"Things to know and share" about Pope Francis in the news

[LivingWordUnity]

All of these articles are by orthodox (or "conservative") Catholics attempting to defend Pope Francis in response to news controversies. This is my attempt to gather it together here. I got most of it from Dave Armstrong's list. I think that Pope Francis has good intentions but that his frequent lack of clarity (perhaps the language barrier has something to do with it), especially in off-the-cuff remarks in interview situations, is easy for the media to exploit for their own agenda. I'm one of the ones who has defended Pope Francis many times, but I've come to be unsure of him. I might also post it in Salt of the Earth.

Jun 28, 2016 Pope Francis on Apologizing to Gays (And More): 6 things to know and share

May 13, 2016 Pope Francis’s Commission on Women Deacons: 12 Things to Know and Share

Apr 7, 2016 Pope Francis's New Document on Marriage: 12 Things to Know and Share

Feb 19, 2016 Pope Francis Speaks on Hot-Button Issues: 9 Things to Know and Share

Sep 8, 2015 Pope Francis Reforms Annulment Process: 9 things to know and share

Sep 1, 2015 Holy Year Gestures on Abortion and the SSPX: 12 Things to Know and Share

Aug 6, 2015 Pope Francis on the Divorced and Remarried: 10 things to know and share

Jun 18, 2015 Pope Francis’s Environmental Encyclical: 13 Things to Know and Share

Feb 19, 2015 VIP treatment for LGBT group at the Vatican? Not really

Jan 27, 2015 When Pope Francis rips ‘proselytism,’ who’s he talking about?

Jan 24, 2015 Pope Francis surprised by misunderstanding of his words on family

Jan 22, 2015 Pope Francis: Orthodox & Pro-Tradition

Jan 21, 2015 Pope Francis and Bad Translators

Jan 20, 2015 Pope Francis and Catholic Rabbits–5 Points to Consider

Dec 1, 2014 The Pope’s True Agenda

May 9, 2014 Totally Missing the Pope Francis Story, Yet Again

Apr 23, 2014 Did Pope Francis tell a divorced and civilly remarried woman she could receive Holy Communion?

Mar 13, 2014 Pope Francis’s First Year

Mar 13, 2014 The Media’s Fictional Francis

Mar 9, 2014 Did Pope Francis just diss apologists? 9 things to know and share

Feb 25, 2014 Vatican’s Cardinal Burke: Media is ‘mocking’ the Pope by creating a liberal caricature

Feb 14, 2014 Judge Not

Jan 4, 2014 What did Pope Francis say about the children of homosexual couples? 8 things to know and share

Jan 2, 2014 Dialogue: Has Pope Francis Changed the Constant Catholic Prohibition of Contraception?

Jan 2, 2014 Don’t fall for this Pope Francis hoax: 5 things to know and share

Jan 1, 2014 Pope Francis on the “parable” of the loaves and fishes: 11 things to know and share

Dec 15, 2013 Pope Francis takes on allegations and rumors about his papacy: 9 things to know and share

Dec 9, 2013 The Controversy Over Evangelii Gaudium

Nov 26, 2013 Here We Go Again or "Lousy English Translations, Pt. CCXVIII"

Nov 21, 2013 Pope's words in interview may not have been his own, Scalfari says

Nov 19, 2013 Papal Style: Caring for Souls while Leaving Doctrinal Exposition to Others

Nov 7, 2013 Why the media keep getting Pope Francis all wrong

Oct 22, 2013 Is Pope Francis going to let the divorced and remarried receive Communion?

Oct 11, 2013 Pope Francis’s new letter to homosexual Catholics (9 things to know and share)

Oct 5, 2013 Vatican: Scalfari Interview Misses Details, Conflates Facts

Oct 3, 2013 The Pope’s Pro-Life Declaration “in Context”

Oct 2, 2013 Is Pope Francis about to “rip up” the Vatican constitution? 12 things to know and share

Oct 1, 2013 The Pope, Abortion, Mercy and Context

Oct 1, 2013 Did Pope Francis just say that evangelization is “nonsense”? 8 things to know and share

Sep 23, 2013 Pope Francis Has Not Diluted the Pro-Life Teachings of the Catholic Church

Sep 15, 2013 Did Pope Francis say atheists don’t need to believe in God to be saved? (9 things to know)

Sep 12, 2013 Is Pope Francis about to eliminate celibacy? (9 things to know and share)

Aug 30, 2013 What should we make of Pope Francis bowing when greeting people?

Aug 5, 2013 What Did the Pope Really Say about Gays in the Priesthood?

Jul 30, 2013 Misinterpreting Francis

Jul 29, 2013 7 things you need to know about what Pope Francis said about gays

Jun 12, 2013 Pope Francis and the Vatican "gay lobby"—10 things to know and share

May 24, 2013 Did Pope Francis Say That Atheists Can Get to Heaven by Good Works?

May 23, 2013 Did Pope Francis Preach Salvation by Works??

Mar 28, 2013 Foot Washing Controversy - "A Muslim Girl?"

Mar 20, 2013 Pope Francis on Homosexual Unions

 

[Davidnic]

I think the language barrier does have something to do with it in off the cuff situations. He has a few languages under his belt. But when you look at the root words at times and how we use them in English, I think words like "offense" that we use in a PC culture for a stubbed toe is used by him as to damage or wound. Which is usually the way it is theologically used. So things like that...which is not even his ability to cross the language barrier but rather the colloquial use in the west.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

I think the language barrier does have something to do with it in off the cuff situations. He has a few languages under his belt. But when you look at the root words at times and how we use them in English, I think words like "offense" that we use in a PC culture for a stubbed toe is used by him as to damage or wound. Which is usually the way it is theologically used. So things like that...which is not even his ability to cross the language barrier but rather the colloquial use in the west.

One of the articles says that the encyclical Evangelii Gaudium was not correctly translated into English.

See:
Here We Go Again or "Lousy English Translations, Pt. CCXVIII"

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?

 

[chevyontheriver]

Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?

I'm taking a break from trying to figure out how to defend pope Francis from what he says. For now I am working hard on understanding the limits to infallibility that I did not have to explore much at all with JPII and BXVI. I guess that's a healthy thing because as we all knew, not every word a pope says is infallible. Maybe by the time I get that all figured out Cardinal Sarah will be our new pope.

 

[WarriorAngel]

All of these articles are by orthodox (or "conservative") Catholics attempting to defend Pope Francis in response to news controversies. This is my attempt to gather it together here. I got most of it from Dave Armstrong's list. I think that Pope Francis has good intentions but that his frequent lack of clarity (perhaps the language barrier has something to do with it), especially in off-the-cuff remarks in interview situations, is easy for the media to exploit for their own agenda. I'm one of the ones who has defended Pope Francis many times, but I've come to be unsure of him. I might also post it in Salt of the Earth.

Jun 28, 2016 Pope Francis on Apologizing to Gays (And More): 6 things to know and share

May 13, 2016 Pope Francis’s Commission on Women Deacons: 12 Things to Know and Share

Apr 7, 2016 Pope Francis's New Document on Marriage: 12 Things to Know and Share

Feb 19, 2016 Pope Francis Speaks on Hot-Button Issues: 9 Things to Know and Share

Sep 8, 2015 Pope Francis Reforms Annulment Process: 9 things to know and share

Sep 1, 2015 Holy Year Gestures on Abortion and the SSPX: 12 Things to Know and Share

Aug 6, 2015 Pope Francis on the Divorced and Remarried: 10 things to know and share

Jun 18, 2015 Pope Francis’s Environmental Encyclical: 13 Things to Know and Share

Feb 19, 2015 VIP treatment for LGBT group at the Vatican? Not really

Jan 27, 2015 When Pope Francis rips ‘proselytism,’ who’s he talking about?

Jan 24, 2015 Pope Francis surprised by misunderstanding of his words on family

Jan 22, 2015 Pope Francis: Orthodox & Pro-Tradition

Jan 21, 2015 Pope Francis and Bad Translators

Jan 20, 2015 Pope Francis and Catholic Rabbits–5 Points to Consider

Dec 1, 2014 The Pope’s True Agenda

May 9, 2014 Totally Missing the Pope Francis Story, Yet Again

Apr 23, 2014 Did Pope Francis tell a divorced and civilly remarried woman she could receive Holy Communion?

Mar 13, 2014 Pope Francis’s First Year

Mar 13, 2014 The Media’s Fictional Francis

Mar 9, 2014 Did Pope Francis just diss apologists? 9 things to know and share

Feb 25, 2014 Vatican’s Cardinal Burke: Media is ‘mocking’ the Pope by creating a liberal caricature

Feb 14, 2014 Judge Not

Jan 4, 2014 What did Pope Francis say about the children of homosexual couples? 8 things to know and share

Jan 2, 2014 Dialogue: Has Pope Francis Changed the Constant Catholic Prohibition of Contraception?

Jan 2, 2014 Don’t fall for this Pope Francis hoax: 5 things to know and share

Jan 1, 2014 Pope Francis on the “parable” of the loaves and fishes: 11 things to know and share

Dec 15, 2013 Pope Francis takes on allegations and rumors about his papacy: 9 things to know and share

Dec 9, 2013 The Controversy Over Evangelii Gaudium

Nov 26, 2013 Here We Go Again or "Lousy English Translations, Pt. CCXVIII"

Nov 21, 2013 Pope's words in interview may not have been his own, Scalfari says

Nov 19, 2013 Papal Style: Caring for Souls while Leaving Doctrinal Exposition to Others

Nov 7, 2013 Why the media keep getting Pope Francis all wrong

Oct 22, 2013 Is Pope Francis going to let the divorced and remarried receive Communion?

Oct 11, 2013 Pope Francis’s new letter to homosexual Catholics (9 things to know and share)

Oct 5, 2013 Vatican: Scalfari Interview Misses Details, Conflates Facts

Oct 3, 2013 The Pope’s Pro-Life Declaration “in Context”

Oct 2, 2013 Is Pope Francis about to “rip up” the Vatican constitution? 12 things to know and share

Oct 1, 2013 The Pope, Abortion, Mercy and Context

Oct 1, 2013 Did Pope Francis just say that evangelization is “nonsense”? 8 things to know and share

Sep 23, 2013 Pope Francis Has Not Diluted the Pro-Life Teachings of the Catholic Church

Sep 15, 2013 Did Pope Francis say atheists don’t need to believe in God to be saved? (9 things to know)

Sep 12, 2013 Is Pope Francis about to eliminate celibacy? (9 things to know and share)

Aug 30, 2013 What should we make of Pope Francis bowing when greeting people?

Aug 5, 2013 What Did the Pope Really Say about Gays in the Priesthood?

Jul 30, 2013 Misinterpreting Francis

Jul 29, 2013 7 things you need to know about what Pope Francis said about gays

Jun 12, 2013 Pope Francis and the Vatican "gay lobby"—10 things to know and share

May 24, 2013 Did Pope Francis Say That Atheists Can Get to Heaven by Good Works?

May 23, 2013 Did Pope Francis Preach Salvation by Works??

Mar 28, 2013 Foot Washing Controversy - "A Muslim Girl?"

Mar 20, 2013 Pope Francis on Homosexual Unions

It's the media - and their 'i heard this - but shut out the rest...'
And its trying to convert one Roman type language into another.
Verbs and words are similar but sometimes differ in deeper meaning.

So heck, that would be confusing enough to try to get it right.
I was taught Spanish for 5 years in school - however; trying to speak to a Mexican was hard because they dont use the proper forms of the verbs etc.
So its like translating olde english to todays slang...and that's just in one singular language.

Anytime i speak to a Mexican at work i try to think of the verb usage they have thrown out.

Back when i learned Spanish it was - trabajo.
I work...
Now it's yo trabajar because the verb 'work' does no longer carry the 'amos, o, as, os' ... etc per person or group you are referring to.
So for me to say 'trabajamos' we work, its now trabajar ...no distinctions except the first word.

So i have to stop and remember this new way of speaking when speaking.
When they hear me, if i forget, they laugh, though they understand sort of.

So - i imagine the Pope probably has a hard time of it.
Meanings change - so even if he did learn Italian many years ago - in formal and old context, he may not using todays versions. So it changes so i can see how this messes things up.

 

[WarriorAngel]

In fact Spanish has to be rewired for me.
Amos was easy - at the end of a verb meaning 'we' i dont know the new word for 'we' put prior to the verbs.

When my daughter took Spanish in class - she had to throw it out to speak to the Mexicans we worked with.
I had to think hard. I cannot recall the 'prior' usage they now use to mean 'we'.

Its a language barrier.

NOT to mention HOW they now speak.

Its no longer 'sombrero 'de' roja'
Its roja sombrero.
Red hat... in the old way it was hat of red. Now the 'of' or 'de' was tossed.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

I'm taking a break from trying to figure out how to defend pope Francis from what he says. For now I am working hard on understanding the limits to infallibility that I did not have to explore much at all with JPII and BXVI. I guess that's a healthy thing because as we all knew, not every word a pope says is infallible. Maybe by the time I get that all figured out Cardinal Sarah will be our new pope.

Since part of the problem is the language barrier, if we have a next Pope I think we need one that is fluent in English since that's the most dominate language of our age and is the language of the Western media. Cardinal Sarah seems holy and orthodox, and he is said to be fluent in English as well as in French and Italian.

 

[s_gunter]

In fact Spanish has to be rewired for me.
Amos was easy - at the end of a verb meaning 'we' i dont know the new word for 'we' put prior to the verbs.

When my daughter took Spanish in class - she had to throw it out to speak to the Mexicans we worked with.
I had to think hard. I cannot recall the 'prior' usage they now use to mean 'we'.

Its a language barrier.

NOT to mention HOW they now speak.

Its no longer 'sombrero 'de' roja'
Its roja sombrero.
Red hat... in the old way it was hat of red. Now the 'of' or 'de' was tossed.

Different Spanish dialects maybe? I know in high school, I was taught "Spain Spanish," so to speak. But then, use that same Spanish with those around me at the time (born and raised in Texas, so obviously Mexican dialect), they'd correct the textbook every time, it seemed. I've also noticed the same thing with Puerto Ricans and Mexicans. They misunderstand each other a lot too, for the same reason.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Different Spanish dialects maybe? I know in high school, I was taught "Spain Spanish," so to speak. But then, use that same Spanish with those around me at the time (born and raised in Texas, so obviously Mexican dialect), they'd correct the textbook every time, it seemed. I've also noticed the same thing with Puerto Ricans and Mexicans. They misunderstand each other a lot too, for the same reason.

Yep dialects change context.
I was told by a Mexican pal where i worked that the way i spoke was old. Like Olde English - many years ago.
And also - there were a variety of Spanish type dialects working there.
And they too understood the differences and had to rework their speaking... and it was understood the understandings could vary. So sometimes they had to ask what they meant.

This is likely why the Pope - and his own Spanish dialect has to consider who is hearing him, what it means, whats the differences?
And if he doesnt know - he will probably be saying something different than what he intends.

Sad to say - no matter how the Vatican tries to tell ppl he has a problem doing this - they still hit him for what he intends vs what he says.

 

[s_gunter]

Yep dialects change context.
I was told by a Mexican pal where i worked that the way i spoke was old. Like Olde English - many years ago.
And also - there were a variety of Spanish type dialects working there.
And they too understood the differences and had to rework their speaking... and it was understood the understandings could vary. So sometimes they had to ask what they meant.

This is likely why the Pope - and his own Spanish dialect has to consider who is hearing him, what it means, whats the differences?
And if he doesnt know - he will probably be saying something different than what he intends.

Sad to say - no matter how the Vatican tries to tell ppl he has a problem doing this - they still hit him for what he intends vs what he says.

I'm being a tad cheeky here: Doesn't Pope Francis speak a few languages? Maybe one of them is English? Maybe he could use English when making his off the cuff remarks? (Yeah, I know. That's convenient to me, since I speak English...)

 

[chevyontheriver]

I'm being a tad cheeky here: Doesn't Pope Francis speak a few languages? Maybe one of them is English? Maybe he could use English when making his off the cuff remarks? (Yeah, I know. That's convenient to me, since I speak English...)

How about Latin? And I'm nine tenths serious here. He would have to really think about what he says and they would really have to study it hard to figure out what he said. It IS still an official language of the Church and has the added advantage that it is not a rapidly evolving language.

 

[s_gunter]

How about Latin? And I'm nine tenths serious here. He would have to really think about what he says and they would really have to study it hard to figure out what he said. It IS still an official language of the Church and has the added advantage that it is not a rapidly evolving language.

Great point. I did say English because, other than it being personally convenient, it would fit more with Pope Francis. After all, he is a Jesuit, so he tends to the more modern side of things. English is the new universal language. Since English isn't his first language, he'd still have to really think about what he says. However, you're right about the others, namely the mainstream media, would have to put in some work to figure out what he said. I'm all for the media having to do some actual work and some actual thinking before shooting off their mouths....

 

[LivingWordUnity]

I'm being a tad cheeky here: Doesn't Pope Francis speak a few languages? Maybe one of them is English? Maybe he could use English when making his off the cuff remarks? (Yeah, I know. That's convenient to me, since I speak English...)

His English is very rough.

 

[chevyontheriver]

His English is very rough.

"Off the cuff" is the entire problem. He should have to think before talking. In whatever language. Some of the rest of us have enforced that discipline upon ourselves.

 

[Michie]

As in the anticatholic Dave Armstrong??

All of these articles are by orthodox (or "conservative") Catholics attempting to defend Pope Francis in response to news controversies. This is my attempt to gather it together here. I got most of it from Dave Armstrong's list. I think that Pope Francis has good intentions but that his frequent lack of clarity (perhaps the language barrier has something to do with it), especially in off-the-cuff remarks in interview situations, is easy for the media to exploit for their own agenda. I'm one of the ones who has defended Pope Francis many times, but I've come to be unsure of him. I might also post it in Salt of the Earth.

Jun 28, 2016 Pope Francis on Apologizing to Gays (And More): 6 things to know and share

May 13, 2016 Pope Francis’s Commission on Women Deacons: 12 Things to Know and Share

Apr 7, 2016 Pope Francis's New Document on Marriage: 12 Things to Know and Share

Feb 19, 2016 Pope Francis Speaks on Hot-Button Issues: 9 Things to Know and Share

Sep 8, 2015 Pope Francis Reforms Annulment Process: 9 things to know and share

Sep 1, 2015 Holy Year Gestures on Abortion and the SSPX: 12 Things to Know and Share

Aug 6, 2015 Pope Francis on the Divorced and Remarried: 10 things to know and share

Jun 18, 2015 Pope Francis’s Environmental Encyclical: 13 Things to Know and Share

Feb 19, 2015 VIP treatment for LGBT group at the Vatican? Not really

Jan 27, 2015 When Pope Francis rips ‘proselytism,’ who’s he talking about?

Jan 24, 2015 Pope Francis surprised by misunderstanding of his words on family

Jan 22, 2015 Pope Francis: Orthodox & Pro-Tradition

Jan 21, 2015 Pope Francis and Bad Translators

Jan 20, 2015 Pope Francis and Catholic Rabbits–5 Points to Consider

Dec 1, 2014 The Pope’s True Agenda

May 9, 2014 Totally Missing the Pope Francis Story, Yet Again

Apr 23, 2014 Did Pope Francis tell a divorced and civilly remarried woman she could receive Holy Communion?

Mar 13, 2014 Pope Francis’s First Year

Mar 13, 2014 The Media’s Fictional Francis

Mar 9, 2014 Did Pope Francis just diss apologists? 9 things to know and share

Feb 25, 2014 Vatican’s Cardinal Burke: Media is ‘mocking’ the Pope by creating a liberal caricature

Feb 14, 2014 Judge Not

Jan 4, 2014 What did Pope Francis say about the children of homosexual couples? 8 things to know and share

Jan 2, 2014 Dialogue: Has Pope Francis Changed the Constant Catholic Prohibition of Contraception?

Jan 2, 2014 Don’t fall for this Pope Francis hoax: 5 things to know and share

Jan 1, 2014 Pope Francis on the “parable” of the loaves and fishes: 11 things to know and share

Dec 15, 2013 Pope Francis takes on allegations and rumors about his papacy: 9 things to know and share

Dec 9, 2013 The Controversy Over Evangelii Gaudium

Nov 26, 2013 Here We Go Again or "Lousy English Translations, Pt. CCXVIII"

Nov 21, 2013 Pope's words in interview may not have been his own, Scalfari says

Nov 19, 2013 Papal Style: Caring for Souls while Leaving Doctrinal Exposition to Others

Nov 7, 2013 Why the media keep getting Pope Francis all wrong

Oct 22, 2013 Is Pope Francis going to let the divorced and remarried receive Communion?

Oct 11, 2013 Pope Francis’s new letter to homosexual Catholics (9 things to know and share)

Oct 5, 2013 Vatican: Scalfari Interview Misses Details, Conflates Facts

Oct 3, 2013 The Pope’s Pro-Life Declaration “in Context”

Oct 2, 2013 Is Pope Francis about to “rip up” the Vatican constitution? 12 things to know and share

Oct 1, 2013 The Pope, Abortion, Mercy and Context

Oct 1, 2013 Did Pope Francis just say that evangelization is “nonsense”? 8 things to know and share

Sep 23, 2013 Pope Francis Has Not Diluted the Pro-Life Teachings of the Catholic Church

Sep 15, 2013 Did Pope Francis say atheists don’t need to believe in God to be saved? (9 things to know)

Sep 12, 2013 Is Pope Francis about to eliminate celibacy? (9 things to know and share)

Aug 30, 2013 What should we make of Pope Francis bowing when greeting people?

Aug 5, 2013 What Did the Pope Really Say about Gays in the Priesthood?

Jul 30, 2013 Misinterpreting Francis

Jul 29, 2013 7 things you need to know about what Pope Francis said about gays

Jun 12, 2013 Pope Francis and the Vatican "gay lobby"—10 things to know and share

May 24, 2013 Did Pope Francis Say That Atheists Can Get to Heaven by Good Works?

May 23, 2013 Did Pope Francis Preach Salvation by Works??

Mar 28, 2013 Foot Washing Controversy - "A Muslim Girl?"

Mar 20, 2013 Pope Francis on Homosexual Unions

 

[MoonlessNight]

All I know is that I don't envy Jimmy Akin.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

As in the anticatholic Dave Armstrong??

As in the Catholic apologist Dave Armstrong.

 

[Michie]

Does not ring a bell. I know there is an anticatholic Armstrong too.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Does not ring a bell. I know there is an anticatholic Armstrong too.

I only know about the Catholic one.