Thinking challenge!

[dusky_tresses]

At church last week during the women's study group, we were all asked a very good question regarding premarital sex. Many Christians continue to have premarital sex or start to engage in it, fully knowing that they shouldn't be and what the consequences are physically and spiritually.

We were asked "What are some logical arguments we can make about why it isn't wise to have sex before marriage?" But I am going to ask YOU ALL this:

"What are some logical arguments we can make about why is isn't wise to have sex before marriage WITHOUT talking about religion or morality?"

Now you're probably thinking "huh? why would you ask such a thing?" I want to make this challenging and YES I know that this is a Christian website so for me to ask to have nothing regarding religion or morality is odd, but I would really like to see what concrete arguments are out there that CAN'T be circumvented by the "well I can be forgiven" and the "morality is relative" arguments, that's why. And unfortunately, many believers use those arguments.

So let's get started!

 

[shadistarr]

I can think of a few reasons... one of them would be that not having sex until marriage is the only 100% fool proof way to not get pregnant or pickup an STD. Another one is talking about the emotional attachment that is created through sex. That can be a tough thing to lose if a relationship doesn't work out.

Just a side note... these are the very abreviated versions of the reasons I can think of currently

 

[DoubleK]

This is something that I have thought about before. I can think of a few reasons that have nothing to do with religion. However, IMO what's in the Bible is the best reason not to have pre-marital sex.

Here are some I can think of:

-Abstinence is the only 100% effective in preventing STDs and unwanted pregnancy.

- Emotional Attachment- It just makes sense to me that it would be much easier to break-up a relationship with someone if you didn't have sex with them

-Some people (well, probably just guys) will go out with someone just because they're attractive and they want to have sex with them (not because they like anything else about the person). Abstinence prevents these bad relationships.

I'm sure they are a few more reasons, but I can't think of any right now.

 

[Shazamataz]

I think the two points the previous posters have outlined are the two biggest arguments... I will add my two cents about the emotional attachment one... Some people, in my expereince, will say something in response to this about how it doesn't affect them, they can have sex with whoever they want without any attachment. That is such a lie, especially if it is a female who has said it. Women are created as emotional, feeling, sensitive people. We are attached emotionally in all relationships. The emotional damage caused by premarital sex is EXTREMELY hard to undo... and causes much heartache. Have a look at the world you live in. How much pain and heartache is there? (I know this is not all from premarital sex) Then there is another response, what if we don't break up? To which my response could be... but you don't know that, do you? Why not save yourself the pain and abstain? (hey, that rhymes!!! )

 

[Kol]

Most times people just get over this by finding someone else. Goes back to the whole thing about it being hard to stop once you start.

But really, if you're not christian, I don't see anything inherently wrong with pre-marital sex, as long as it's not some kind of psychological outlet. The requirements of Christianity are really above and beyond what being human requires. You all say it keeps people from getting hurt, but that's relationships in general. As far as unwanted pregnancy goes, that's a good thought as well, but if you accept pregnancy as a risk, it doesn't necessarily forbid sex.

But i know this doesn't help the OP...sorry.

 

[spr]

The finding someone else to fill emptiness thing is a horrible cycle. It goes down and down and down because people have expectations for a partner that only God can fill.

Having only one partner and knowing your going to be with them for life is a value that is beneficial to everyone, even if you don't believe in God.

If you don't have Christianity to teach the selfishness out of you, a relationship can at least teach some surface humility. Simple things like being able to see that something might not have been the other persons fault.. Relationships break up because people are unwilling(unable?) to humble themselves.

 

[Sketcher]

- It helps keep children in a more natural environment for them to be raised, that environment being two loving parents.

- It helps marriage relationships by eliminating sexual bonds between people who are not married. There are no memories to get in the way of two spouses enjoying each other.

- It helps people build self control and helps teach them to delay gratification. This in turn, helps marriages.

 

[Rebekka]

Even if you don't make this a religious issue, I still think there are good reasons to abstain until marriage. As others have said, STD's, unwanted pregnancy and heartache are reasons.

It's definitely harder to let go of someone if you have had sex with them - and if it's not a problem for you, now, to move on, it might become a problem for your future spouse. Many people have a problem with the sexual past their spouse has. That's certainly something to consider. Sex isn't only about the two persons involved right now, it's about all their future sexual partners, too. The fewer you have (ideal would be to save yourself for marriage), the better IMO - yes, for God, but also to prevent bitterness, anger, jealousy, and heartbreak.

Personal example. I saved myself for my husband, he didn't save himself for me. I have forgiven him because he feels sorry that he has slept with other women, and he wished he had waited, too. Well, I can't change the past. I truly wish he had waited, because sometimes I think of these other women and how he loved them, too. It kind of cheapens what we have. At least that's how I see it. It's better not to make a mistake than to make it and be forgiven for it - the memory can't be wiped out even though sin can.

 

[dusky_tresses]

Most times people just get over this by finding someone else. Goes back to the whole thing about it being hard to stop once you start.

But really, if you're not christian, I don't see anything inherently wrong with pre-marital sex, as long as it's not some kind of psychological outlet. The requirements of Christianity are really above and beyond what being human requires. You all say it keeps people from getting hurt, but that's relationships in general. As far as unwanted pregnancy goes, that's a good thought as well, but if you accept pregnancy as a risk, it doesn't necessarily forbid sex.

But i know this doesn't help the OP...sorry.

Actually you bring up a few good points. What I am wondering is, why should what your religious beliefs are have an impact on whether or not premarital sex is wrong? I know people who are not religious and believe that it's not a good decision, and I know people who are not religious who believe that it's their life and they are free to do as they please. Keep in mind this mentality is not one that thinks ahead about consequences-- it's more of a "live each day as you go." It doesn't look at the bigger picture.

And also, what you said is exactly what many Christians say to themselves to justify their actions-- not just nonreligious people.

It helps keep children in a more natural environment for them to be raised, that environment being two loving parents.

- It helps marriage relationships by eliminating sexual bonds between people who are not married. There are no memories to get in the way of two spouses enjoying each other.

- It helps people build self control and helps teach them to delay gratification. This in turn, helps marriages.

Now...I am going to play devil's advocate here. There have been many Christians who have counter-arguments for what you have said here (which were very good arguments).

Many people who are Christians believe that waiting until marriage is a "mistake" because you should be able to indulge in self-gratification. It's the whole "trying each other out" mentality.

Also, marriage does have two loving parents but that leads many people to say "you can still have two loving parents who had sex out of marriage and are raising a child together-- that point is nil."

Regarding the STDs argument: "That's what condoms are for, and as long as you take necessary precautions you should be fine."

The emotional attachment argument: "Every relationship carries the risk of emotional heartache, even ones where sex never happened."

 

[Sketcher]

Many people who are Christians believe that waiting until marriage is a "mistake" because you should be able to indulge in self-gratification. It's the whole "trying each other out" mentality.

But this would help them become more self-indulgent people, instead of self-sacrificing people. If you don't know how to self-sacrifice, and only know how to indulge, then you're going to be a much worse husband or wife for it. These people are advocating a "getting" way of thinking which doesn't help us to be "givers."

Also, marriage does have two loving parents but that leads many people to say "you can still have two loving parents who had sex out of marriage and are raising a child together-- that point is nil."

But you will have that less often, and much of the time it takes a lot more work by the couple to get to that point. Why start marriage at a deficit? Marriages need all the help they can get.

Regarding the STDs argument: "That's what condoms are for, and as long as you take necessary precautions you should be fine."

First, condoms and other contraceptives are not sure bets. They can be effective when used properly, but not everybody uses them properly when they're in heat. Given all the precautions people need to take for "safe sex" outside of marriage to reduce the chances of an unwanted disease or pregnancy (since it can never be eliminated) I'd say it's not worth the trouble. With a loving and faithful spouse, you already have trust, love, understanding, a support base for children, and no need to bother with contraceptives. You can just enjoy yourselves.

The emotional attachment argument: "Every relationship carries the risk of emotional heartache, even ones where sex never happened."

From what I have heard, the relationships with sexual attachment are going to give people a lot more heartache than those that didn't when break-up time comes. Things do vary from person to person, but from what I've heard this is a good general rule.

 

[dusky_tresses]

First, condoms and other contraceptives are not sure bets. They can be effective when used properly, but not everybody uses them properly when they're in heat. Given all the precautions people need to take for "safe sex" outside of marriage to reduce the chances of an unwanted disease or pregnancy (since it can never be eliminated) I'd say it's not worth the trouble. With a loving and faithful spouse, you already have trust, love, understanding, a support base for children, and no need to bother with contraceptives. You can just enjoy yourselves.

I'm glad you pointed this out. Very few people care for the term "user-failure" and believe that THEY could never toss the condom aside in the heat of the moment-- but that's what happens. People are not perfect and they certainly aren't perfect when it comes to being precautious during well....you know.

But I have more arguments. It's sorta weird being devil's advocate

I have seen this argument here in the forums and even made during interpersonal contact:

"Religion only places restrictions on pleasure, and people only want to wait until they're married because they're afraid of punishment."

Here's another one:

"Sex is a biological drive just like eating, drinking, sleeping, and excreting wastes. To deny it or restrict it is unnatural and wrong."

I can tell so far there have been very good counter-counter arguments

 

[Sketcher]

I have seen this argument here in the forums and even made during interpersonal contact:

"Religion only places restrictions on pleasure, and people only want to wait until they're married because they're afraid of punishment."

Religion does far more than put restrictions on pleasure, as true religion is a walk with the one true God. And fear of punishment? Come on, it's more like a healthy fear of the consequences. Whenever I see a single mother, or hear a guy complain about child support payments, I'm glad I'm not in their situation. And why am I not in their situation? This is not meant to be a personal boast, but the plain and simple reason is that I didn't make the sexual and relational mistakes that they did. There are so many poster children for the Christian model for relationships and sexuality, yet so few people realize it.

Here's another one:

"Sex is a biological drive just like eating, drinking, sleeping, and excreting wastes. To deny it or restrict it is unnatural and wrong."

Yes, but if you eat too much, you become unhealthy and obese. Much more so if you eat something that isn't food. You can also drink too much water for your own health. Sleep and excreting wastes requires a degree of self-control as well, lest you oversleep and be late to work, or soil yourself. All of these biological drives were created by God, and are good within certain limits. Outside these limits, they can be bad for you. God created sex, and knows the bounds in which it is good for a person. Outside those bounds, you're doing bad things to yourself and others, since sex involves at least two people and not just one.

 

[dusky_tresses]

I think your response to the first one was rather good, but what do you say to Christians who say "show me exactly where in the Bible is says to not have sex before marriage? Nothing in the Bible clearly states that."

 

[Chocolatesa]

It does mention fornication, and part of the definition is sex outside of marriage I beleive. Also the quote "better to be married than to burn with desire". Don't feel like looking them up at the moment, so I could be wrong, but just wanted to say what was on my mind. This topic has been a battle for me in my life as well.

 

[QuantaCura]

<double post>

 

[QuantaCura]

In the animal world there are promiscuous (multiple mates at once or in succession) animals and there are monogomous animals (one mate for life). If we look at the characteristics of monogomous animals and why they have that behavior and compare it to charitistics humans have, we see that the natural order for humans is monogomy. Of course, this is also a proof of sin--human beings have a penchant for acting in a way that deviates from the natural order.

This was basically the natural law argument on this issue by St. Thomas Aquinas.

 

[Chocolatesa]

I found this http://www.romanceacademy.org/index.html
and definitely think it relates because they don't seem to be based on the bible or Christianity.

 

[happyman154]

Herpes and unplanned pregnancy

 

[michelejosephine]

I think the two points the previous posters have outlined are the two biggest arguments... I will add my two cents about the emotional attachment one... Some people, in my expereince, will say something in response to this about how it doesn't affect them, they can have sex with whoever they want without any attachment. That is such a lie, especially if it is a female who has said it. Women are created as emotional, feeling, sensitive people. We are attached emotionally in all relationships. The emotional damage caused by premarital sex is EXTREMELY hard to undo... and causes much heartache. Have a look at the world you live in. How much pain and heartache is there? (I know this is not all from premarital sex) Then there is another response, what if we don't break up? To which my response could be... but you don't know that, do you? Why not save yourself the pain and abstain? (hey, that rhymes!!! )

I am not in any way condoning my past behavior, but I can tell you as a female we all don't get attached. Trust me.

 

[white dove]

... but I can tell you as a female we all don't get attached. Trust me.

Very true.