"They" pretend God doesn't exist when in fact, deep down, they know He does.

[JGG]

I know I have another thread going, and I will respond to it once my move is over with, but in the meantime, here's something else for you to chew on for a bit...

"I think everyone makes it too complicated. The simple fact of the matter is that most atheists don't want to acknowledge the existence of God because then they'd have to do something about it. If they can manage to ignore the elephant in the room and blindly stumble through life (and often stumble into the elephant) they can pretend they believe God doesn't exist when in fact, deep down, they know He does."

 

[drich0150]

I know I have another thread going, and I will respond to it once my move is over with, but in the meantime, here's something else for you to chew on for a bit...

"I think everyone makes it too complicated. The simple fact of the matter is that most atheists don't want to acknowledge the existence of God because then they'd have to do something about it. If they can manage to ignore the elephant in the room and blindly stumble through life (and often stumble into the elephant) they can pretend they believe God doesn't exist when in fact, deep down, they know He does."

I find this to be true as well. They see God and they see a million changes that they feel they need to make rightway. Changes to who they are as individuals. Which in our society is the unforgivable sin. To which they cling on to reason and "logic" as if it was an acceptable excuse or a good "Judgment day defense Strategy."

When if fact Christ is freedom. You know after the civil war some slaves stayed with their former masters because they feared all of the changes they would have to make in their lives. The Atheist has the opportunity for freedom, but they have been slaves to sin for so long that they do not want any other master.

 

[JGG]

I find this to be true as well. They see God and they see a million changes that they feel they need to make rightway. Changes to who they are as individuals. Which in our society is the unforgivable sin.

Well, that might be true. However, is it not also possible, if not likely, that those who really need to make a lot of changes in their lives will turn to God as a last resort whether they really believe or not?

So, other than believing in God, which million changes should I, an atheist, make?

To which they cling on to reason and "logic" as if it was an acceptable excuse or a good "Judgment day defense Strategy."

No, we don't hold on to reason and logic as a "Judgment day defense strategy" we use them because they are useful tools for finding out what we need to know. The way I see it, I need a Judgment day defense strategy like I need a Zombie Deterrent.

When if fact Christ is freedom. You know after the civil war some slaves stayed with their former masters because they feared all of the changes they would have to make in their lives. The Atheist has the opportunity for freedom, but they have been slaves to sin for so long that they do not want any other master.

I do not see how I am any more a slave to sin than any Christian. Please enlighten me. What sin do I commit that Christians do not?

 

[drich0150]

Well, that might be true. However, is it not also possible, if not likely, that those who really need to make a lot of changes in their lives will turn to God as a last resort whether they really believe or not?

So, other than believing in God, which million changes should I, an atheist, make?

That's just it. There is only one change that needs to be made even though the perception is there are many. We need to learn to live for God rather than ourselves. Granted this will influence change in the lives we live, but it does not change who we are as individuals.

No, we don't hold on to reason and logic as a "Judgment day defense strategy" we use them because they are useful tools for finding out what we need to know.

You do not represent the majority of atheism either. The majority look to defer personal responsibility for sin to the authority of what has been deemed "rational thought."

The way I see it, I need a Judgment day defense strategy like I need a Zombie Deterrent.

The first Zombie story was told in the bible, so you never know..

I do not see how I am any more a slave to sin than any Christian. Please enlighten me. What sin do I commit that Christians do not?

A slave to sin means that one is bound to the sin he serves. Christians serve Christ and as a result have been freed from their sin. Our righteousness is a gift and is not tied to our ability to live apart from sin. As a slave to sin one is not only bound to the consequences of that sin they are also expected to redeem themselves through the death that their sins bring.

So why elect sin rather than freedom? The illusion that comes with sin is that one is actually free to do as He wills. When in fact that person is completely bound to the sin itself.

In Christ we have the ability to not only live in the path God has laid out for us, but when we do indeed sin their is forgiveness for that sin as well.

 

[JGG]

That's just it. There is only one change that needs to be made even though the perception is there are many. We need to learn to live for God rather than ourselves. Granted this will influence change in the lives we live, but it does not change who we are as individuals.

Okay, so how would I change how I live? That's what I am referring to. The million changes I would have to make right away that you mentioned earlier. One of the facts that make up the argument is that, as an atheist, I don't want to change. Where it stands now the only thing keeping me from acknowledging God is that I would have to...acknowledge God.

You do not represent the majority of atheism either.

No, I represent the totality of atheism. The structure of the quote, and your agreement with it, is predicated on the fact that all atheists are the same. There is no majority or minority, there is only totality. Otherwise the facts in the quote fall apart.

The majority look to defer personal responsibility for sin to the authority of what has been deemed "rational thought."

Rational thought is not an authority, it's a tool. With any luck, you use it too. You'll have to explain to me what deferrence of personal responsibility of sin is, and why atheists do it. It seems very jargony.

A slave to sin means that one is bound to the sin he serves. Christians serve Christ and as a result have been freed from their sin. Our righteousness is a gift and is not tied to our ability to live apart from sin. As a slave to sin one is not only bound to the consequences of that sin they are also expected to redeem themselves through the death that their sins bring.

So, ultimately, the only difference is that Christians go to heaven, and atheists go to hell. So how does that tie into the statement into the OP? Are you saying that atheists wish to go to hell? That they wish to be bound to sin. Why just atheists? Aren't Muslims, Jews, Mormons, Scientologists, Hindus and Buddhists just as horrible?

So why elect sin rather than freedom? The illusion that comes with sin is that one is actually free to do as He wills. When in fact that person is completely bound to the sin itself.

In Christ we have the ability to not only live in the path God has laid out for us, but when we do indeed sin their is forgiveness for that sin as well.

So then, why do I have to change? If the only difference is that Christians are forgiven for sins they commit, and go to heaven, and atheists are not, and go to hell then what would I have to "do about it?"

 

[drich0150]

Okay, so how would I change how I live? That's what I am referring to. The million changes I would have to make right away that you mentioned earlier.

Again "the millions of changes I alluded to earlier" Was Just a PERCEPTION that all atheists share. It is apart of Christianity that most can not get past. Because of all of the PERCEIVED Changes one needs to make you all over look the one change required. (Which is something I outlined in my last post.)

One of the facts that make up the argument is that, as an atheist, I don't want to change. Where it stands now the only thing keeping me from acknowledging God is that I would have to...acknowledge God.

That is a problem then. For God is patient, and forgiving, but do not mistake his patience for acceptance, for change you must, We are required to meet Him as close as you can to His standard for us.

Rational thought is not an authority, it's a tool. With any luck, you use it too. You'll have to explain to me what deference of personal responsibility of sin is, and why atheists do it. It seems very jargony.

I am not speaking of actual rational thought. I am speaking of the thought process deemed "rational" when in fact it is not. This "rational Thought" Becomes the governing authority for all who look for an excuse to dodge the responsibility of sin. Yes it can be considered a tool, but it's one some people yield to as the defining authority of their lives.

So, ultimately, the only difference is that Christians go to heaven, and atheists go to hell. So how does that tie into the statement into the OP? Are you saying that atheists wish to go to hell?

In a sense yes. They seek separation from the God who demands Change. Most do not want or simply will not change. a life in Heaven will mean at least one very significant change in everyone's life. Those who do not want this change will seek separation from the one who demands it.

The God of creation is the one who demands this change, and the only place separated from creation and the omnipresent God is Hell. So Yes you all want to goto Hell in one way or another.

That they wish to be bound to sin. Why just atheists? Aren't Muslims, Jews, Mormons, Scientologists, Hindus and Buddhists just as horrible?

They too will be judged according to the opportunities they had to serve God.

So then, why do I have to change?

Because having a change of heart and learning to live for/Love the God described in the bible is one of the only requirements that any of us have been given.

If the only difference is that Christians are forgiven for sins they commit, and go to heaven, and atheists are not, and go to hell then what would I have to "do about it?

I think you have answered your own question. Become a Christian.

 

[JGG]

Again "the millions of changes I alluded to earlier" Was Just a PERCEPTION that all atheists share. It is apart of Christianity that most can not get past. Because of all of the PERCEIVED Changes one needs to make you all over look the one change required. (Which is something I outlined in my last post.)

Okay, what million changes do all atheists perceive that they need to make?

I am not speaking of actual rational thought. I am speaking of the thought process deemed "rational" when in fact it is not. This "rational Thought" Becomes the governing authority for all who look for an excuse to dodge the responsibility of sin. Yes it can be considered a tool, but it's one some people yield to as the defining authority of their lives.

Which part is irrational?

In a sense yes. They seek separation from the God who demands Change. Most do not want or simply will not change. a life in Heaven will mean at least one very significant change in everyone's life. Those who do not want this change will seek separation from the one who demands it.

The God of creation is the one who demands this change, and the only place separated from creation and the omnipresent God is Hell. So Yes you all want to goto Hell in one way or another.

But you just said that there was no change. You said tat atheists PERCEIVE it. The only change left is belief in God, which is the very thing all this change is preventing us from doing. So what change are you talking about?

Because having a change of heart and learning to live for/Love the God described in the bible is one of the only requirements that any of us have been given.

I think you have answered your own question. Become a Christian.

Okay, I'm in the club. Change my icon, get my spot in heaven waiting, I'm off to bed.

 

[drich0150]

Okay, what million changes do all atheists perceive that they need to make?

The majority believe that Christianity is a works based religion. (Like every other religion out there) Basically that means they have to work or earn their way to heaven by doing certain deeds refraining certain activities, performing others. Basically all of the works involved in what most of you think Christianity is.

Which part is irrational?

Here something I think you are missing. "Rational Thought" is not Rational Thought. "Rational Thought" is what I have defined over and over and over as being a mindless exercise to avoid responsibility for sin. That is the reason for the quotes. Because this process that is called "rational thought" is not rational at all. It is a devotion to willful sin because God has not made Himself or His will known to these individuals on a personal level.

Rational thought without the quotes is what you are defending.

But you just said that there was no change.

Read what I have written again from the beginning. I have always said there was change needed, at least one. And i pointed to the fact that because atheist believe that there are millions of changes to be made they give up before they even hear of the one that is required.

You said tat atheists PERCEIVE it.

I said atheists perceive a million different things that need to be changed in their lives.
Perhaps if you were not trying to find a religious cliché to categorize this conversation into, so you could parrot back the proper clichéd response, you could read what has been written and take it at face value.

The only change left is belief in God, which is the very thing all this change is preventing us from doing. So what change are you talking about?

A change of Heart. Serve/Love God rather than serve love yourself first.

Okay, I'm in the club. Change my icon, get my spot in heaven waiting, I'm off to bed.

There is a bit of an issue that still needs to be resolved. Your icon nor your verbal/written acceptance into Christianity is what makes you a Christian. You still have to make a Change.

Mat 7 says not everyone who calls out "Lord, lord." will Christ recognize as one of His own. Know God is not fooled by lip service or half hearted efforts, nor is He bound by some religious incantation or ceremony. The change you make will have to be real and completely genuine. otherwise know your efforts will be meaningless.

 

[JGG]

The majority believe that Christianity is a works based religion. (Like every other religion out there) Basically that means they have to work or earn their way to heaven by doing certain deeds refraining certain activities, performing others. Basically all of the works involved in what most of you think Christianity is.

I'm pretty confident that most atheists do not see Christianity as a religion of works.

Here something I think you are missing. "Rational Thought" is not Rational Thought. "Rational Thought" is what I have defined over and over and over as being a mindless exercise to avoid responsibility for sin. That is the reason for the quotes. Because this process that is called "rational thought" is not rational at all. It is a devotion to willful sin because God has not made Himself or His will known to these individuals on a personal level.

Yes you keep saying that bit about responsibility for sin. Perhaps this would go smoother if you would explain "responsibility for sin." As I said before, it sounds like jargon.

Read what I have written again from the beginning. I have always said there was change needed, at least one. And i pointed to the fact that because atheist believe that there are millions of changes to be made they give up before they even hear of the one that is required.

How do you know that atheists even think that?

I said atheists perceive a million different things that need to be changed in their lives. Perhaps if you were not trying to find a religious cliché to categorize this conversation into, so you could parrot back the proper clichéd response, you could read what has been written and take it at face value.

You mean like the cliché of atheists don't believe because they really believe and just want to sin/rebel/be generally evil and stupid? That sort of cliché? Is it not an option that atheists don't believe because they don't buy into creationism/women borne of ribs/God destroying entire cities/worldwide floods/two of every animal on a single boat/people living in whales/seas parting/burning bushes/men of extreme power because of hair/virgin births/walking on water/wine from water/fish and bread that feed hundreds/resurrection and just generally the whole concept of an omnipotent/omniscient/omnipresent creator of planets, stars, galaxies and existence, who cares immensely about how I have sex, and with whom? Is it not a possibility that atheists don't believe because the whole concept is somewhat unbelievable, and rather poorly defined?

A change of Heart. Serve/Love God rather than serve love yourself first.

Firstly, I would hardly put myself first on that list. What does love God rather than yourself entail?

There is a bit of an issue that still needs to be resolved. Your icon nor your verbal/written acceptance into Christianity is what makes you a Christian. You still have to make a Change.

Mat 7 says not everyone who calls out "Lord, lord." will Christ recognize as one of His own. Know God is not fooled by lip service or half hearted efforts, nor is He bound by some religious incantation or ceremony. The change you make will have to be real and completely genuine. otherwise know your efforts will be meaningless.[/QUOTE]

Well either I believe or I don't (I don't, that's easy), how can it be half-hearted? How can it be faked, really?

 

[drich0150]

I'm pretty confident that most atheists do not see Christianity as a religion of works.

A large number of Christians make this mistake, Catholicism is based around the works of Christianity, and majority of the world knows the Catholic model. One would have to really do his or her home work to understand that Christianity is not based in works. It is hard to completely separate one self from the works of a given religion completely. you even seem to show difficulty doing this. Out of the 33 threads you have started a solid 1/2 dozen or so are dedicated to the works or acts of Christians as it pertains to righteousness. You may not "see" Christianity as a matter of point for the sake of discussion. But your inquiries speak of a different vision.

Yes you keep saying that bit about responsibility for sin. Perhaps this would go smoother if you would explain "responsibility for sin." As I said before, it sounds like jargon.

Asked and answered. Unless God reveals himself to the individual exhibiting this quality, then the person in question uses that leveraged reasoning to dismiss the authority of God. If there is no God then their is no sin. No sin then their is nothing to be responsible for.

How do you know that atheists even think that?

Because I have answered thousands upon thousands, maybe even tens of thousands of questions to this point from atheists who do indeed think that. Outside of yourself how may other atheists have you collaborated with to confirm your understanding of atheism? Do the people in question all agree with you or did you take the time to study and understand all of those who have a different view of Atheism, as i have?

You mean like the cliché of atheists don't believe because they really believe and just want to sin/rebel/be generally evil and stupid? That sort of cliché?

Nope. i mean to say you are skimming my posts and trying to catch the gist of what is being said so you can quickly respond rather than address that actual points I have taken the time to make. This is made evident by the number of times you ask the same answered question. For you see because of your Christian past you are expecting the same tired answer you were taught to give and do not look at what I have written.

Is it not an option that atheists don't believe because they don't buy into creationism/women borne of ribs/God destroying entire cities/worldwide floods/two of every animal on a single boat/people living in whales/seas parting/burning bushes/men of extreme power because of hair/virgin births/walking on water/wine from water/fish and bread that feed hundreds/resurrection and just generally the whole concept of an omnipotent/omniscient/omnipresent creator of planets, stars, galaxies and existence, who cares immensely about how I have sex, and with whom? Is it not a possibility that atheists don't believe because the whole concept is somewhat unbelievable, and rather poorly defined?

None of this is relevant in the least. Other than to say these are indeed the cliché responses to Christianity's "answers" you were seeking opportunity to plug in some how. It seems you have forced opportunity as the conversation did not merit such a tired response. For you see, I was speaking to the mechanics of the conversation and not to content.

Firstly, I would hardly put myself first on that list. What does love God rather than yourself entail?

It is an all encompassing love given to God. One is to Love the Lord God with all of His Heart, Mind, Spirit, and Strength. Basically the love you have for God comes before the Love you have for self. That means if you love someone more than yourself then you will do for them or seek their will over your own.

Well either I believe or I don't (I don't, that's easy), how can it be half-hearted? How can it be faked, really?

Apparently "Belief" is more than what you understand to be.

Mat 7:
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

In this example Christ shows that there are Those who call upon the name of God believe, and yet they are not accepted or recognized. Also note at all of the works these men have accomplished in the name of God. These men were very active and strong practicing Christians, but their works did not save them.(That is why it can be said that Christianity is not a religion of Works) For works did not save these men, and they did not make the one change that would. For all of their belief and strong "faith" they did not complete "The Father's will." Your next question should be what is the will of the Father, What is His greatest command?

 

[JGG]

A large number of Christians make this mistake, Catholicism is based around the works of Christianity, and majority of the world knows the Catholic model. One would have to really do his or her home work to understand that Christianity is not based in works. It is hard to completely separate one self from the works of a given religion completely. you even seem to show difficulty doing this. Out of the 33 threads you have started a solid 1/2 dozen or so are dedicated to the works or acts of Christians as it pertains to righteousness. You may not "see" Christianity as a matter of point for the sake of discussion. But your inquiries speak of a different vision.

My threads tend to be about Christian hypocrisy. A religion that holds itself above everybody else, as righteous, infallible and founded on love, and yet is made up of wicked, hateful, ego-driven people. You seem to think that I believe that Christianity is some insurmountable quest, and that's why I don't convert. I really don't see it that way at all. I doubt most atheists do. I don't convert back to Christianity because I see no truth or merit in it.

Asked and answered. Unless God reveals himself to the individual exhibiting this quality, then the person in question uses that leveraged reasoning to dismiss the authority of God. If there is no God then their is no sin. No sin then their is nothing to be responsible for.

Not answered as specifically as I would have liked. Aren't we all still responsible for sin? If there is nothing to be responsible for, you must really think atheists are truly horrible people, capable of killing, raping, stealing...And yet surely you know that generally we're not. If the point of our disbelief is to take away responsibility of sin, why don't we sin more than Christians who are responsible for their sin? Why don't I sin more?

Because I have answered thousands upon thousands, maybe even tens of thousands of questions to this point from atheists who do indeed think that. Outside of yourself how may other atheists have you collaborated with to confirm your understanding of atheism? Do the people in question all agree with you or did you take the time to study and understand all of those who have a different view of Atheism, as i have?

Ah, so you are an expert on atheists? No, if you recall the point of this thread hinges on the fact that all atheists are the same. I do not have to consult with other atheists.

Nope. i mean to say you are skimming my posts and trying to catch the gist of what is being said so you can quickly respond rather than address that actual points I have taken the time to make. This is made evident by the number of times you ask the same answered question. For you see because of your Christian past you are expecting the same tired answer you were taught to give and do not look at what I have written.

I don't want to insult you, but you haven't really said much that I haven't heard before.

None of this is relevant in the least. Other than to say these are indeed the cliché responses to Christianity's "answers" you were seeking opportunity to plug in some how. It seems you have forced opportunity as the conversation did not merit such a tired response. For you see, I was speaking to the mechanics of the conversation and not to content.

But it is relevant. In fact, it's important. Your conclusion is that atheists actually do believe, but simply dismiss It. The alternative, and less complicated, explanation is that we don't believe because the whole concept is somewhat unbelievable, as we claim. Why is that impossible? It may be tired, but it is relevant.

It is an all encompassing love given to God. One is to Love the Lord God with all of His Heart, Mind, Spirit, and Strength. Basically the love you have for God comes before the Love you have for self. That means if you love someone more than yourself then you will do for them or seek their will over your own.

Apparently "Belief" is more than what you understand to be.

Mat 7:
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

In this example Christ shows that there are Those who call upon the name of God believe, and yet they are not accepted or recognized. Also note at all of the works these men have accomplished in the name of God. These men were very active and strong practicing Christians, but their works did not save them.(That is why it can be said that Christianity is not a religion of Works) For works did not save these men, and they did not make the one change that would. For all of their belief and strong "faith" they did not complete "The Father's will." Your next question should be what is the will of the Father, What is His greatest command?

Actually, I'm more interested in the one that follows that.

 

[drich0150]

Not answered as specifically as I would have liked. Aren't we all still responsible for sin? If there is nothing to be responsible for, you must really think atheists are truly horrible people, capable of killing, raping, stealing...And yet surely you know that generally we're not. If the point of our disbelief is to take away responsibility of sin, why don't we sin more than Christians who are responsible for their sin? Why don't I sin more?

Perhaps you misunderstand the general concept. Sin is anything not in the expressed will of God. Sin is not the moral responsibility we all have living in a society. Your fear of prison is what keeps you in check, it is what keeps you from from committing crimes against this society.

Ah, so you are an expert on atheists? No, if you recall the point of this thread hinges on the fact that all atheists are the same. I do not have to consult with other atheists.

Well I have and can tell you that most of you choose Atheism because you can bend it any way you wish, to justify the life style you want to live. There isn't a god or any type of authority your or your fellow believers have to answer to. That is about the only thing you all universally have in common.

I don't want to insult you, but you haven't really said much that I haven't heard before.

Which is my point. You look for things you can identify and dismiss the rest. Which is the reason why you have asked one question in particular 4 times. (One that was answer out of the gate, but since you already knew what was said it left a question. 4 of them because you just knew you caught me in a contradictory statement apparently.)

But it is relevant. In fact, it's important. Your conclusion is that atheists actually do believe, but simply dismiss It. The alternative, and less complicated, explanation is that we don't believe because the whole concept is somewhat unbelievable, as we claim. Why is that impossible? It may be tired, but it is relevant.

It was not relevant in the least because again I was speaking to the mechanics of the conversation and not the content. (Asked and answer 2 times now, will we go again?)

Actually, I'm more interested in the one that follows that.

Not if we maintain the subject of the original discussion. Your question is answered in the verses provided.

If you wish to discuss the following verses then just say so.

 

[JGG]

Perhaps you misunderstand the general concept. Sin is anything not in the expressed will of God. Sin is not the moral responsibility we all have living in a society. Your fear of prison is what keeps you in check, it is what keeps you from from committing crimes against this society.

I said nothing about committing crimes against society. Why don't atheists sin more? Unless you feel they do. If so, please explain which sins I commit that Christians do not.

Well I have and can tell you that most of you choose Atheism because you can bend it any way you wish, to justify the life style you want to live.

Bend atheism? And you're the atheist expert?

There isn't a god or any type of authority your or your fellow believers have to answer to.

Firstly, my "fellow believers?" Really? And you're the expert? Secondly, just being a theist doesn't necessarily mean that there is a deity that one has to answer to. Really your beef isn't with atheists, but with non-Christians.

That is about the only thing you all universally have in common.

Which is my point. You look for things you can identify and dismiss the rest. Which is the reason why you have asked one question in particular 4 times. (One that was answer out of the gate, but since you already knew what was said it left a question. 4 of them because you just knew you caught me in a contradictory statement apparently.)

I'm likely going to keep asking until you can make it make sense. Just because you've explained something (even 4 times), doesn't mean you've explained it well.

It was not relevant in the least because again I was speaking to the mechanics of the conversation and not the content. (Asked and answer 2 times now, will we go again?)

Yes, let's go again. I'm looking at content. You said you agree with the original statement. Why is it absolutely impossible that those who don't believe, genuinely don't believe? This whole thread is about Christian "mind reading." I would like for you to demonstrate how you're able to read my mind.

Not if we maintain the subject of the original discussion. Your question is answered in the verses provided.

My question has nothing to do with what's in those verses. You just interpret it that way. I'm talking about the social implications of you Christians who hold themselves as so superior that they even dictate to me what I think.

If you wish to discuss the following verses then just say so.

I do not.

 

[drich0150]

I said nothing about committing crimes against society. Why don't atheists sin more?

The list of sins you posted were indeed crimes, that is why I responded in the way I did.

Unless you feel they do. If so, please explain which sins I commit that Christians do not.

If the religious doctrine is correct that says denying the Power of the Holy Spirit is a sin, then currently you and the rest of your crew are involved with blaspheme of the Holy Spirit. A sin that seals your fate at the point of your death, according to the doctrine.
That's a big one, for all other sins can be forgiven. This one can not if you live your life or rather finish your life in denial of the Holy Spirit.

Bend atheism?

Bend meaning to change or influence what normally be core doctrine in any other faith.

And you're the atheist expert?

Perhaps more experienced with dealing with atheists and their core beliefs than even most atheists have deal with amongst themselves.

Firstly, my "fellow believers?" Really? And you're the expert?

Yes and according to your own confession I am the expert, and if you do not see the patterns I am pointing to you should open your mind and follow up with questions defining the term "fellow believers" rather than hanging tight to what you believe your system of belief to Only be.

Secondly, just being a theist doesn't necessarily mean that there is a deity that one has to answer to. Really your beef isn't with atheists, but with non-Christians.

Actually no. My "beef" is with any system of belief or individual, that deems it necessary to have it's believers, or himself come to a Christian web site busy about the business of sharing the Christian faith, and disrupt or push their doctrinal beliefs, as a way to discount Christianity. Outside of those guilty of this sin, I am openly and honestly not concerned in what any of you believe. My job is to provide opportunity to those interested in seeking a relationship with God. Maybe that is why I still have family members who are Buddhist, and Atheist Father.

We all have a decision to make, that decision does not concern me unless it conflicts with my path and responsibilities given to me by God.

That said it is plan to see you are projecting and inverting your strong dislike of Christians on to me. (Another common attribute to the majority of Your People.) It is you who Hates Christians. Otherwise why take the time to come here with challenges, and continue with the effort with follow ups??

I'm likely going to keep asking until you can make it make sense. Just because you've explained something (even 4 times), doesn't mean you've explained it well.

Perhaps you should rephrase. If you are not able to understand the question then it is up to you to break down your own principles to something you can understand. That is known as a follow up. Asking the same question over and over only points to one who is not reading the answers given or is expecting a very specific answer that he has not yet received.

If the second is true then perhaps you do not know Christianity as well as your Sunday school experience has lead you to believe.

Yes, let's go again. I'm looking at content. You said you agree with the original statement. Why is it absolutely impossible that those who don't believe, genuinely don't believe? This whole thread is about Christian "mind reading." I would like for you to demonstrate how you're able to read my mind.

I am not able to read minds. However, God is. God told us Through Paul in Romans 1:18-32 that all are built with an acknowledge of Him, and that knowledge is confirmed in the events and evidences He has provided in our daily lives.
If you do not believe it is because you have turned your back on God in favor of another system of belief, and as such you will be allowed to worship yourself (in your case) or any other God, until the day of your judgment, so that you will know the judgment levied against you is just and complete.


See, much better when you rephrase. As I could not read your mind I only answered the question you left, (4times.) when you rephrased I was able to point you in the right direction.

My question has nothing to do with what's in those verses. You just interpret it that way. I'm talking about the social implications of you Christians who hold themselves as so superior that they even dictate to me what I think.

 

[Soothfish]

I know I have another thread going, and I will respond to it once my move is over with, but in the meantime, here's something else for you to chew on for a bit...

"I think everyone makes it too complicated. The simple fact of the matter is that most atheists don't want to acknowledge the existence of God because then they'd have to do something about it. If they can manage to ignore the elephant in the room and blindly stumble through life (and often stumble into the elephant) they can pretend they believe God doesn't exist when in fact, deep down, they know He does."

Many Christians like to say this but I have to disagree. I have been an atheist for many many years. I didn't know "deep down" that he existed. God was completely absent from my worldview. Painfully so. It took years of struggle to get out of my dark and nihilistic worldview. As of this day, I have not fully emerged from it.

The "angry atheists" are angry because deep down they know that they are doing something very immoral. What that something is depends on the person. In many cases they are trying to promote a radical left wing agenda and despise any religious institution that wants to counter it. That doesn't mean they think a deity exists and hate him for it. It means they know goodness exists and they hate it!

 

[Non sequitur]

The "angry atheists" are angry because deep down they know that they are doing something very immoral. What that something is depends on the person. In many cases they are trying to promote a radical left wing agenda and despise any religious institution that wants to counter it. That doesn't mean they think a deity exists and hate him for it. It means they know goodness exists and they hate it!

So "not-angry atheists" know they aren't doing anything immoral?

 

[Soothfish]

My threads tend to be about Christian hypocrisy. A religion that holds itself above everybody else, as righteous, infallible and founded on love, and yet is made up of wicked, hateful, ego-driven people. You seem to think that I believe that Christianity is some insurmountable quest, and that's why I don't convert. I really don't see it that way at all. I doubt most atheists do. I don't convert back to Christianity because I see no truth or merit in it.

No, you FEEL no truth or merit in it. Let's be logical for a moment here. Christianity is the only belief system that says that all human beings (besides Jesus) are wicked and need a savior to get better. You said that the Christians you met are wicked, hateful, ego-driven people. Therefore, if you find that people and even Christians are wicked, it still confirms the central tenet of the faith.

Religious association is meaningless but a transformation happens when Christians and others choose the path of humility before God.

 

[Soothfish]

So "not-angry atheists" know they aren't doing anything immoral?

Technically yes. The less angry they are the more humble they are and the more open minded they are about other beliefs. However, people hide their anger in different ways. I wouldn't jump to conclusions about the person.

This is not to say that all anger means foolishness and a closed mind. Just the kind that leads to hatred of the thoughts in someone else's mind.

 

[Non sequitur]

Technically yes. The less angry they are the more humble they are and the more open minded they are about other beliefs. However, people hide their anger in different ways. I wouldn't jump to conclusions about the person.

This is not to say that all anger means foolishness and a closed mind. Just the kind that leads to hatred of the thoughts in someone else's mind.

Sometimes I'm angry and other times not.

Are insinuating that they are doing something immoral, in both scenarios?

 

[orangelight]

I know I have another thread going, and I will respond to it once my move is over with, but in the meantime, here's something else for you to chew on for a bit...

"I think everyone makes it too complicated. The simple fact of the matter is that most atheists don't want to acknowledge the existence of God because then they'd have to do something about it. If they can manage to ignore the elephant in the room and blindly stumble through life (and often stumble into the elephant) they can pretend they believe God doesn't exist when in fact, deep down, they know He does."

I think that some believers can't stand the idea that there is people around the world who don't believe in their gods or religion, so they try to make up things against them to prove their faith. Those who pretend to not believe while they actually believe, are not atheists, they are simply " fake believers".