Thinking about leaving?

[sf3612]

4 billion dollars in payouts to victims of homosexual clergy predators. Pachamama. The revelations about Francis (known to all) and revealed, for example, in Vigano's new book. The secret deal with the CCP with the Vatican/Francis. The USCCB, most failing to lead. Many homosexual. Many allowing pro-abortion politicians to receive Communion. The treatment of Fr Altman and other conservative priests. Francis' latest response to the TLM. Lackluster preaching, music, liturgy. I could go on. Almost every week comes another revelation of heresy and/or sexual wrongdoing. I'm not sure I can take much more. One foot already out the door. How about you??

 

[HTacianas]

4 billion dollars in payouts to victims of homosexual clergy predators. Pachamama. The revelations about Francis (known to all) and revealed, for example, in Vigano's new book. The secret deal with the CCP with the Vatican/Francis. The USCCB, most failing to lead. Many homosexual. Many allowing pro-abortion politicians to receive Communion. The treatment of Fr Altman and other conservative priests. Francis' latest response to the TLM. Lackluster preaching, music, liturgy. I could go on. Almost every week comes another revelation of heresy and/or sexual wrongdoing. I'm not sure I can take much more. One foot already out the door. How about you??

If it helps, in any way:

Mat 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples,
Mat 23:2 Saying, “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat.
Mat 23:3 “Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do.

 

[BrAndreyu]

I struggle with leaving a lot, the only problem is that aside from the Orthodox church, where I'd have to re-learn the entire faith and be re-baptized and re-confirmed, I don't know where else I would go. The Episcopalian church is worse in terms of the whole woke socialist thing, the ELCA is a dying denomination that's also pretty woke and then you factor in that none of these churches are going to feel the same, and I don't know what to do because there isn't anywhere else to go. I've fought with the idea of becoming Orthodox for many years-- I find the churches beautiful and they hold to, well, orthodox Christian values but it's not the church I grew up in and found comfort in during dark periods of my life. There also aren't a whole lot of Orthodox churches around when compared to the number of Roman Catholic parishes and the community is very significantly smaller than that of the diocese.

When I say that I don't know what to do, I mean it with all of the conviction that one can muster.

 

[sf3612]

I struggle with leaving a lot, the only problem is that aside from the Orthodox church, where I'd have to re-learn the entire faith and be re-baptized and re-confirmed, I don't know where else I would go. The Episcopalian church is worse in terms of the whole woke socialist thing, the ELCA is a dying denomination that's also pretty woke and then you factor in that none of these churches are going to feel the same, and I don't know what to do because there isn't anywhere else to go. I've fought with the idea of becoming Orthodox for many years-- I find the churches beautiful and they hold to, well, orthodox Christian values but it's not the church I grew up in and found comfort in during dark periods of my life. There also aren't a whole lot of Orthodox churches around when compared to the number of Roman Catholic parishes and the community is very significantly smaller than that of the diocese.

When I say that I don't know what to do, I mean it with all of the conviction that one can muster.

I tried Orthodoxy a couple of years ago. Much respect for them, but (I tried) just could not adjust to the Eastern liturgy. I also did not feel that, after awhile, I was as 'welcome' as I was in the beginning. I couldn't go back, frankly. I think the only option for me would be the LCMS.

 

[sf3612]

If it helps, in any way:

Mat 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples,
Mat 23:2 Saying, “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat.
Mat 23:3 “Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do.

I appreciate that. However, when one has doubts like I do, you have doubts about the whole set of claims/dogmas of the Catholic Church. You have doubts that it is THE church Christ founded. Therefore your response (well-intended I'm sure) doesn't really do much for me. Sorry. I have also begun a very in-depth study of the history and unique dogmas of the Catholic Church. I was a convert 8 years ago, and am re-examining those specific beliefs that once convinced me to 'swim the Tiber'.

 

[Gnarwhal]

Nope. Everything that's happening sucks, but I also feel a sense of excitement because I really think it's purifying the Church, refining it the way the impurities are removed from gold by fire. It's showing us who the real Catholics are, and who isn't. Maybe the real Catholics are in a minority but at least we know, there's no ambiguity. Maybe we're headed towards worse persecution, maybe we're headed towards genocide, who knows? But if we have a chance to be martyrs, whether white or red, we should welcome that.

Believe me I understand the appeal of finding somewhere else, because the Church being so beat up and bruised makes it seem unrecognizable and thus "maybe it's not the Church" ... but it is, she needs us now more than ever to help her heal, recover, and build strength for her next bout.

Also I just got here, I don't want to get up and leave (not that I ever would even if I'd been here a while).

"Where shall we go? You have the words of eternal life."

I tried Orthodoxy a couple of years ago. Much respect for them, but (I tried) just could not adjust to the Eastern liturgy. I also did not feel that, after awhile, I was as 'welcome' as I was in the beginning. I couldn't go back, frankly. I think the only option for me would be the LCMS.

I almost converted to them before I converted to Rome. I found their phyletism too distasteful, not to mention their unsolicited hostility towards Catholicism. I know you mean about not feeling "welcome" too.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

I said no. I hear everyone discussing how it feels like we are in the latter times. So does everyone feel the Orthodox will be immune from encroachment of the world and the attacks of the evil one? The grass is never greener. The scripture talks about these times and that we need to remain faithful until the end.

 

[Bob Crowley]

Well, as my old pastor used to say "One bunch of sinners is pretty much the same as the next."

It wouldn't matter what church, organisation, political party or tiddley-winks club we were in, the human factor would be precisely the same - fallen. I don't need to look any further than myself to see that.

This means then that decision you have to make is based on truth - which church is closest to the truth?

I'll admit that's not particularly original on my part. Sometime after he died, I had a vision one night of the same old (Presbyterian) pastor I mentioned above, in which he simply appeared and said "The Catholic Church is closest to the truth", with a distinct emphasis on the word "closest". Then he just disappeared again.

So I'll be staying here, despite all the church's faults (and mine).

It's as simple as that.

 

[Red Gold]

I am THINKING about leaving - but probably I won't DO so.

 

[pdudgeon]

4 billion dollars in payouts to victims of homosexual clergy predators. Pachamama. The revelations about Francis (known to all) and revealed, for example, in Vigano's new book. The secret deal with the CCP with the Vatican/Francis. The USCCB, most failing to lead. Many homosexual. Many allowing pro-abortion politicians to receive Communion. The treatment of Fr Altman and other conservative priests. Francis' latest response to the TLM. Lackluster preaching, music, liturgy. I could go on. Almost every week comes another revelation of heresy and/or sexual wrongdoing. I'm not sure I can take much more. One foot already out the door. How about you??

Yes, all the above and more.
But there is one thing that is most discouraging for me. Where I thought to find great support for NOT taking "The Shot" that supports abortion, and also great support in the saving power of God, instead I find great support for abortion, government mandates, and the prequil for another round of Nazi Germany-type socialism.
In my parish I could count on one hand the number of families that are trusting in God to bring them through these times.
Oh how sad it is!!

 

[chevyontheriver]

4 billion dollars in payouts to victims of homosexual clergy predators. Pachamama. The revelations about Francis (known to all) and revealed, for example, in Vigano's new book. The secret deal with the CCP with the Vatican/Francis. The USCCB, most failing to lead. Many homosexual. Many allowing pro-abortion politicians to receive Communion. The treatment of Fr Altman and other conservative priests. Francis' latest response to the TLM. Lackluster preaching, music, liturgy. I could go on. Almost every week comes another revelation of heresy and/or sexual wrongdoing. I'm not sure I can take much more. One foot already out the door. How about you??

I think about it. Any thinking person should be troubled by what you raised. The last eight years have been crazy.

But I'm not going to leave. I'm digging in instead. They are not going to turn me into something other than a faithful Catholic no matter how bad the wreckers enjoying their wrecking get. Everything you mentioned is a problem, and none of them are little problems. And it's been a particularly hard two weeks with pope Francis trying to kill off a valid liturgical rite, Grindr all over the place, and the wide corruption now finally coming out about the NAC. I feel body slammed. I have been body slammed. But I will not let these people win.

I had a somewhat inflated view of papal infallibility coming into the Francis papacy. It was understandable with a long string of good and great popes, all of them being at least adequate for a hundred years. Now I realize how limited a thing infallibility actually is. Francis has shown me how limited it is, not that he was trying to.

Orthodoxy has problems, the LCMS has problems. We should be working with them in a common cause but not pretend that the grass is greener there. It's just a different shade of brown. They have some of the same weeds my lawn has and some weeds I don't even have in my yard.

Now is the time to dig in. To find a good confessor and get clean of our own sins. To really establish the life of a ninja prayer warrior saying the Liturgy of the Hours and spending the time in pleading with God. To be sure we are obedient and charitable in the face of dissolution. To find the good and support it. To avoid the evil and reveal it. I'm trying. It seems so uphill a battle. But what's new?

 

[Petros2015]

With empathy towards the struggle of the OP, John 21 always encourages me, no matter what others are doing.

15 When they had finished eating, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon son of John, do you love me more than these?” “Yes, Lord,” he said, “you know that I love you.” Jesus said, “Feed my lambs.”
16 Again Jesus said, “Simon son of John, do you love me?” He answered, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.” Jesus said, “Take care of my sheep.”
17 The third time he said to him, “Simon son of John, do you love me?”
Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, “Do you love me?” He said, “Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you.” Jesus said, “Feed my sheep.
18 Very truly I tell you, when you were younger you dressed yourself and went where you wanted; but when you are old you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go.”
19 Jesus said this to indicate the kind of death by which Peter would glorify God. Then he said to him, “Follow me!”
20 Peter turned and saw that the disciple whom Jesus loved was following them. (This was the one who had leaned back against Jesus at the supper and had said, “Lord, who is going to betray you?”)
21 When Peter saw him, he asked, “Lord, what about him?”
22 Jesus answered, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me.”

 

[Gnarwhal]

For a lot of us who are traddy or at least sympathetic to trads, the Francis pontificate at one point or another (and especially in the wake of Traditionis Custodes) has seen us entertain a notion of leaving, if only momentarily. I think it's normal in situations like this for us to want to just get away because we feel invaded upon, or abused, or otherwise facing unfair hostility from our own father. We see corruption in the Vatican, in the USCCB, scandal (for us in the US) with the sex abuse crisis, and suddenly, you know, Constantinople or the SSPX or SSPV or maybe for some folks even one of the protestant traditions suddenly shines a little brighter looking up from these depths.

But it's a mirage.

The reality is the answer isn't in Orthodoxy or protestantism. They're fighting their own ugly battles, so the grass isn't greener. Believe me, I was protestant, and I'd much rather be fighting these battles here in the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church than one of their battles in a schismatic church. We're the bigger target, so the world's attacks against Christianity are going to be leveled at us first and more frequently. They have protestantism right where they want them (especially the mainliners) and they haven't turned their attention much to Orthodoxy yet because the cultural divisions are keeping them busy enough that the world doesn't seem them as a threat yet.

 

[BrAndreyu]

So does everyone feel the Orthodox will be immune from encroachment of the world and the attacks of the evil one?

in theory, the Orthodox churches wouldn't change to accommodate homo & transexual ideology and would still be adamantly against abortion, nor would they amend their divine liturgies because of what's in the name: Orthodox. The fact that the Roman Church is moving in this direction is disconcerting is the understatement of the century and like I said, I believe that these moves are being made because Obama got a pope in and is leaning on said pope to the extreme (much like I believe that he's the one pulling Biden's strings). Of course this could all be baseless paranoia on my part and the church could be changing because of factors other than pressure from the de facto leader of the Democrat party in America. But the issue of cuddling up to abomination is front and center in my mind because that has the greatest potential to tear the church down brick by brick.

But while I think a lot about jumping ship for Constantinople, my mind wonders "does it really matter at the end of the day?" Constantinople has it's own problems as others have pointed out & if they become the only Church that holds to the gospel, then Obama will just begin leaning on them and there's a chance that they'll fold much quicker despite having the Russians in their corner and their government promoting a pro-heterosexual and pro-family policy because they are so divided up by nationality.

I have dreams about the Orthodox church a lot though. I had one of them last night, so I'm not sure if that's some sort of a sign to me of things to come or what have you.

 

[pdudgeon]

I feel most sorry for the priests in this situation. How they manage to stand their ground while Rome goes crazy is amazing to me.
But I also know that God will raise up warriors to defend Him, and that the truth will come out in the end.
What I pray for most is that I can see clearly what is happening, and that God gives me the courage to say and do the right things at the right times.

More than that I cannot ask.
My life is in His hands.

 

[Justin Peter]

No. I'm in the church founded by Jesus Christ. None of its members, myself included, are perfect or without sin but I didn't join it to find perfect, sinless people. I joined it to be a member of Christ's church, where I can receive the sacraments including Christ's body and blood.

 

[Gnarwhal]

No. I'm in the church founded by Jesus Christ. None of its members, myself included, are perfect or without sin but I didn't join it to find perfect, sinless people. I joined it to be a member of Christ's church, where I can receive the sacraments including Christ's body and blood.

Atta boyyyy