Thinking about Technology

[Adara]

In our discussion about not being conformed to the world's ways by what we wear, I thought it might be helpful to share how we differentiate ourselves by how we interact with technology.

Before going on, I perhaps need to define what I mean by "technology". This is a broad, all-encompassing word that has many meanings. In this instance, I'm referring to a class of objects we normally refer to as technological - tools, instruments, machines, appliances, weapons, gadgets and the like.

The use of these things isn't usually directly addressed by non-traditional Christian communities, but as technology flows more seamlessly into our lives than ever before, we have begun to take notice. How often are we immersed in worldly imagery on television, the internet, or even cellphones? Billboards, radio and newspaper ads...the messages of self-gratification are pervasive and persuasive. Our interactions with one another are being reduced to disjointed sound-bytes: quick, cold and impersonal.

What is our reaction? Do we do away with these things, or find another solution? Can we convince others that it's possible to be selective in how we live with technological advances?

Can we even convince ourselves?

 

[Danfrey]

This is a tough one. As a family we have been from one extreme to the other and I struggle with finding balance.

 

[CelticRose]

Books are my downfall. I'll read just about anything & the Holy Spirit has been working with me on this. I don't like much t.v & what I do bothers my concience so now I hardly watch at all. I don't like the radio (noise bothers me) or cell phones (don't own one) & only use my computer to type but this is a hard one. Society expects everyone to own & use certain things. We are on the net basically for homeschooling purposes but I struggle with all the things you mention. When is enough enough? This is a largeish household too & everyone's needs are different. I'd never choose to watch sport but all my men folk are avid watchers of sport. I would have sold both the t.v & the radio but DH wants them so we have them. He is dyslexic (as are all my sons) & that's the easiest way for him to acquire information. As in so many things one needs to submit to the Holy Spirit's promptings & graciously acknowledge that what is o.k for one family may be completely wrong for another. I shall be very interested to see what others have to say on this issue. Hot potato.

 

[MrJim]

My computer went on the fritz last night (I'm at the library now) and I felt so disconnected that it almost made me sick. Then I got to thinking, this is how a drug addict feels when he can't get his fix.

Still as Dan said there is balance that is needed...

 

[ZiSunka]

Can we convince others that it's possible to be selective in how we live with technological advances?

The choice is ours. We can use or not use anything we want, anything we feel convicted not to use.

I think that technology itself is not worldly or an enemy. It's neutral, neither evil nor good. It may magnify or display worldliness that's already inside us, problems we already had, but it isn't causing them without our colusion. If we are addicted or using the internet or any other technology badly, the problem is in us, not in the machine.

I think it's important to note here that the Amish aren't opposed to technology because it's inherently evil, but because it makes them dependent on the worldly system, things like electricity, fuel, machine parts that can't be made by the local blacksmith have been shunned, not because they represent something evil or unspiritual, but because they depend on something outside Amish control, something that can be difficult to get someday or be limited in supply. But even now, Amish are starting realize that this belief is in itself false. The blacksmith makes things out of steel or iron, but he doesn't mine the iron himself or make the steel, he has to buy it from the worldly system. The farrier doesn't make the horseshoes, he buys them from the worldly system. The Amish don't cut the lumber that makes their homes and buggies, they buy it from the worldly system. The Amish are starting to realize that just by existing in this world at this time, when they can no longer be self-sufficient in the real sense, they are part of the worldly system (if you doubt this, come see how many Amish families buy fabric and thread and underwear and shoes from our local walmart!).

I don't know where this will lead for them for the future, but I do know that not many of them believe there is much future left.

 

[brother daniel]

The choice is ours. We can use or not use anything we want, anything we feel convicted not to use.

I think that technology itself is not worldly or an enemy. It's neutral, neither evil nor good. It may magnify or display worldliness that's already inside us, problems we already had, but it isn't causing them without our colusion. If we are addicted or using the internet or any other technology badly, the problem is in us, not in the machine.

I think it's important to note here that the Amish aren't opposed to technology because it's inherently evil, but because it makes them dependent on the worldly system, things like electricity, fuel, machine parts that can't be made by the local blacksmith have been shunned, not because they represent something evil or unspiritual, but because they depend on something outside Amish control, something that can be difficult to get someday or be limited in supply. But even now, Amish are starting realize that this belief is in itself false. The blacksmith makes things out of steel or iron, but he doesn't mine the iron himself or make the steel, he has to buy it from the worldly system. The farrier doesn't make the horseshoes, he buys them from the worldly system. The Amish don't cut the lumber that makes their homes and buggies, they buy it from the worldly system. The Amish are starting to realize that just by existing in this world at this time, when they can no longer be self-sufficient in the real sense, they are part of the worldly system (if you doubt this, come see how many Amish families buy fabric and thread and underwear and shoes from our local walmart!).

I don't know where this will lead for them for the future, but I do know that not many of them believe there is much future left.

I am with the Amish in that I don’t see much future left.

However I am more inclined to the Hutterite use of technology for farming. The internet is what I use as prosthesis, an artificial extension to reach others and exchange information concerning the message of Christ, in what I am convinced. are these LAST DAYS.

My focus is on living the words of Jesus and assisting my neighbors.

I anticipate a soon coming local event, where the common infrastructure that delivers, energy water and food will fail.

It dos not matter what triggers it, war, plague, weather, earthquakes of debt, it will happen.

With that in mind, I no longer live in an urban environment. With Gods help I now live a life where I can haul my own water, cut my own firewood and cultivate edible protean.

As long as there is public telephone and electricity I use them.

There is no doubt that a community of disciples with willing hands and minds can develop a sustainable, healthy local economy.

On the property I am caretaking, water power is the key. I am in the process of constructing water storage tanks on our high ground. With over a hundred foot drop to the lowest point, I can generate electricity using a stream from a ½ inch pipe to turn a small dynamo...

Controlling temperature and light in an indoor environment, I can grow food year round.

With love in Christ
brother daniel

 

[ZiSunka]

The Amish aren't as isolationist as they used to be. Every Amish farm is now wired for electic--they need it for refrigeration, because unless the raw milk is kept chilled, they can't sell it. Most of the farms also have running water now, since that is required for cleanliness in the barn adn milking parlors, and many of them have extended the plumbing from the barn into the house. More of them are also buying autos to get around in and even getting driver's licenses. In Ohio in 2004, several thousand registered to vote and helped to defeat the gay marriage proposal. The Trumbull County board of elections has reported that about 30% of registered Amish voters continue to vote on local ballots because they realize that their resistence to voting has contributed to the moral decline of the community. This year we are voting on gambling and smoking issues. Since many Amish smoke or chew, I don't know if they will vote on the smoking issues, but I expect they will have a voice on the gambling issues.

People romanticize the Amish and attribute things to them that aren't necessarily true. Since each Amish community is locally governed and elders change over time, what was true about them 50 years ago may not be true today. In fact, what was true about them 10 years ago may not be true today.

Since issues like cars and utilities are not Biblically-addressed issues, it is up to the elders to determine the Amish position on such things. As they see merit in using modern conveniences that outweigh the problems, they change their positions on them. One Amish community has even begun to pay neighboring farmers to plant and harvest their crops with planters and combines, because it can be done more cheaply and with a higher yield and higher profits. Joe told me last week that on one Amish farm he works on, the yield increased from 100 bushes per acre to almost 150 bushels per acre (Joe had 170 bushels per acre on his land this year, for comparison). No farmer can justify being content with 100 bushel when he can have 150 bushels.

Technology is something that can't be ignored and avoided. For farmers especially, even Amish farmers, 50 bushels per acre is the difference between feeding the family and going hungry. An Amish farm I know outside of Middlefield has even bought its own equipment and has taken training in modern farming methods.

There is no virtue in being stubbornly 100 years behind the time.

And by the way, the traditional technology that Amish farmers use is only about 100 years old. The windmill, the thresher, the seed drill, those were all invented in the 19th-20th centuries. All throughout time, the Amish have been slow to accept new techs, but the have accepted them.

Most Amish businesses have phones and many even have websites now.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

simple

 

[ACADEMIC]

The Amish aren't as isolationist as they used to be .... In Ohio in 2004, several thousand registered to vote and helped to defeat the gay marriage proposal. The Trumbull County board of elections has reported that about 30% of registered Amish voters continue to vote on local ballots because they realize that their resistence to voting has contributed to the moral decline of the community. This year we are voting on gambling and smoking issues. Since many Amish smoke or chew, I don't know if they will vote on the smoking issues, but I expect they will have a voice on the gambling issues.

Very interesting post.

It seems the Amish are learning Jer 29:7.

And seek (inquire for, require, and request) the peace and welfare of the city to which I have caused you to be carried away captive; and pray to the Lord for it, for in the welfare of [the city in which you live] you will have welfare (Amplified Bible).

I understand the Hebrew here deliberately disconnects the ideas between the semi-colon.

In other words, to "seek (inquire for, require, and request) the peace and welfare of the city" is not done by prayer alone, mentioned after the semi-colon. It is done by taking actions. It is also done by prayer. It is not done by just one or the other.

It is very nice to see how seeking, inquiring for, requiring, and requesting the peace and welfare of the city" is includes voting for these Amish.

 

[Adara]

I agree; technology of itself is not evil. However I have found that being selective has changed my Christian walk for the better.

For example:

I have a cell phone, but keep it in the car for emergencies. That way, I am never tempted to interrupt a conversation with a friend.

I don't have a television, because it took up too much time, and it was sending subtle messages about how someone in our society should look, think and act, messages that were decidedly not Christ-like.

I restrict where I go on the internet, and have, at times, avoided it altogether for set periods of time. Eventually I may end up not using it all, as more and more advertising and video get past adblocks, etc.

I use a push mower for my lawn, because it's A) quiet B) good excercise, and C) good stewardship for the environment.

I don't get newspaper delivery because of C) as well.

Now don't get the impression that I think anyone else should take these specific actions. We are all different and have different levels of technological interaction. I just think that it might be useful to take a moment to consider how we are (or are not) choosing to let gadgets into our lives.

As even the Amish know, we cannot take ourselves out of the world. Even if we started all over on a desert island, we'd take the world with us, in our hearts. Nevertheless, I still make an effort to draw a line, and the line is this: Anything that directly pulls me away from God or from serving others is to be restricted or done away with.

 

[ZiSunka]

Good points Adara!

The mutineers from the Bounty tried to start a new society away from the pressures and problems of contemporary English life and thought they would have a better world than the one they had left, but they soon had a disaster on their hands. They ended up in a worse situation than they ever had it on the Bounty.

They had neglected the word of God in their new island, and this led to fighting, killing, adultery and rape. The men and women acted as they thought best in their own interests.

Only when they began to study God's word and act on it and to commit themselves to Jesus did things settle down. They never achieved the idyllic society they hoped for, but life was much better.

When we give ourselves over to everything but God, we will always be the victims of our culture, even when we try to get away from it, because the culture is in us because human nature is in us.

So those people who believe that they can form a Christian society by screening out the culture are just kidding themselves--if it is too challenging to live as a Christian within the culture, you won't be able to do it separated from the culture, either. You'll just be taking everything with you to a different place.

Other Christians have tried it over the centuries and the result is always the same, because wherever you go, there you are!

 

[brother daniel]

Good points Adara!

So those people who believe that they can form a Christian society by screening out the culture are just kidding themselves--if it is too challenging to live as a Christian within the culture, you won't be able to do it separated from the culture, either. You'll just be taking everything with you to a different place.

Other Christians have tried it over the centuries and the result is always the same, because wherever you go, there you are!

Jesus Christ and his disciples lived a seperated life in the amongs the culture of Jews and Romans.

Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;


Act 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any [of them] that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

Jews and Romans wereont living that way. It was a new Christian society, in this world but not of it.
And it continues

The Waldensians or Vaudois are a Christian denomination believing in poverty and austerity, founded around 1173, promoting true poverty, public preaching and the literal interpretation of the scriptures. Declared heretical, the movement was brutally persecuted by the Roman Catholic church during the 12th and 13th centuries and nearly totally destroyed, but the Waldensian Church survives to this day.

Their example was followed by the Swiss anibaptists,
THE ANABAPTISTS
[SIZE=+2]AND THE REFORMATION[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]Chris Good[/SIZE]
© 1998 http://www.rbc.org.nz/library/anabap.htm



On a cold winters morning, 21 January 1525, in the Swiss city of Zurich, Conrad Grebel baptised George Blaurock, who in turn baptised the others present. So was formed the first distinct reformed Protestant congregation of the Reformation era, and the first church of baptised believers in over 1000 years. Within 10 years almost all involved would have been martyred yet the movement they began would prosper.

• Who were these people?
• Why did they reform the church to the biblical pattern when so many of their more able and famous contemporaries could not?
• Why were they so fiercely persecuted by Protestants and Catholics alike?

The Anabaptists, like the Reformers, stood for

• Sola Scriptura: The Word alone is the Authority and Weapon of the Faith.
• Sola Fidei: Faith in Christ alone is the basis of the Church.

The Evangelical Anabaptists alone stood for a Christianity centered solely around God's Word as her only weapon. We see this worked out in the subsequent history of the Anabaptist movement. However, despite their correct understanding of the nature of the Church as a spiritual body, the Anabaptists were not immune from the errors of those around them.


The Anabaptists, like the Reformers, stood for

• Sola Scriptura: The Word alone is the Authority and Weapon of the Faith.
• Sola Fidei: Faith in Christ alone is the basis of the Church.

The Evangelical Anabaptists alone stood for a Christianity centered solely around God's Word as her only weapon. We see this worked out in the subsequent history of the Anabaptist movement. However, despite their correct understanding of the nature of the Church as a spiritual body, the Anabaptists were not immune from the errors of those around them.


The early Hutterites were exclusivistic, tending to regard themselves as the only true church. This was because they saw the true marks of the church as including the practice of community of goods. Hence they had a territorial view of the church. Converts were expected to travel to join with the true church/community. Often this required traveling great distances. Many converts were encouraged to leave behind their unbelieving spouses and children, though they were permitted to write to them to encourage them to come to the "paradise" of the Hutterite communities. Some leaders were also not adverse to sheep stealing from other Anabaptist groups. It is certain that the relative prosperity of the communities persuaded some poverty stricken individuals to become converts, but the practice of church discipline often weeded these out. The Hutterites were protected from the excesses of the Spiritulisers due to Hutter's background as an Evangelical Swiss Anabaptist with his resultant emphasis on Scripture as the sole authority. They avoided polygamy (the communism of wives), but did have a communal education system rather than children being raised in families. Marriages also were often arranged. Because the communistic system requires a certain amount of bureaucracy and organisation, the Hutterites moved away from a congregational to a semi-episcopal bishopric system of government.

• Free-will understanding of salvation
• Voluntary community concept of the church
• Believer baptism
• Communistic: private ownership forbidden for the church is to be characterised by love demonstrated in total sharing
• Hierarchical church government
• Dualistic: a strong sacred-secular distinction taken further than other Anabaptists. Christians are to be separate from the world
• Pacifistic

It is possable to live in communiti in this world culture and still not be part of it. I and others do it.

With love in Christ
brother daniel

 

[ZiSunka]

I'm not sure what all that has to do with technology.

 

[Adara]

Brother Daniel wrote:

It is possable to live in communiti in this world culture and still not be part of it. I and others do it.

Would you like to share any specifics on how your group chooses to use certain tools/gadgets? The Hutterites, whom you mentioned, decide what technologies should be allowed in their colonies in a rather regimented fashion; does your group use their model, or.....?

 

[brother daniel]

Brother Daniel wrote:

Would you like to share any specifics on how your group chooses to use certain tools/gadgets? The Hutterites, whom you mentioned, decide what technologies should be allowed in their colonies in a rather regimented fashion; does your group use their model, or.....?

The issue of technology has never come up.
How the brethren share tools has been a question that is resolved in group councel as it comes up.

At this time my tree has been trimmed back to the root. 8 of us were gathered here overnight this last weekend,
all young adults except my wife and myself.

Its harvest time now. I have lived and preached in this area for the last three years. Interest is growing.

With love in Christ
brother daniel

 

[brother daniel]

I'm not sure what all that has to do with technology.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashes,EmeraldsAndDiamonds
Good points Adara!

So those people who believe that they can form a Christian society by screening out the culture are just kidding themselves--if it is too challenging to live as a Christian within the culture, you won't be able to do it separated from the culture, either. You'll just be taking everything with you to a different place.

Other Christians have tried it over the centuries and the result is always the same, because wherever you go, there you are!


You seemed to be focusing more on culture than technology. sorry if I miss understood you.

with love in Christ
brother daniel

 

[brother daniel]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashes,EmeraldsAndDiamonds
Good points Adara!

So those people who believe that they can form a Christian society by screening out the culture are just kidding themselves--if it is too challenging to live as a Christian within the culture, you won't be able to do it separated from the culture, either. You'll just be taking everything with you to a different place.

Other Christians have tried it over the centuries and the result is always the same, because wherever you go, there you are!


You seemed to be focusing more on culture than technology. sorry if I miss understood you.

with love in Christ
brother daniel

I am dealing with an interesting challange.

Paul was a tent maker, I am a multi media artist. I have written, acted directed and produced theatrical performances on stage, film and video.

Today I am caretaking a 40 acre property for a major TV network producer and writer. I have been living here for three years and slowely being reconciled with my estranged adult children.

I am comfortable using this property to video tape the changes that are occuring as I preach and teach.

Over the years I have learned many lessons about how to live in a community of brethren with all things comon as did the early Swiss anabaptist.

Now in this new venture I am starting to document how we go about living and working together. The resulting content should help those who wish to live closer to the example of Jesus and his early disciples.

I am not the best example of anything but I am an example of what God can do in changing a persons mind and habits.

With love in Christ
brother daniel

 

[Danfrey]

Brother Daniel,

It sounds like God is and has been at work in your family's life. I am sure the documentation will be a blessing. It is amazing to me how God takes those things we are good at and puts them to work for the kingdom.

Blessings,
Danfrey