Think about it a moment...

[IndyEllis]

I saw this thread about "Do these go to hell?"

Can't post over there can I just can't honest say I serious believe the Niceaen Creed at all anymore. (But think reading a lot of the post in the "Christian" section I think there a good number of people on this forum proclaiming their Christianity without actually understanding and truly believing the many core doctrines but that's another matter.)

Anyhow, I can't post over there. But here was my thought...

"I created humankind and knowingly, in my omniciousness and omnipotence, am willing to see BILLIONS of them, in fact the vast majority of them, eternally tortured in order to have a few predestined to love me, worship me, and obey me." ~ God.
​

Think about it a moment...

Seriously. Just think about it.

 

[metherion]

It all depends on what denomination you belong to.

Well, maybe not all, but a lot.

For instance, the Roman Catholic Church teaches that people who through no fault of their own never heard of Christ but still acted according to how He wanted humanity to act (among others) DO have a shot at getting to Heaven.

I'd post more examples, but not belonging to other denominations, I'm really not familiar enough with them to confidently do so.

Metherion

 

[IndyEllis]

It all depends on what denomination you belong to.

Err. Uhh. That would be evidence that it's pretty much just made up.

Otherwise it would not at all depend upon the denomination or the individuals beliefs and it would sole depend upon GOD.

Either:

a) Somebody's theology is right and pretty much everybody else's (obviously conflicting) theology is off then mark.
b) Everybody's theology is off the mark and nobody really has it figured out.
c) It's all just made up. The world's most wildly believed myth.

Your post is pointing to c.

I'd post more examples, but not belonging to other denominations, I'm really not familiar enough with them to confidently do so.

Then how do you KNOW you've got the right theology and your soul is safe? The remaining alternatives is are that your soul just might not be all that safe or it's all just a myth and doesn't really matter any ways.

While what denominations hope is so greatly varies, what truly is absolutely so does not.

Time for some sorting out with fear and trembling...

 

[Tavita]

I think God will do a pretty good job of judging who goes where as He is the only one who can see into the heart. I'm sure there are countless millions who will be given eternal life to live with God forever that we would otherwise think or judge as never being able to be saved or spend eternity with Him.
We are only called to witness and preach the gospel, we are not called to declare to any man that they will go to hell and suffer torture forever. And that's another thing... I do not believe that anyone will suffer torture forever. When you believe and are born again from on high, THEN you receive ETERNAL LIFE. Until then you are stuck in DEATH, and Death will be thrown into the lake of fire to be burned up along with the rest of the known universe, after which there will be a new heavens and a new earth.

You only know your soul is safe by believing in the sacrificial death of Jesus for yourself personally. Otherwise, let God be the judge.


(Joh 16:7 NASB) "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.
(Joh 16:8 NASB) "And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;
(Joh 16:9 NASB) concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;
(Joh 16:10 NASB) and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me;
(Joh 16:11 NASB) and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.

(Joh 3:16 NASB) "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

(Rev 20:14 NASB) Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

 

[ebia]

Err. Uhh. That would be evidence that it's pretty much just made up.

Or just that the truth is too complex for any of us to have a complete handle on it.

Then how do you KNOW you've got the right theology and your soul is safe?

Salvation is by the grace of God (through faith). Having a perfect and complete understanding of correct doctrine is not a requirement.

 

[Adstar]

I saw this thread about "Do these go to hell?"

Can't post over there can I just can't honest say I serious believe the Niceaen Creed at all anymore. (But think reading a lot of the post in the "Christian" section I think there a good number of people on this forum proclaiming their Christianity without actually understanding and truly believing the many core doctrines but that's another matter.)

Anyhow, I can't post over there. But here was my thought...

"I created humankind and knowingly, in my omniciousness and omnipotence, am willing to see BILLIONS of them, in fact the vast majority of them, eternally tortured in order to have a few predestined to love me, worship me, and obey me." ~ God.​

Think about it a moment...

Seriously. Just think about it.

This is a forum section for Questions to Christians.

I cannot see a question in your posts. So do you have a question?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Emmy]

Dear IndyEllis, you are entitled to believe your own statements, but you can never change the sincere belief, thousands upon thousands of Christian men and = women. We believe the Nicene Creed, we know that Jesus died, to set us free, we know that Jesus reconciled us to God, we know that Jesus vanquished Satan and Death on Golgotha, we know that God is LOVE, and we know where we are going. We have found your statements wrong, and we can, and will testify to Jesus being the Truth, the Way, and the Life. I say this humbly and with love, IndyEllis, and send greetings. Emmy, sister in Christ.

 

[metherion]

On the other hand, there might be a bit of interpretation involved.

Jesus said that none go to the Father but through Him.

Now, does this mean none go to the Father but through BELIEF in Him, or that none go to the Father but through His sacrifice, or something else entirely?

The RCC believe that it is through His sacrifice, not through belief in Him that people get to Heaven.

Some Protestant groups believe the other way.

Both are Christian, both believe different things. S
o, out of the three choice you gave, it's either a) or b) from my viewpoint. It' s not that it's made up, it's that there are multiple ways to take what Jesus said and not all of them are universally held.

As far as KNOWING, I don't. I believe I do, and I believe in what sits best with my conscience and my moral code. And I'm sure enough of it to bet my soul on it. But I don't absolutely KNOW.

Metherion

 

[MethodMan]

Questions by Non Christians - - Statement of Purpose​

The purpose of this forum is to help members who are seeking to become Christians, or to better understand Christianity. This forum is designed specifically for non-Christians to ask Christians, both staff and members, about Christianity, the Christian faith, Christian worship, and other questions about Christianity such as salvation, prayer life, miracles, and the gospel.

**Please remember that Christianity is about Christ and His merciful love, but that different denominations express their faith and worship of God in different ways.

1. All general CF rules apply to this forum.

2. Threads will only be started by Non Christians. Christians with questions about the faith should go to the Christians Only section, and ask in your congregation, or in the Theology section.

• These threads must have an identifiable question
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This forum is NOT for debate. Any argumentative posts will be removed or moved to the General Apologetics forum (or where ever applicable.)

4. Only the non-Christian OP may post further in the thread, ONLY if he/she is seeking clarification of a statement made by a Christian.

5. Other non Christians should really not participate in those threads which they have not generated. If they have a question, it is recommended that they open their own thread. If it's just asking for clarification/elaboration as to what someone meant in a response to the OP, PM the member that said it. Meaning, if what is said brings up a new question, please start a new thread. If it's just elaboration/clarification of what is said in the thread, please PM the member that said it.

6. Fellowship posts: A non Christian may participate in any of the three Outreach Forums with a fellowship (friendly) post as long as s/he doesn't answer the OP's question or respond to anther poster in a debative manner. Examples of fellowship posts:

Quote:
This is a very interesting discussion. I am hoping to learn more. Please continue this discussion.

Regarding debate:​

This question was previously asked: “I understand that this is not a debate forum, but what do we do if a poster gives incorrect or unbiblical advice and will not respond to a PM?”

Please follow these guidelines when this happens:

• Above all, write your message so that the OP feels safe in learning about the worship offered to the Triune Godhead in spite of the diversity found in Christianity

• Always respond to the OP and respond to WHAT they said, not WHO said it.

• Answer their questions and concerns, while ignoring any other posters, especially posts that appear to have rule violations.

• Always remember to address the points made in the OP or the previous post, while carefully avoiding the word “you.”

• Never use the phrases, “you are wrong” or “you are mistaken” or “you are in error.” These phrases are considered combative. Instead, calmly point out the truth. For example, “I believe that Christ teaches us this. . .”

• Simply share with the OP the truth as you understand it, while responding to the OP’s questions and needs.

• If you feel that a debate is ensuing, PM the other responder(s) and ask them to discuss the matter with you in PM or in a forum where debate is allowed. In this way, hopefully the OP or any other readers of the thread that may be lurking will not become confused.

 

[Key]

I saw this thread about "Do these go to hell?"

Can't post over there can I just can't honest say I serious believe the Niceaen Creed at all anymore. (But think reading a lot of the post in the "Christian" section I think there a good number of people on this forum proclaiming their Christianity without actually understanding and truly believing the many core doctrines but that's another matter.)

Anyhow, I can't post over there. But here was my thought...

"I created humankind and knowingly, in my omniciousness and omnipotence, am willing to see BILLIONS of them, in fact the vast majority of them, eternally tortured in order to have a few predestined to love me, worship me, and obey me." ~ God.
​

Think about it a moment...

Seriously. Just think about it.

Ponder this... just ponder this....

"Your parents Gave birth to you.. just so you could die...."

"You only strive to live... to survive long enough so that your body functions eventually stop working properly"

Think about that... for a while.... tell me if that makes sense to you....

If you don't like that ideal... or disagree with it.. what makes you think what you just said.. holds more merit then what I just said....

God Bless

Key.

 

[Confess]

I saw this thread about "Do these go to hell?"

Can't post over there can I just can't honest say I serious believe the Niceaen Creed at all anymore. (But think reading a lot of the post in the "Christian" section I think there a good number of people on this forum proclaiming their Christianity without actually understanding and truly believing the many core doctrines but that's another matter.)

Anyhow, I can't post over there. But here was my thought...

"I created humankind and knowingly, in my omniciousness and omnipotence, am willing to see BILLIONS of them, in fact the vast majority of them, eternally tortured in order to have a few predestined to love me, worship me, and obey me." ~ God.
​

Think about it a moment...

Seriously. Just think about it.

God gave his only son to take on your sins so that you may be able to go to heaven. What more do you want from him, he already gave you his blood.

It is not his fault that so many reject him and therebye go to hell.

How can you blame God for what man decides to do?

 

[IndyEllis]

I apologize for not better understanding the rules of this forum.

I had thought the question had already been asked in the Christian forums and that it was a really good question.

Instead, I'm going to ask another question.

 

[Bondman]

Jesus said that none go to the Father but through Him.

Now, does this mean none go to the Father but through BELIEF in Him, or that none go to the Father but through His sacrifice, or something else entirely?

The RCC believe that it is through His sacrifice, not through belief in Him that people get to Heaven.

Some Protestant groups believe the other way.

Both are Christian, both believe different things. S

o, out of the three choice you gave, it's either a) or b) from my viewpoint. It' s not that it's made up, it's that there are multiple ways to take what Jesus said and not all of them are universally held.

As far as KNOWING, I don't. I believe I do, and I believe in what sits best with my conscience and my moral code. And I'm sure enough of it to bet my soul on it. But I don't absolutely KNOW.

Metherion

I like this post. It may help IndyEllis to look at your three options you wrote: "Now, does this mean none go to the Father but through BELIEF in Him, or that none go to the Father but through His sacrifice, or something else entirely?"

I remember as a young Christian suddenly realising that my faith couldn't save me. Only my faith in Jesus could, i.e., my faith is very important but it's simply the means of 'connecting' with the One Who can save us. It's Who our faith is FOCUSSED on that's the important part.

The New Testament is clear that we can go to the Father because of, and only because of Jesus' sacrifice which we need to believe/have faith in to get it applied to our life.

And the NT also says that we can be quite certain about this.

"I created humankind and knowingly, in my omniciousness and omnipotence, am willing to see BILLIONS of them, in fact the vast majority of them, eternally tortured in order to have a few predestined to love me, worship me, and obey me." ~ God.

I understand why you wrote that and agree that it can look like that, but there's a lot more to it once you start to check out the New Testament.

For example John 3:17 says that God didn't send Jesus His only and unique Son into the world to condemn the people in the world, but rather so that they could be saved.

Now that's great news.

Then 2 Peter 3:9 says that the Lord's not slack regarding what He promises, but is really really patient with us, NOT WILLING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH, but that all should come to repentence.

And so we can be saved and go to heaven. More wonderful news!

So through Jesus everyone here can be saved if they wish this. About the billions you mentioned, I can explain this from the NT if you want.

Best wishes!

- Bondman (sharing the Good News of the Gospel)

[Moderator: first day here. If anything I'm doing wrong, please let me know, while I'm learning the ropes on this forum. Thanks a bunch.]