• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

These scriptures: Your thoughts?

GallagherM

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2021
818
349
35
Fyffe
✟13,469.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Philippians 3:
8 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ,

9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,

10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death;

11 in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.

12 Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.

13 Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead,

14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

15 Let us therefore, as many as are mature, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you;
 

Carl Emerson

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2017
16,261
10,715
80
Auckland
✟480,015.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Great verses.

Maybe these truths are easier to appreciate by those who have experienced crisis and radical encounter with Him...

However all are called to fully lay down their lives - a matter that many struggle with...
 
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
30,163
7,768
North Carolina
✟369,483.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Philippians 3:
8 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ,
9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,
10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death;
11 in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
12 Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but
I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and
reaching forward to what lies ahead,
14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Let us therefore, as many as are mature, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you;
v. 9 - "may be found in him,". . .as in the OT city of refuge (Numbers 35:11-15).

And there's a work of sanctification/holiness in which the Christian is to engage in this life, everywhere testifed to in the NT, for
"Without holiness, no one will see the Lord." (Hebrews 12:14)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

EmethAlethia

Newbie
Oct 5, 2014
404
107
64
✟43,633.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Worshiping God in Spirit and truth. Well, everyone who believes there is a God believes their belief group gets this as correct as is possible on this earth. The question is, since every belief group believes these things, do they all accomplish this goal. The answer, of course, since they all contradict every other belief set ... no. They just believe they have the truth.


2Th 2:10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness. 13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

And, if they believe in a God, they all go to the scriptures and gather what they can "use" to prove their beliefs true and get a few additional things from God to support their beliefs. Think about it. Talk to anyone about their beliefs. What do they share? They ...

1.) Share the proof that verifies their views are the correct ones. What else do they share?

2.) They share the evidence that proves all opposing views are off. How do they interpret everything?

3.) They Interpret everything in the light of what they “know” is truth. What is truth? For each of them, the truth is their beliefs. Ergo, all correct interpretations … of all “valid” data, must support … or at least not negate, their infallible beliefs.

4.) Anything that doesn’t seem to fit with our views, they reinterpret, ignore, discredit, invalidate …

5.) They may share experiences, signs, or other "facts" about their belief group that are foundational to believing as they do. Things like: We have a burning in the bosom, we speak in tongues, we perform signs or wonders, a statue of Mary came to life and told us our belief groups views are correct, we have prayed to God for the truth and received “feelings” or even signs from heaven. Or, on a more concrete level we have facts about our belief group. Things like: Our belief group is the oldest, largest, fastest growing, wealthiest, has the most experts with doctorates… We include anything that adds assurance that our way is the best way.”

But these are the things we do "if" we just want to believe what we want to believe, and have reasons for discarding the rest. This process closes our eyes, ears and hearts to even considering anything else. And this process allows all the people from every belief group that believes themselves Christian to believe the gospel is simple, while each of them believes completely different “simple” gospels. Everyone gets what they want.

Everyone doing the above process has unquestionably true, infallible beliefs. And if you do more of any one of them, all you will do is harden yourself more and more into what you “want to believe” Why? Look at 1-5 above. I call these 5 "Methodology One": The Methodology of belief groups. Every one of them is designed to keep people locked into the belief groups beliefs forever and die with those beliefs intact.

Think about it. If you do more of any of them, how long before you discover your beliefs are false? How long before you realize something else is true? Answer to both is you can never get to anything but complete assurance of your beliefs, whether you are an Atheist, Moslem, Jew, Roman Catholic, Baptist, Mormon ... everyone does the methodology above to hold fast to their beliefs "as" truth.

Worshipping in Spirit and Truth REQUIRES a different Method ... Try this one on for size:

1.) Rule #1: Avoid “Methodology One”: Proving your beliefs true and holding fast to them, is not the same as, “Proving all things over and over again as a habit and way of life, and holding fast to what is good/true.” Look at that 2Th. 2:10-13 passage. Paul said that the lost in the end times failed, and Paul used the same standard and judged that those he was writing to were held to the same standard but passed the test and received a love of the truth and were true Christians making this a timeless truth.

2.) Open-mindedness: All belief groups believe in being open minded … “until” you accept their beliefs. Then they believe in being as closed as possible. If you love truth, you will continually remain open-minded to altering any or all of your beliefs in the light of the fullness of the truth, when everything that “might” pertain to the topic at hand is rightly divided. How many passages are there about closing your eyes and ears lest you see or hear. Look at Methodology One again. What is it designed to do?

3.) Habitual ongoing Labor/ Getting Every Piece of Data that Might Pertain: If you Love Truth, you, personally, must become a manual laborer and keep on gathering every fact anyone thinks might pertain to every topic at hand. Then gather all the data that “might pertain” no belief group gathers because they can’t use that information to prove their beliefs true or opposing beliefs false. Yes, that’s every piece of data that proves all your current beliefs false that the opponents to your beliefs have gathered, and every fact that might prove beliefs you believe to be wrong to be truth on that topic as well. We are commanded to be habitual, ongoing, never stopping laborers who are approved by God and won’t stand ashamed before Him. How do we determine what that outcome will be? We habitually “Cut-straight” every single piece of the word of God that “might” apply to the topic at hand. This is way different than looking for passages of scripture to prove true what we want to teach on a topic.


CONSISTENCY IN INTERPRETATION: If God, God’s word, and God’s people are not consistent in what they say and do and DON’T SAY AND DON’T DO, then looking for truth in the bible is a waste of time.

4.) Consistency with Background Context: Pick a meaning that fully aligns with the historical, legal, architectural, agricultural … context.

5.) Consistency of Meaning of words/root words/figures of speech: Hold to a meaning for all words, root words, and figures of speech consistent with their usage throughout the Old and New Testament. We have a Greek Old and New Testament and a Hebrew Old Testament, pick a meaning fully fitting everywhere the same word, root word, and figure of speech is used.

6.) Consistency with the Surrounding Discussion: Hold to a meaning consistent with the entire discussion surrounding the verse or passage being considered, hold to the flow of thought, flow of arguments, meaning of points made …

7.) Consistency with conscience: Example: If your interpretation would be a sin if a man did likewise and your interpretation results in believing God does what would be sin for us, your interpretation is wrong. i.e., there are no illustrations in the Bible where God says He commits adultery. If your chosen meaning for the word adultery would make God an adulterer, and by His own admission, you picked the wrong meaning for the word. In other words, if you hold to polygamy as adultery you accuse God Himself of adultery.

8.) God, God’s People and God’s Word are 100% consistent: Pick an interpretation for all the data that makes God, God’s people and God’s word 100% consistent in “all” they say and do and “all” they don’t say and don’t do. Any inconsistencies, are proof of incorrect beliefs/definitions.

9.) Always apply logic, reason, and rational thinking: Pick an interpretation fully fitting with all logic, reason, and rational thinking. (i.e., if the writer spent a whole chapter saying all gifts are equal and necessary, that none are greater than any others, … do not choose an interpretation for the very next verse that would command us to desire what God spent the previous 30 verses saying doesn’t exist, and that you can’t get, period, regardless of your desire. “Earnestly desire the greater gifts”, contradicts everything prior. Look for the “other” possible meaning. Note: There is one.

10.) Start with the Easiest/Clearest … data on the topic: Interpret the clearest, easiest understood, most straightforward data/passages first—then the more complex or difficult passages. The complex, convoluted, and difficult passages are easy to distort to fit beliefs.

11.) It ALL fits together: Pick a meaning for the parts that fully fit with the whole of the data that might pertain without adding meaning, subtracting meaning, or distorting anything to force it to comply with your beliefs. If everything gathered (#3 above) does not fully fit with everything in #4-10 above, you have the wrong meaning, and you are forcing the scriptures to fit what you want to believe “as” truth.

12.) Keep on continuously proving all things over and over again as a habit and way of life and never stop … and hold fast to what is good/true. Getting to truth is an ongoing process that never ends. One single verse, one fact you missed, one slight change in interpretation … can force a complete reevaluation and even a complete a change of beliefs. That is, if you love truth, and obey what God commands all His people to be continuously doing for and by themselves. If not …

13.) It’s all on You! Trusting others to get to truth “for” you, is like trusting others to have a relationship with your wife / husband / kids “for” you. It cannot be done. Your failure to keep on habitually doing as God commands all His people to keep on habitually doing, proves you have gathered enough using Methodology One to hold fast to what you want to believe and fall short of 2Th. 2:10-12

I always tell everyone: Understand, “Agreement with me might only make us both wrong.” Why? Because it's true. It only takes one verse I missed, in context, cut straight, to change my beliefs.

This verse is in the present tense meaning ongoing continuous action:

“Keep on continuously proving all things over and over again as a habit and way of life and always hold fast to what is good/true.” If you love truth, and not a specific belief, you will constantly look for and reevaluate everything you can find, and yes, you will be willing to alter any and all of your beliefs to fit what the fullness of the word of God really says and means with nothing left out, and nothing distorted to try and prove “what you want to believe” true.

Starting from beliefs, and then going to those who have the same ones to get all the passages they use to prove their beliefs to be fact, opposing beliefs false, and to understand how they interpret everything to hold fast to those beliefs always results in the affirmation of those beliefs. If your goal is to do something like that, pick the beliefs you want to have first. If you want to be Mormon gather their data and use their interpretations. If you want to be a Calvinist use theirs, Roman Catholic ... you get the idea.

Everyone gets what they really want. That which we love least is always forced to conform to that which we love most. Everyone either loves the truth or their beliefs. But the "Many on the Broad path of destruction in Mat. 7 is the same many that believe Jesus is their Lord God and Savior at the end of the chapter to whom Jesus said, "Depart from Me ye who work iniquity for I never knew you."

Everyone using Methodology One, while they will get an unshakeable, unquestionable belief that they have the truth, are really seeing God at work hardening them into what they want to believe because they just love what they want to believe. Everyone picks one, and the Methodology you use proves what camp you are in.
 
Upvote 0

Sidon

Well-Known Member
May 13, 2021
2,073
320
65
Florida
✟17,043.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Philippians 3:
8 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ,

9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,

10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death;

11 in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.

12 Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.

13 Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead,

14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

15 Let us therefore, as many as are mature, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you;

8 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ,


The loss of all things, is Paul referring to "be in the world but not of it"
Its also Paul saying that he has lost himself and "gained Christ", like this...>"it is not I who live, but Christ who lives, in me".

And these things Paul has lost......are.....the desire for things of the world and his own self righteousness,...that he is explaining is to lose "RUBBISH", in comparison to having become a Son of God, based on God making Him "the righteousness of God, in Christ" (Born again).




9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,


Same thing again.
Paul talking about the "rubbish" or the 'dung", Philippians 3 : that is to try to save yourself by trying to be good enough for God to have you. = He won't have you this way.
This is the "error of Cain" as taught by JUDE.... and it is the hyper religious self righteousness of a person who has no understanding of their actual lost condition, that can never become righteous by self effort. = through law and commandment keeping.
This is why Paul is contrasting the religious lost person, with "be found IN HIM". (Born again).
This is to be 'In Christ" and "ONE with God"...."made Righteous".




10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death;

To "Know the power of His resurrection" is to become the "righteousness of God in Christ".
The ""fellowship of His suffering"", is to be born again, as its by the suffering of Christ on the Cross , that we have "fellowship" into this suffering for us, that is our Salvation.
To be "conformed into His death", is to be made alive by the New Birth that is only achieved BY the blood and death of Christ being offered as "the Gift of Salvation".


11 in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.

This is the state of becoming a Son of God.
Jesus Himself is "the Resurrection", and so, that is why the Resurrection occurs for all the born again.
We attain "to the resurrection", by being BORN AGAIN as a "new Creation".
In other words, the same power that caused Jesus to be resurrected, is the same power that causes the New Birth regarding a person's spirit being "born again".
Its this same power that will open Graves and cause the Rapture to occur.



12 Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.

This is the literal "Rapture", that Paul was waiting for, but died instead.
Paul and all the Apostles thought that Jesus was coming back while they were alive.
So, sometimes you read a verse and Paul is talking about that in the verse, which is the context.


13 Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead,

The " IT YET", is the "prize of the High Calling"..
This is the end of our faith, (after we die)(or are Raptured), Its the "inheritance", that is the Heavenly 2nd part of our redemption, that is waiting for the redeemed by the blood of the Lamb.
The 1st part is to be born again, on earth. This is when we become a Son of God and a Joint heir with Christ, and a Heir of God, but there is this 2nd part....
2.) "It has not entered into the heart and mind of the born again.....= the things God has> PREPARED"
See that "prepared"?
That is the heavenly part of our Salvation. That is our "inheritance", that is waiting for all the born again.
Our redemption (born again) is the earthly part of our Salvation.
There is more to come.



14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

The "prize" on earth is to finish this....>"work out your salvation" and become "the fullness of the Stature of Christ".
The heavenly "prize" is this...>"conformed INTO THE IMAGE, of Jesus".



15 Let us therefore, as many as are mature, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you;

Thats not a good translation of the verse...

The accurate translation would be..."like minded". "thus minded"....
And That is not an "attitude",.... that is a FAITH that is related to the renewed mind.
Or as Paul says...>"have the SAME MIND">. referring to all believers having the same theology, belief system, and "mind of Christ".
This is the renewed mind and it is not an "attitude".
It is in fact "walking in the Spirit".
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0