no scripture that says the abomination of desolation has anything to do with the anti-christ. There is no scripture that says the tribulation has anything to do with the anti-christ. These are two erroneous teachings with no basis in scripture.

Jesus gave us the order of events leading up to the desolation of Israel in Matt 24, including the subsequent tribulation. He told us AFTER that tribulation is cut short, THEN false CHrists/false prophets/false miracles appear. This is what Jesus, himself, said in Matt 24:15-25.
Matt 24:
15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25Behold, I have told you before.

So, when Jesus speaks of "all these things" happening before "this generation" passes:

34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

...he was speaking of the events leading up to the desolation of Israel, just like in Matt 23:
Matt 23:36Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.


The subsequent tribulation, it's abrupt end, FOLLOWED by the false christs/false prophets/false miracles FOLLOWED by the destruction of the ungodly are what is currently present and yet future.

 

[Notrash]

The generation that sees this...

Immediately after the distress of those days
" 'the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken

shall be the generation that sees the Lord's return.

This is from Isaiah 13,

10 For the stars of heaven and their constellations
Will not give their light;
The sun will be darkened in its going forth,
And the moon will not cause its light to shine.

Question, What was this referring to? (Read all of chapter 13 for the answer)
Question 2, Is there any historical record of the sun darkening physically; the moon not physically shining and the constellations and stars not giving their light at the time to which the prophecy in Isaiah was referring to.?

 

[kotel]

HisdaughterGen

Yes, and 70AD is AFTER 31 AD, when the prophecy was allegedly given. Regardless of the date, the desolation of Israel was after the prophecy was given.

A 70 year prophecy cannot begin 30 years before it was given to His disciples in 31 AD, it must have started in 31 or later. This is my last response!

 

[Notrash]

Yes, but don't forget that He had the right to say what He did. He was a member of the Godhead. You and I do not have that right!

I truly have no idea where your going with this or what accusations your making. (and we know what spirit does accusing of the bretheren). I made statements that linguistically speaking 'this generation' as used in Matt 23 and 24 was referring to that specific lifespan generation (genea) of the 40 yrs following the discourse/teaching and the crucifixion. There are different greek words to indicate other meanings for the word nation, and so forth, so we I think are in agreement that Genea means a general group of people living in that lifespan or expereincing certain events. Today we would say the 'hippy generation' or generation x... or the 'me' generation as referring to the people who lived through said experiances.

Jesus previous use of the phrase 'this generation' has been shown to refer to those people living in that day and hearing him speak those words. Houtos is often used in the concept of this same one to which is being addressed or referred to. In the case of Matt 24, it would be the same one referred to in chapter 23 and the same single generation that he was speaking to would see the temple fall would also see all those things and heed the warnings.

So the evidence and linguistic logic supports the concept that Christ was referring only to that very same generation and as we understand via the pattern of the 40 yr establishment of the old covenant; the next 40 yrs (initially). What then would be wrong with acknowledging this present belief to the Holy Spirit and asking HIM for insight and wisdom about understanding the manner of the fulfillments, laying it at his feet in belief; asking him to prove or disprove the belief?

The only 'blaspheme' to which I could be accused of would be against the so called bible teachers and futurist/dispy indoctrinators who seek to seal up the establishment of the kindgom of God's Mercy denying it's full establishment in power; denying HIS, the Creators, full and finished incarnation in the flesh and hinder others from understanding and entering into His Kingdom through their indoctrinations/erroneous teachings. To that accusation I stand guilty. But since they do not sit in the seat of "teacher" i.e. the Holy Spirit, there is no blasheme against God, but only against the so called religious leaders/overseers.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

HisdaughterGen

A 70 year prophecy cannot begin 30 years before it was given to His disciples in 31 AD, it must have started in 31 or later. This is my last response!

OOOOHHHH! You are saying that "this generation", if it were 70 years, could not have begun yet as of the moment that he said it, right?

But therein lies the error. First of all, he was telling them what would happen prophetically in their lifetime, referring to "this generation" and not that it would happen in some future generation. He said it more than once in regards to the same people:

Mat 23:
33"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.
37"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. 38Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord

and here:

Matt 24:

32"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.


Before that generation, the generation that began with the birth of Jesus, passed away, Israel (the people/the temple/Jerusalem) was left desolate. And as Jesus prophecied, THEY (Israel) will not see Him again until THEY (Israel) says, "blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord". Israel will be desolated until they believe in Him again!

I'm sorry that was your last response. God bless you in your travels. Don't be a stranger!

 

[eyzonthepriz]

I'm reposting this sermon for the benefit of those who only read the latter posts on this thread and didn't come across my original post. To you I would say; If you really want to understand "This Generation" spoken of by Jesus, then grab your Bibles and be prepared to gain great understanding. www.LetGodBeTrue.com - Free Audio Sermons

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I'm reposting this sermon for the benefit of those who only read the latter posts on this thread and didn't come across my original post. To you I would say; If you really want to understand "This Generation" spoken of by Jesus, then grab your Bibles and be prepared to gain great understanding. www.LetGodBeTrue.com - Free Audio Sermons

Has anyone grabbed their Bible yet?

Luke 11:29 Of the yet throngs being convened, He begins to be saying "the generation/genea <1074> this, a wicked one is seeking a Sign and a Sign not shall be being given to it except the Sign of Jonah the Prophet".

 

[rdclmn72]

Its commentary on the last days of the Judahite kingdom in Jesus's words.
In 621 BCE, as part of his reforms, Josiah celebrated the last revival and passover, witnessed by a child named Jeremiah who would in turn witness the falling away of the same group of people, leading the righteous to be spared, the others to die, all within the space of a single generation.