Thin layer of silt proves flood

Bungle_Bear · Apr 1, 2020

Aussie Pete said:
I disagree with your premise that evolution is not dependent on abiogenesis. If you are referring to adaptation within species, that is not evolution.

And there's another example of the problems we face in these forums - you obviously have your own definition of "evolution" but haven't bothered telling anyone else what it is. While the rest of us work with the common definitions used by pretty much every scientist in the world, you plod along with your own definition and then declare that we must all be wrong because you say so.

Could you please provide the definition you are working with so we can all get on the same page?

KCfromNC · Apr 2, 2020

durangodawood said:
Maybe there was some functional, non-deceptive, reason why the effects of the great flood had to be removed?

Seems like something that should have been included in the instruction book, if that were the case. Leaving it out makes things at best very confusing.

durangodawood · Apr 2, 2020

KCfromNC said:
Seems like something that should have been included in the instruction book, if that were the case. Leaving it out makes things at best very confusing.

This is true.

I can only go so far trying to defend the indefensible.

FrumiousBandersnatch · Apr 2, 2020

durangodawood said:
Maybe there was some functional, non-deceptive, reason why the effects of the great flood had to be removed?

Perhaps the whole thing was knowingly done just to create a contradictory story and subsequent confusion over evidence and plausibility...

But an omnipotent, omniscient deity could have simply removed/destroyed all offending life directly, and given Noah and his family appropriate memories of the whole thing, for exactly the same effect.

durangodawood · Apr 2, 2020

FrumiousBandersnatch said:
Perhaps the whole thing was knowingly done just to create a contradictory story and subsequent confusion over evidence and plausibility...

But an omnipotent, omniscient deity could have simply removed/destroyed all offending life directly, and given Noah and his family appropriate memories of the whole thing, for exactly the same effect.

No ark? No animals 2 by 2? That would make for a lame story.

FrumiousBandersnatch · Apr 2, 2020

durangodawood said:
No ark? No animals 2 by 2? That would make for a lame story.

Yes, ark; yes, animals; the story would be exactly the same, but without the unnecessary realisation of the events.

You don't really even need Noah and his family, or the destruction of almost all life; God could simply leave everything as-is, and just plant the story in an old book...

Subduction Zone · Apr 2, 2020

durangodawood said:
No ark? No animals 2 by 2? That would make for a lame story.

If one believes the Ark story when did the miracles end?

Ophiolite · Apr 2, 2020

durangodawood said:
I can only go so far trying to defend the indefensible.

Is that why you decided not to go into politics?

durangodawood · Apr 2, 2020

Ophiolite said:
Is that why you decided not to go into politics?

I'm a lousy bullsitter.

Shemjaza · Apr 3, 2020

I suspect that, in the western world, TE Christians out number atheists of all stripes.

(Also, incidentally there is an atheistic religion called Raëlism that promotes the belief in the intelligent design of all life on Earth by super advanced human-like aliens).

Kylie · Apr 3, 2020

Shemjaza said:
I suspect that, in the western world, TE Christians out number atheists of all stripes.

I'm not surprised, Christianity is very widespread.

(Also, incidentally there is an atheistic religion called Raëlism that promotes the belief in the intelligent design of all life on Earth by super advanced human-like aliens).

That just seems to be pushing the problem back a step. If we need intelligent design to explain the existence of Humans, we have to also explain how the aliens got here.

Shemjaza · Apr 3, 2020

Kylie said:
I'm not surprised, Christianity is very widespread.

Kylie said:
That just seems to be pushing the problem back a step. If we need intelligent design to explain the existence of Humans, we have to also explain how the aliens got here.

Raelians are not bothered by infinite regress... which makes as little sense to me as the "uncaused cause" that theistic Creationists often like.

FrumiousBandersnatch · Apr 3, 2020

Shemjaza said:
Raelians are not bothered by infinite regress... which makes as little sense to me as the "uncaused cause" that theistic Creationists often like.

Ha, it brought to mind that doggerel:

Big fleas have little fleas
Upon their backs to bite 'em.
Little fleas have smaller fleas
And so ad-infinitum.

sjastro · Apr 3, 2020

Here is a geological cross section map of the region where I live.

The yellow region labelled Qpe and Qpt is a sedimentary layer composed of coalluvial and alluvial deposits of gravel, sand, clay and silt.
The pinkish region labelled Qvn is a basalt layer.

If the sedimentary layer is the result of a "global flood" then why does it not cover the entire basalt layer?

Ophiolite · Apr 3, 2020

sjastro said:
Here is a geological cross section map of the region where I live.

The yellow region labelled Qpe and Qpt is a sedimentary layer composed of coalluvial and alluvial deposits of gravel, sand, clay and silt.
The pinkish region labelled Qvn is a basalt layer.

If the sedimentary layer is the result of a "global flood" then why does it not cover the entire basalt layer?

While we are waiting for a response to your question, I'll make the following predictions. Note that as we move further from the mountains the thickness of the QPe/Qpt sediments decreases. I predict that if you can locate data on these sediments they will show the following characteristics: moving away from the mountains

Average grain will decrease
Maximum grain size will decrease
Grain roundness will increase
Sorting will increase
The provenance of lithic clasts will be the mountains

These six features (I've included sediment thickness) are diagnostic of a sediment sourced from the mountains, not from some more general flood.

Further prediction. The sediments will show sedimentary structures that clearly demonstrate that this sedimentary wedge was built up over time and will contain, especially in distal portions, erosion surfaces within the wedge. Further evidence that no global flood caused this in a singular event.

Edit: It is a classic fault scarp alluvial fan.

Kylie · Apr 3, 2020

Ophiolite said:
While we are waiting for a response to your question, I'll make the following predictions. Note that as we move further from the mountains the thickness of the QPe/Qpt sediments decreases. I predict that if you can locate data on these sediments they will show the following characteristics: moving away from the mountains

Average grain will decrease

Maximum grain size will decrease

Grain roundness will increase

Sorting will increase

The provenance of lithic clasts will be the mountains

These six features (I've included sediment thickness) are diagnostic of a sediment sourced from the mountains, not from some more general flood.

Further prediction. The sediments will show sedimentary structures that clearly demonstrate that this sedimentary wedge was built up over time and will contain, especially in distal portions, erosion surfaces within the wedge. Further evidence that no global flood caused this in a singular event.

Edit: It is a classic fault scarp alluvial fan.

What's this? You can use knowledge of science to make predictions about what we might find in the real world that can then be tested to verify their accuracy?

Who would have thought science could do that!

HitchSlap · Apr 6, 2020

Aussie Pete said:
The Grand Canyon is one of the best arguments for the global flood.

By your assessment, then, the entire globe should look like GC?

sjastro · Apr 6, 2020

sjastro said:
Here is a geological cross section map of the region where I live.

The yellow region labelled Qpe and Qpt is a sedimentary layer composed of coalluvial and alluvial deposits of gravel, sand, clay and silt.
The pinkish region labelled Qvn is a basalt layer.

If the sedimentary layer is the result of a "global flood" then why does it not cover the entire basalt layer?

The standard response to such questions.
https://ifasgallery.ifas.ufl.edu/entnem/walker/buzz/585sss.wav

MIDutch · Apr 7, 2020

Aussie Pete said:
Some Christians believe in evolution. Obviously I'm not one of them. I've yet to meet an atheist who believes in Creationism.

Have you ever met a Buddhist who believes in Biblical creationism? Or a Hindu who believes in Biblical creationism? Or a Confucianist? Or a Daoist? Or a Sikh? Shinto? Jainist? No?

That might tell you something.

Astrophile · Apr 9, 2020

Aussie Pete said:
Some Christians believe in evolution. Obviously I'm not one of them. I've yet to meet an atheist who believes in Creationism. The majority of the many atheists I've had discussions with use evolution as their answer to where everyone and everything originated. The only other views I've come across are things such as life originating from outer space or alternative universes. I'll buy lunch for the first atheist I talk to that believes in creationism. I am not putting any money aside for that day.

Perhaps you would do better to buy lunch for the first Christian you talk to who accepts evolution and can reconcile it with his or her faith.

Thin layer of silt proves flood

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