Things we have in common

[Dominus Fidelis]

I thought this was an interesting article.

http://www.cin.org/users/james/files/tulip.htm

It describes the many things that a Calvinist and a Catholic can agree about with regards to TULIP.

 

[CCWoody]

"Third, in recent years there has been a large number of Calvinists who have become Catholics [8]." ~ from article

Be werry werry quiet. I'm hunting Calvinists.​

I'll get to the rest of the article as I have time, but this sentence in the introduction struck me as funny. BTW, I do think that the author is overstating the case a bit, but that is neither here nor there.

 

[Wilfred of Ivanhoe]

I too have read from sources within the reformed community and my Catholic priest fencing instructor that some high level PCA members have converted.

Even if true Roman Catholic doctrine was in harmony with TULIP, there are so many other areas in which Catholisism is at variance with Reformed Theology.

 

[CCWoody]

Even if true Roman Catholic doctrine was in harmony with TULIP, there are so many other areas in which Catholisism is at variance with Reformed Theology.

Which it is not. One need look no further than the pronouncements of Trent to know that the Reformation was fought over such issues as the Eucharist. As it stands today, it is a doctrinal wall of seperation. And this is just one example.

 

[Bayhawks83]

I dont see why people would convert to being a Catholic Just because calvinism may be wrong, I would think that they would change denominations(methodist, baptist).

 

[II Paradox II]

It describes the many things that a Calvinist and a Catholic can agree about with regards to TULIP.

Or at least things that more Thomistic or Augustinian Catholics could agree upon. I would agree, however, that at least in this regard (regarding the soveriegnty of God over salvation) there is broad agreement with some sectors of Catholic theology.

It's actually quite stunning to realize how much historical continuity there really is. It wasn't until I started studying historical theology in-depth that I even realized how prevalent predestinarian views really were in the western church. Up till then, I had accepted the common mythology that predestinarian views jumped from Augustine to Gottschalk to Calvin with very little in-between. In reality, they were far more broad based and encompassed numerous theological schools from Augustine's time all the way up to the current day, often held by the best and brightest theologians of the church.

ken

 

[Filia Mariae]

I dont see why people would convert to being a Catholic Just because calvinism may be wrong, I would think that they would change denominations(methodist, baptist).

You could always try asking one of these people.

 

[rnmomof7]

"Third, in recent years there has been a large number of Calvinists who have become Catholics [8]." ~ from article

Be werry werry quiet. I'm hunting Calvinists.​

I know alot of churches put great stock in the numbers of conversions one way or the other.

But being a Calvinist it holds no interest for me.
We know that God has predestined the elect. They will come to repent and know Jesus as Lord.

The non-elect will fill church pews or temples or mosques or they will be atheists or deist . It really does not matter in the eternal scheme of things . They will not desire to repent and believe whereever they are , even if they sit in a church every Sunday .

They will always seek a god that gives them comfort and that meets the way they think God should be They will seek salvation the way they think it should be, not the way God has ordained.

God straightens it out in the end.
Sheep to one side and goats to the other .

Numbers or "conversions "mean very little.


Mat 13:29
But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.



Mat 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

 

[rnmomof7]

I dont see why people would convert to being a Catholic Just because calvinism may be wrong, I would think that they would change denominations(methodist, baptist).

A lot of people like the pomp and tradition , it gives a feeling of Holiness to them . So they seek out "High church"


My own Presbyterian church is 3/4 former Catholics .

My former Nazarene church was 95% former Catholics , (including the Pastor and his wife.)

So I take stories of "mass conversion" to any church with a grain of salt.There is movement both ways

 

[CCWoody]

I know alot of churches put great stock in the numbers of conversions one way or the other.

My kids just finished VBS at the Baptist church around the corner from my house. I know a few people who attend and my own church doesn't have a VBS so I sent the kids this week. They have a blast. Well, when I picked them up at the end of the last day, I got the pitch for us to attend on Sunday. I explained that I already have a church home (I'm even pulling the kids trailer this weekend so I couldn't visit) and then the pressure came for me to attend anyway.

You're right, it is all about the numbers in your church whether you are getting them from other churches or not. In this "seeker sensitive" purpose driven church age, it all boils down to your church growth. There may be a veneer of evangelism about it, but most of the growth is coming from "conversions" from other churches.

 

[Carrye]

A lot of people like the pomp and tradition, it gives a feeling of Holiness to them. So they seek out "High church"

Pomp and tradition? Among people in the United States? You must be joking.

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

Its sad what my attempt at bridge building turned into.

 

[tigersnare]

The non-elect will fill church pews or temples or mosques or they will be atheists or deist . It really does not matter in the eternal scheme of things . They will not desire to repent and believe whereever they are , even if they sit in a church every Sunday .

They will always seek a god that gives them comfort and that meets the way they think God should be They will seek salvation the way they think it should be, not the way God has ordained.

I couldn't agree more with these statements....If I may borrow from the Guiness commercials....BRILLIANT!

 

[tigersnare]

Its sad what my attempt at bridge building turned into.

Motives on this board will always be questioned. You dont' trust us, we dont trust you. (Us and you, in the corporate sense)

You should try seeing this through a Calvinists eyes....

By understanding Calvinism better, Catholics can help more Calvinists make the jump.

Thanks..but we already converted.

 

[Wilfred of Ivanhoe]

Its sad what my attempt at bridge building turned into.

Of all Protestant groups, I would think that we are the ones who will be least likey to form an ecumenical bond of friendship with the Catholic Church. Now, perhaps amongsts individual believers whom we know we may have such friendship, provided our beliefs concerning salvation are the same. I respect you as an individual believer for I know you to be zealous for the issues of morality that are shared by conservative Protestants and Catholics alike. I do not know where your trust for salvation be. Is it works alone, or is it faith which is shown through works?