THINGS to LOOK FOR

[thecountrydoc]

Lesson One of our new series of Sabbath Bible Lessons asks us to consider Jesus—Who was and who IS He?

His own family and fellow towns people knew not who He was (IS); they thought He was an enemy.

Recognizing His identity still splits the church almost everywhere: we’re all agreed on His divinity: He is the divine Son of the Father, the Creator of the universe, utterly sinless.

The problem: Who is Jesus as regards His incarnation?

We are generally united in seeing Him as the Descendant of Adam; but the problem is—which Adam? The sinless one before he and Eve sinned? Or is He the descendant of the fallen, sinful Adam?

The issue is not whether or not Jesus was perfectly sinless in His incarnation: we all have no misgiving regarding the perfect sinlessness of Jesus in His nature as a human in His incarnation.

The issue is: did Jesus have to contend with, and condemn sin, in His human nature? This is the struggle all of us have.

Or was Jesus “exempt” from this struggle, so that He had no battle with sin to “overcome”?

What does He mean when He says to us, “To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with Me in My throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with My Father in His throne” (Rev. 3:21)?

Romans has the answer, clear as sunlight: “God sent [sending] His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh” (8:3).

Evidently Jesus had the same battle we all have; He has come very close to us; where we have failed in letting sin overcome us, He succeeded in overcoming sin—perfectly.

But that’s not all the Good News: He will have a people who receive His faith and they will overcome also “even as [He] overcame.” Romans continues: “that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh but after the [Holy] Spirit” (8:4). They will be those translated at Jesus’ second coming (cf. Rev. 14:1-5; 1 Thess. 4:16, 17).

On the happiest page of the entire Bible (the last one), you and I are invited: “The [Holy] Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst, come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely” (Rev. 22:17).

_________________________________________________

Your brother in Christ,
Doc

 

[TrustAndObey]

You know, I have definitely been confused on this topic before.

I couldn't get my head around the fact that GOD needed to pray TO God and that GOD could die.

But DL pointed out to me that Jesus was fully man while here and had to rely on God just as much as we do.

However, after His death on the cross, and after He slept on the Sabbath day....I know that He raised Himself up (because that was His promise). He was fully God again.

It still confuses me sometimes and some verses aren't very easy to understand, but I know He is my Savior and Lord, and that He existed long before His birth on earth.

He is immortal.

 

[tnp2140]

But DL pointed out to me that Jesus was fully man while here and had to rely on God just as much as we do.

However, after His death on the cross, and after He slept on the Sabbath day....I know that He raised Himself up (because that was His promise). He was fully God again.

I'll have to disagree with that. Jesus gave up his divine-only nature at his incarnation and entrance into our world. He entered our world with the human-divine nature, and he kept that nature even after His death.

I'll have to post more later.

 

[honorthesabbath]

Thanks for the thread Doc. I too have struggled back and forth about this issue of the fallen/unfallen nature of Christ. Some texts seem to say one thing and others seem say another.

So then I try logic. I think, well, if Jesus had an unfallen nature, he would have no idea what it is like to fight the inkling to sin. He could in no way be our sympathetic high priest.

Then he said that He had to 'learn' obedience. I would think that that wouldn't be necessary for an unfallen nature.

 

[TrustAndObey]

In the past, when I've been debating the state of the dead, the fact that Jesus wept for Lazarus always gets brought up...

People say "He wept because He felt our pain and knows exactly what it's like for us here on earth" and in my heart I kept thinking "How could He really? He was tempted but couldn't fail....etc".

I really, in my own heart, feel that He was just as reliant on God as we are right now. That His power came from the Father and ours could too.

I'm glad Doc started this thread as well. It's one of those nagging subjects always in the back of my head.

 

[thecountrydoc]

Thank you for the interest that you've already displayed in this quarter's SS Lessons. It is my hope that this post, and others to follow, will not only stimulate everyone's thinking about the SS Lessons, but to also encourage everyone to study the lessons to find the answers to your questions.

Since we are going to spend the entire quarter on this topic I'll not make any attempt give a complete answer here for the points that you have raised. I will however give you something to think about. I ask you to please forgive me if I paraphrase my comments.

Prior to the Creation of this earth Satan accused God of being unfair by requiring His created beings (Satan and the angles) to live up to God's standards. Satan must be a very good politician because he convinced a third of "a numberless host," that he, Satan, was right and God was wrong. His charge? No one but God Himself could live up to those standards.

When God created man in His very image, complete with a mind to communicate with his Creator, Satan cast another doubt as to the true charector and nature of God and God's standards of obedience in the minds of every unfallen being in the universe. In essence Satan challenged God to let him tempt man, the epitomy of God's creation, and he, Satan, would show the universe that even man could not live up to God's standards.

At that point God could have said no. But the doubt would have still been there in the minds of the unfallen beings. The only way to prove Satan wrong, before the entire universe, was to show that a created, mortal, human being could indeed live up to God's standards. Today we know that that mortal human being was Jesus Christ.

Now comes into play part of "the mystery of Godlyness." How was it possible for a mortal human being to live on this earth for thirty and a half years without sinning and live up to God's own standards. Satan's charge had been that it was impossible to live a life of prefection without being Divine yet that is exactly what Jesus Christ did.

When Jesus Christ was born He entered this world just like every baby enters this world. Without a knowledge of sin nor had He ever sinned. He also had absolutely no advantage over any human being ever to be born on this earth. He was 100% human. He even had to be taught the Scriptures by His mother Mary. With the teaching of the Scriptures He had to learn all about faith and how to use it. It was with the use of a that faith that Jesus Christ was able to lead that perfect life. He demonstraited a complete and total faith in God the Father. If Jesus Christ had even once used any part of His divinity to overcome sin Satan would have been able to say to the rest of the universe; See, I told you so.

Jesus Christ was born as a mortal just like you and me. He lived a sinless life just as we could if we were to have that same total faith in God the Father. We are told that if we had faith even the smallest amount of faith, "as a mustered seed," we could move mountains and preform thye kind of vmiricales that Jesus did. When He died on the cross the entire universe was able to see the torture He endured and that Satan hated God so much that he would take the very life of the of God's own Son. With that realization the rest of the universe acknowledged that God was right and that Satan was wrong. Sin, Satan, and all of those who chose to follow him must be eradicated. God's charecter had been vindicated. From that time onward, until Christ's return, we might call "God's last alter call."

Respectfully, your brother in Christ,
Doc

 

[thecountrydoc]

Who Was Jesus? | April 5, 2008

Scripture: Matthew 16:13-16; John 20:26-28, 1 Corinthians 1: 18-27, 15:3-7.

Do you have a Kindle yet? Have you seen someone else’s? Maybe you’ve been on a subway train, on an airplane or in a waiting room and noticed someone adjacent to you reading from one.

The Amazon Kindle is a hand-held wireless device with an electronic paper display that allows you to read a book, magazine, newspaper or blog any time, any where. No cords are required. Content is delivered over Amazon’s wireless delivery system, Whispernet for free. The Kindle operates on a long-life rechargeable battery.
1]

According to the Amazon Kindle Store there are currently over 110,000 titles available for purchase. The first chapter of each book is offered as a free sample.
Order an e-book from the Kindle store and receive it on your reader in 1 minute.

New York Times bestsellers and new releases are offered for approximately $10. Classics sell for around $1.99. Subscriptions to newspapers cost between $5.99 and $14.99 per month, magazines between $1.25 and $3.49 per month, and blogs for $0.99-$1.99 per month. Access to Wikipedia is offered at no additional charge. 2]

If you log on to Amazon.com on your PC and put the word Jesus in the search engine there are 260,411 results. Authors have various opinions of who Jesus was or is today. Some ignore Jesus' existence. Others applaud Jesus' role in history. Others combine words Jesus spoke with the words of other great “prophets.” One of the most popular reads right now combines Sufi and Zen anecdotes and New Testament quotes to illustrate a point.

If you were asked to prove who Jesus was from a contemporary text published in the last three years, what book would you choose to retrieve? What criteria would you use for selecting the perfect title from the Amazon Kindle store to order for your reader?

This week we begin a series of new lessons entitled “The Wonder of Jesus.” Author Roy Adams gives us the criteria he used in writing his commentary.

In the introduction of the companion book that has the same title as our Bible Study Guide, Adams tells us that he wanted to simply allow the Gospels (and the Bible as a whole) to talk to him afresh. He invites readers to do the same.

For the next 13 weeks he leads our discussions from the position that he would not rely on the millions of books on the topic of Jesus already in existence. Rather he offers us room simply “to listen to the text for ourselves, without the excessive baggage of what everyone else has written, however brilliant.” 3]

This week we explore what the Bible says about who Jesus was and what Jesus is to us today. We contemplate why Jesus was confused with other prominent Jewish characters. We look at the challenges to Jesus’ integrity and identity in the centuries following the New Testament era and how convinced the Bible writers were of Jesus' identity, and why? 4]

If you are one of the fortunate ones to already own a Kindle, you can purchase the New International Version of the Bible at the Kindle price of $9.99, or the New American Standard version of the Bible for $6.99 or, if you prefer, the King James Version for 80 cents. The entire Bible will be auto-delivered wirelessly to your Kindle in 1 minute.


1.] See video of the Amazon Kindle.
2.] Browse the Kindle Store.
3.] Adams, Roy. The Wonder of Jesus: He still Touches Hearts. (Hagerstown, Md: Review and Herald Publishing Association, 2007), pp 7,8.
4.] Adult Bible Study Guide, “The Wonder of Jesus”, p. 5.
________________________________________________

Your brother in Chrit,
Doc

 

[TrustAndObey]

A verse that always stood out to me is this one:

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Jesus had faith. If He were God here on this earth, He wouldn't have to have faith, He'd just know.

There would be no possibility of Him sinning and He WOULD have an advantage over us and not know what it's like to have the natures that we do.

He was given the title of Judge because He does know what it's like. He relied on God, and that's proof positive that we should too.

 

[TrustAndObey]

Another part of scripture that has always stuck out for me was when Jesus asked that the "cup" be taken from Him.

He was afraid. Even though He knew that it was part of plan, He was not, at least at that moment, ready to do it.

He knew that it would be the Father's will and consented, but He did ask if there was any way to avoid what was about to happen.

 

[TrustAndObey]

I know it's not a popular opinion to say that Jesus could have sinned while here, but any other explanation seems unfair to me.

It would be an advantage that we just do not have if He was incapable of sinning.

The rejoicing comes in knowing (in my heart anyway) that He could have, but He DIDN'T! Praise the Lord He was a perfect Man...but He died for us anyway.

 

[TrustAndObey]

I'll have to disagree with that. Jesus gave up his divine-only nature at his incarnation and entrance into our world. He entered our world with the human-divine nature, and he kept that nature even after His death.

I'll have to post more later.

It's okay to disagree with me TNP, I don't bite, I promise! In fact, this is something that I've wanted to discuss for a very long time, and this is the perfect place to do it.

Honor, can you get me a quarterly?

I'm just thinking out loud here so bear with me.....

Okay, let's say He was HALF human and HALF Divine while here...isn't that still an advantage over us, and wouldn't the human part of Him still be able to sin, but the Divine part of Him wouldn't allow it?

That's an advantage. No matter how you slice it, it's an advantage over us and I feel that would be placing an undue amount of pressure on us to do something we cannot do. I know our Lord wouldn't do that.

In John 5 Jesus says: I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

And remember when Jesus couldn't understand why people were calling Him good and He said "there is none good, but one, that is, God."

He fasted His very human body while being tempted and He prayed. He drew upon strength from God and the angels, not from Himself.

Satan is evil, but he's not stupid. He was in heaven and KNOWS that Jesus was there when he (satan) was, and that Jesus is immortal and Divine....yet satan tried to ruin the plan of salvation. Why?

If he knew he didn't have a shot at it, why even try?

I know there's a verse in scripture about satan being the prince of THIS world, and this is where Jesus was...this world. Satan has to be cast out.

Why did Jesus have to be born of a woman at all? Why couldn't He just appear here on earth?

Why did Jesus go into the synagogue to read? He wrote the scriptures in His Divinity, but I agree with Doc, He had to learn them while here just like we do. I firmly believe He gave up Divinity to save us.

I think He was VERY human while here but gathered all strength from the Father.

Here's a for instance....in the book of Matthew we're told that we should be able to heal, raise up the dead, and cast out devils.

Paul did those things and we know Paul wasn't Divine.

A lot of people I've talked to have said "well, an evil generation seeks after a sign and we can't do those things anymore". I think the verse about seeking after a sign is more in regards to "prove there's a God" NOT about the people that already KNOW there's One.

If it takes a miracle for them to believe the things they cannot see, then that isn't faith. Jesus had faith. But those of us WITH faith should be able to do miracles.

I really do think we should....the faith the size of a mustard seed should be able to move mountains!

I know that the sins I hold unto in my life are the ones I really don't want to let go of. I also know that if I earnestly prayed about God taking them from me, that they'd be gone without any effort on my part whatsoever.

I DON'T pray without ceasing and I DO question my faith sometimes because of injustices in the world....and if I'd just let completely go and give everything to Him, I could do many miraculous things in His name.

I know that. I'm completely convinced of that.

I also know I don't confess all my sins. I make rationalizations and justifications to hold on to things I should despise.

I know absolutely and 100% that I have not fully given my life to God. A lot of the reasons why (this may sound funny, but I don't really intend it that way), is because every time I have said "do with me what you will"....the aftermath was very painful.

The things I would prefer that He use me for are not the things HE preferred to use me for or refine me through. It was painful.

And just when you don't think things can get any worse........

I'm being humbled all the time, and that is painful as well. I KNOW I have to give up entirely, and I just haven't done that yet. I struggle with self all the time.

But I know we all do....and I'm not seeing these miracles coming from anybody.

If we had the faith that Jesus did, this would be a very different world right now.

Look at all the words Jesus spoke and there's the same reoccuring message...I am not the One that is good...it is He who sent Me!

 

[TrustAndObey]

Oh...and about the resurrection...

Jesus said He would rise up on the third day, and as we all know, that's exactly what happened.

But gather all the verses about it. The Holy Spirit raised Him up...God raised Him up....Jesus raised Himself up. The Godhead raised Him up!

He was quickened by the Spirit. Just like we will be!

I believe He really DID die. I believe He was the firstfruits of them that SLEPT and that He DID sleep the sleep of death.

The verses about Him preaching to the spirits in prison....read them closely. I believe that refers to Noah's day, not Christ's. It was while He was YET with us.

I believe He slept. Otherwise He couldn't be the firstfruits of them that slept.

 

[TrustAndObey]

And, in a nutshell, God cannot die.

God is immortal and He alone has immortality.

Jesus gave up immortality to come here. I believe that with all of my heart, and I believe that He could've turned away and lost faith just like the rest of us, but He didn't!

 

[TrustAndObey]

Someone just anonymously blessed me with 1,000 blessings. I must've said something that SOMEBODY agrees with, eh?

 

[TrustAndObey]

BTW, thank you to whoever! That was very sweet.

 

[TrustAndObey]

BUMP...somebody say something!!!!

I want to know if I'm way off here!

 

[tnp2140]

BUMP...somebody say something!!!!

I want to know if I'm way off here!

That was a great post T&O! Sounded like it came from the heart


I'm gonna try to find some more time tomorrow and make a reply about Christ's nature.

 

[TrustAndObey]

That was a great post T&O! Sounded like it came from the heart

Thanks, it did!

I'm gonna try to find some more time tomorrow and make a reply about Christ's nature.

Looking forward to it!