Things like the Darwin Awards

[Meshavrischika]

Actions presented in places like the Darwin Awards begs me to ask a question:

At what point is someone self destructive lack of consideration for themselves something we just let them go with in order to not propagate that kind of person in society (i.e. survival of the smartest if not the fittest)?

Sure, we should help our fellow man, but do we really think it will do much good in the case of a person who would strap a jet engine to a car and expect to be able to drive it? Even if we thwarted that attempt at stupidity, surely we can't prevent EVERY act of stupidity...

 

[wanderingone]

I don't think we allow people bent on self destruction to carry on because of some belief that we eliminate the worst and dumbest from the human chain.

I do think when acts of stupidity are exposed you go ahead and point out... "Hey plastic bags are not toys" I think when someone intends to strap that jet engine to a car you say "I don't think you should do that" and "No, I'm not going to help you do that"

But no... you can't stop every act, but you can do some preventive thinking and take some preventive actions.

 

[cantata]

Actions presented in places like the Darwin Awards begs me to ask a question:

At what point is someone self destructive lack of consideration for themselves something we just let them go with in order to not propagate that kind of person in society (i.e. survival of the smartest if not the fittest)?

Sure, we should help our fellow man, but do we really think it will do much good in the case of a person who would strap a jet engine to a car and expect to be able to drive it? Even if we thwarted that attempt at stupidity, surely we can't prevent EVERY act of stupidity...

Well firstly, the thing about the jet engine and the car is a myth. A basic knowledge of physics will tell you that there are all sorts of things wrong with the story. It's possible that it's based on the true story of a group of boys who actually had two successful runs in a modified train carriage with some solid fuel canisters.

But anyway, no, we shouldn't just let stupid people kill themselves. That's a vile attitude to have. Less intelligent people are still perfectly capable of suffering and we should do our best to prevent that suffering as much as we would with any other person.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Sure, we should help our fellow man, but do we really think it will do much good in the case of a person who would strap a jet engine to a car and expect to be able to drive it? Even if we thwarted that attempt at stupidity, surely we can't prevent EVERY act of stupidity...

I don't think that we should necessarily prevent intentionally dangerous acts that we judge foolish or stupid (when done by mentally competent people), though not on darwinistic grounds, but on the grounds that people's lives are their own.

Please distinguish this from helping people who are mentally challenged, which I think is perfectly okay.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Meshavrischika]

oh sure. I make the distinction between people who are capable of making good decisions and those who just flat cannot due to disability.

My main point I think is why do we keep pursuing protecting people from themselves when obviously they will continue to do hurtful things continually.

(the rocket thing was an example from the movie... not something I took as reality)

 

[cantata]

My main point I think is why do we keep pursuing protecting people from themselves when obviously they will continue to do hurtful things continually.

Do we do that, though?

 

[Meshavrischika]

Do we do that, though?

yes.

example: look at all the stupid laws that have been passed... things that apply only to a few, not so discerning people

 

[stan1980]

No, we shouldn't stop people from doing stupid things (unless they are likely to harm others). By all means warn them of the dangers, but some people live off danger.

Evel Knievel probably wouldn't have thanked anyone if they tried to cancel one of his stunts (even after breaking every bone in his body)

And if you try to stop people from doing dangerous things, where exactly do we draw the line?

 

[cantata]

yes.

example: look at all the stupid laws that have been passed... things that apply only to a few, not so discerning people

What would be an example of such a law?

 

[Meshavrischika]

Bear wrestling matches are prohibited. - Alabama
It is illegal to maim oneself to escape duty. - again Alabama
While it is legal to shoot bears, waking a sleeping bear for the purpose of taking a photograph is prohibited.- Alaska
It is considered an offense to push a live moose out of a moving airplane.- Alaska
Alligators may not be kept in bathtubs. - Arkansas

 

[cantata]

Bear wrestling matches are prohibited. - Alabama
It is illegal to maim oneself to escape duty. - again Alabama
While it is legal to shoot bears, waking a sleeping bear for the purpose of taking a photograph is prohibited.- Alaska
It is considered an offense to push a live moose out of a moving airplane.- Alaska
Alligators may not be kept in bathtubs. - Arkansas

Well, the bear wrestling and the bathtub alligators are both examples of cruelty to animals. Pushing a live moose out of an aeroplane would be very dangerous to the moose and the people on the ground, so I don't think that's a particularly silly law either.

What is 'duty'? If it's national service or jury duty, then I think that law is fair.

The bear photography one is pretty unnecessary. In general I think any laws against victimless crimes are rather pointless. But I doubt anyone would actually avoid taking a photograph of a sleeping bear because of the law anyway. If you're willing to take a photograph and are assuming that you're not going to get attacked, you're probably also assuming that you won't be caught. (How would you get caught unless you got attacked?)

 

[Meshavrischika]

Well, the bear wrestling and the bathtub alligators are both examples of cruelty to animals. Pushing a live moose out of an aeroplane would be very dangerous to the moose and the people on the ground, so I don't think that's a particularly silly law either.

What is 'duty'? If it's national service or jury duty, then I think that law is fair.

The bear photography one is pretty unnecessary. In general I think any laws against victimless crimes are rather pointless. But I doubt anyone would actually avoid taking a photograph of a sleeping bear because of the law anyway. If you're willing to take a photograph and are assuming that you're not going to get attacked, you're probably also assuming that you won't be caught. (How would you get caught unless you got attacked?)

So we can agree that at least the bear photography one is protecting people from their own stupidity, right?

 

[cantata]

Sure, but why does the law upset you? I assume it doesn't affect you.

 

[Meshavrischika]

Sure, but why does the law upset you? I assume it doesn't affect you.

it doesn't. (upset me or affect me)

i just feel it is rather pointless to try to protect someone this (well sorry) stupid from themselves.

 

[Autumnleaf]

Bear wrestling matches are prohibited. - Alabama
It is illegal to maim oneself to escape duty. - again Alabama
While it is legal to shoot bears, waking a sleeping bear for the purpose of taking a photograph is prohibited.- Alaska
It is considered an offense to push a live moose out of a moving airplane.- Alaska
Alligators may not be kept in bathtubs. - Arkansas

I think most of those laws are to help protect ignorant people from themselves or others. I can't remember the last time I've seen any children's show teaching them how dangerous bears are. Can you? Aren't bears cute and cuddly and supposed to tell us to help stop forrest fires?

The first example you gave might be an exception to the ignorance thing because shooting yourself in the leg might save your life if you are due to go to Iraq (or Vietnam?).

 

[Meshavrischika]

I think most of those laws are to help protect ignorant people from themselves or others. I can't remember the last time I've seen any children's show teaching them how dangerous bears are. Can you? Aren't bears cute and cuddly and supposed to tell us to help stop forrest fires?

The first example you gave might be an exception to the ignorance thing because shooting yourself in the leg might save your life if you are due to go to Iraq (or Vietnam?).

I suppose... but again, by the time someone is old enough to come close to a bear (I'm talking protecting adults, not kids... kids are going to do stupid things) you should be old enough to have SOME concept that this is a bad idea.

on the shooting in the leg thing... that's a state law not having any commentary on service in Iraq I don't think... it's likely related to state business (maybe jury stuff? no telling)

 

[cantata]

So what, it's better to let the stupid people get mauled by bears?

Although I think it's a silly law, I don't think it's silly because some people are better off removed from the gene pool.

 

[Meshavrischika]

So what, it's better to let the stupid people get mauled by bears?

Although I think it's a silly law, I don't think it's silly because some people are better off removed from the gene pool.

the stupid people likely aren't going to follow the law anyway... KWIM?

it's like legislating the drinking age... come on... how many people will do it "just because"? laws do not necessarily stop people from doing things. if you're lacking in the good decision making department, you're not going to let a little law stop you from whatever idiotic decision you're making

 

[stan1980]

There are other laws in place to protect the public from themselves, which actually put others at a slightly higher risk of danger.

For example, I can't remember the exact technical term for it, but it is illegal to do one of those parachute jumps off the top off a building. It is also illegal to climb up buildings without safety gear. People still do it, and because it is illegal, they can't clear a space at ground level to protect the general public from being hit.

Most these people do it for the thrill, like as mentioned earlier Evil Knievel. They know the risks normally, and we can tell them the risks, but apart from that there isn't much else we can do to stop them, and by making these sorts of things illegal we are probably putting them and the public at more danger.

Let them get on with it I say (they obviously have a passion for it!), and if they want to make a public spectacle of it, then so be it. At least by doing so, you can have medical staff on standby, and you can keep the public a safe distance away.

 

[cantata]

That's base jumping.