Thinking of Moving to Australia

Tahoenite · Jul 7, 2010

One of the things the US's government was founded on was division of power with checks and balances. The original design I believe was ingenious however with time politicians have evolved it into a quagmire of infighting that functions as well as a car with three flat tires. The federal government has just filed a law suit against one of our own states.

The reason for so many law enforcement agency follows the trend to divide power and hopefully keep down corruption and limit scope. I think they have went too far and now have too many police agencies being redundant and possibly working against each other.

I believe all of the government authorized law enforcement carry guns, since most of the criminals are as well armed if not better such as the 1997 Bank robbery in North Hollywood.

Tahoenite · Jul 8, 2010

Montalban said:
We have some of that too, the welfare state.

Could you please explain what the welfare state is over there? Sounds similar to ours.

Tahoenite · Jul 8, 2010

ebia said:
Depending what you mean by that I'm not sure you'll find any country that suits you better than the United States on that one.

I think what she is trying to say is that we have encountered a lot of frustration by the way the government hands out assistance and funds. We have people that make more money on welfare than people working full time in lower skilled trades. If they want more money and are a woman they have more children to get more money, these same people usually seem to live in a higher lifestyle than most of the low middle class. Which in turn are the ones through our creative taxation that proportionately pay the most to support those receiving assistance from the system.

Montalban · Jul 8, 2010

Tahoenite said:
Could you please explain what the welfare state is over there? Sounds similar to ours.

We have unemployment benefits. These don't 'automatically' cut out after, say 30 days. It is possible to be on the dole for more than a year.

We have fairly universal free medical.

ebia · Jul 8, 2010

Tahoenite said:
I think what she is trying to say is that we have encountered a lot of frustration by the way the government hands out assistance and funds. We have people that make more money on welfare than people working full time in lower skilled trades. If they want more money and are a woman they have more children to get more money, these same people usually seem to live in a higher lifestyle than most of the low middle class. Which in turn are the ones through our creative taxation that proportionately pay the most to support those receiving assistance from the system.

If that bothers someone they are likely to find the situation in pretty much any other western democracy at least as frustrating as the US.

Come here because of what's good about Australia, not to get away from whatever frustrates you in the US.

Nooj · Jul 8, 2010

Reps to ebia.

Montalban said:
We have unemployment benefits. These don't 'automatically' cut out after, say 30 days. It is possible to be on the dole for more than a year.

We have fairly universal free medical.

Careful now, I think that's enough for us to be called 'socialists' in the States.

Montalban · Jul 8, 2010

Nooj said:
Reps to ebia.

Careful now, I think that's enough for us to be called 'socialists' in the States.

I support the welfare state, too! Hence ALP icon

I see your OZ Democrats icon, but will say nothing. It's best not to speak ill of the dead

ebia · Jul 8, 2010

So now we have to introduce them to the idea that in Australia the Liberals aren't liberal, the National Party isn't national and Democrats no longer exist? And the Labor party doesn't follow Australian spelling.

Montalban · Jul 8, 2010

ebia said:
So now we have to introduce them to the idea that in Australia the Liberals aren't liberal, the National Party isn't national and Democrats no longer exist? And the Labor party doesn't follow Australian spelling.

We have to explain? I nominate YOU!

Good luck

(me: packs bags and sneaks away)

Tahoenite · Jul 8, 2010

ebia said:
If that bothers someone they are likely to find the situation in pretty much any other western democracy at least as frustrating as the US.

Come here because of what's good about Australia, not to get away from whatever frustrates you in the US.

The welfare system as well as others problems in the US have triggered a desire to leave, we view it as a sinking ship with the people on board pretending problems don't exist.

We have looked at most of the English speaking countries, and a few others in our search for relocating. Australia hands down has topped the list, because we feel it would have the best fit for us and we would be able meld in and become happy healthy productive members of the Country.

Montalban · Jul 8, 2010

Tahoenite said:
The welfare system as well as others problems in the US have triggered a desire to leave, we view it as a sinking ship with the people on board pretending problems don't exist.

We have looked at most of the English speaking countries, and a few others in our search for relocating. Australia hands down has topped the list, because we feel it would have the best fit for us and we would be able meld in and become happy healthy productive members of the Country.

I think the point being made (rather flippantly by me, at least) is that Australia is more 'socially progressive' that the US, in general, when it comes to socialised services - despite many Australians complaining about these services being diminished. We still have welfare, and health that are available.

We have a lot of volunteerism here too. With volunteer Surf Life Savers, Bush Firefighters, Emergency Services works, etc. as well as other community groups.

Despite many changes large portions of Australia are still 'community' orientated rather than 'individualistic'

For instance (and I'm only a distant observer) my impression of Americans is the idea "What my neighbours do in their back-yard is none of my business".

Here, at least in my experience that my neighbours are always 'sticky-beaks' (but also looking out for each other).

These I know are generalisations.

This bit of 'standing by your mate' is what I love about Australia.

These impressions are long-standing.

Several people I know, with experience of US-servicemen from WWII were of the opinion that these guys were always 'hustling' and out to make a buck. This in no way makes me view US effort (resourcefulness, bravery, etc.) any less than what it was.

Tahoenite · Jul 8, 2010

For clarification, it is not the social services that are the issue in the US. It is the way that they are abused. We have people that go out of their way to get disability (where the government pays them because they are deemed unable to work, and this will last til they die). These are people that can work but figure out how to work the system to pay them so they can be lazy. Worst part is that they are procreating and teaching these values to their children.

Montalban · Jul 8, 2010

people abuse the services here - and that's an issue

people can be on the dole for years

ebia · Jul 8, 2010

Tahoenite said:
For clarification, it is not the social services that are the issue in the US. It is the way that they are abused. We have people that go out of their way to get disability (where the government pays them because they are deemed unable to work, and this will last til they die). These are people that can work but figure out how to work the system to pay them so they can be lazy. Worst part is that they are procreating and teaching these values to their children.

You don't think that there are some people who will work the system wherever there is a system?

Tahoenite · Jul 9, 2010

I believe that there are people over there that abuse the system, but not to the degree nor as widespread as in the US. At least that is the impression I have gotten from the other studying we have done.

ebia · Jul 9, 2010

So let's turn the thing a bit more +ve: what is it about Australia that attracts you?

TheDag · Jul 9, 2010

Tahoenite said:
Could you please explain what the welfare state is over there? Sounds similar to ours.

another thing here in Oz is that the welfare system is not run by a government department but a statutory authority. The difference being that as a statutory authority they get to interpret the laws made by parliament for them. If they were a government department the govt would decide how those laws are interpreted and would be much more open to influence from politicians who are open to influence by people.

ebia said:
You don't think that there are some people who will work the system wherever there is a system?

and of course 40% of the welfare budget goes to the wealthy by design not by ripping of the system.

ebia · Jul 9, 2010

TheDag said:
another thing here in Oz is that the welfare system is not run by a government department but a statutory authority. The difference being that as a statutory authority they get to interpret the laws made by parliament for them. If they were a government department the govt would decide how those laws are interpreted and would be much more open to influence from politicians who are open to influence by people.

and of course 40% of the welfare budget goes to the wealthy by design not by ripping of the system.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not complaining about the welfare system supporting those at the bottom end at all. If a few people manipulate the system that's nothing compared to those at the other end manipulating the tax system. Neither am I under the illusion that getting out of welfare dependency is as straightforward as "getting on your bike".

I just don't want anyone to come to Australia to escape what they percieve to be a problem where they are only to find that they perceive the same problem when they get here.

vscola · Jul 9, 2010

Oh dear, I am so sorry ... I did not mean to start anything. I fear I posted after a rather bad day at work (where I see how the system fails people who need it) and I was lashing out. I work in the medical field and had just listened to another story of how they cannot afford insurance, but make too much to qualify for the state insurance (by about $10!) Please forgive me.

There is no perfect government system, although I wish that were not the case. Both my husband and I are frustrated by how our system is abused here, but you will find these feelings in every country I imagine.

We are looking into Australia because we wish to move to another country. We want our family to experience other ways of living then just what is in the US. We picked Australia because it is an English speaking country (important to my husband) and is simply breathtaking. The natural beauty is incredible and I have really enjoyed the laid back attitude of everyone we have met from that country. I wish I could explain why we feel the need to move. It's just something we both really want to do. Maybe it's the result of growing up hoping to see the world, I don't know.

For us, it came down to a decision between England and Australia, which would you rather live in?

ebia · Jul 9, 2010

vscola said:
For us, it came down to a decision between England and Australia, which would you rather live in?

They both have their strengths and their weaknesses. Australian pubs are dreadful.

(speaking as an Englishman who happens to live in Australia)

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