There's something about Mary.......

[prodromos]

Once upon a time, those who knew nothing about something would ask for information; now, in the age of the Internet, they insist on telling those of us who do experience the benefits of her intercession that we don't. One definition of that would be chutzpah.

"Hubris" is the word which comes to my mind.

John

 

[Livindesert]

"Hubris" is the word which comes to my mind.

John

Muslims claim they get prayers answered from thier god also...

 

[prodromos]

Sorry not good enough all reversals still stand.

How specifically are they not good enough? What are the faults in Thekla's arguments?

John

 

[prodromos]

Muslims claim they get prayers answered from thier god also...

We don't claim that Mary is our God.
Our prayers, and those of Mary and the Saints on our behalf are answered not by them but by God.

Do you actually have anything of value to contribute to the discussion?

John

 

[katherine2001]

God can act through whomever He wants--that includes acting through Christ's mother and the saints. For those who will only let God act through ways that they are willing to accept (rather than letting Him act through whatever/whomever He chooses to, it is their loss. A lot of God's blessings and grace get missed that way, but again, it is their loss. Personally, I need all of God's grace that I can get, and I'll take it however He chooses to give it to me.

 

[Standing Up]

-snip-

I am unsure what is 'offensive' to Protestants in the prayer, and surely to suggest that it is 'offensive to all sound Christian feeling' comes pretty close to 'flaming' in that it implies that those of us who pray it lack sound Christian feeling; since it is not my habit to complain to the Mods, I will content myself with pointing out to you, as a respected member of this Forum, that your phraseology lends itself to causing offence; if none was meant, then fair enough; if you meant to cause offence, that is a matter for you and your conscience.-snip-

It wasn't clear that the quote came from Schaff? I know at least one Roman Catholic who regularly quotes his works around GT.

Hmmm, shall we begin banning well-respected books around here and that way we can all opine away forever and ever?

Have fun.

 

[Musa80]

Sorry not good enough all reversals still stand.

Well, that's an example of some rock solid argumentation there, folks.


BTW Livin. does it not seem counterproductive to begin your lifelong career as a heresy fighter by subscribing to a laundry list of heresies yourself? How's that workin out for ya?

 

[Standing Up]

To sit "at the right hand of" denotes position or value.
(To stand at the side of (right) indicates a lower status.)

To say there is some time when Christ does not "sit at the right hand of" means that His status/value will change (ie will be not God).

Re: Matthew 5:18,

It can be said "while heaven and worth will change, the heart of what is the law will maintain entire (is unchanging). To say - for example - that the two greatest commandments will cease to exist means that the core, full love for God and other, will at some time not be. Yet not to love God and other is hell.

Also, Matthew 28:20 is unchanging.

This leaves, in your list, Matthew 1:25 -- to the extent that you argue from the other verses, that there is a reversal of condition is not supported.

Does it matter that Christ stood as Stephen was stoned?

 

[Livindesert]

To sit "at the right hand of" denotes position or value.
(To stand at the side of (right) indicates a lower status.)

To say there is some time when Christ does not "sit at the right hand of" means that His status/value will change (ie will be not God).

According to your logic Jesus never physically rose to the right hand of the Father where he waits untill the second comming.

Mark 16:
19So then the Lord Jesus,(AP) after he had spoken to them,(AQ) was taken up into heaven and(AR) sat down at the right hand of God. 20And they went out and preached everywhere, while(AS) the Lord worked with them and confirmed(AT) the message(AU) by accompanying signs.]]

 

[Livindesert]

Well, that's an example of some rock solid argumentation there, folks.


BTW Livin. does it not seem counterproductive to begin your lifelong career as a heresy fighter by subscribing to a laundry list of heresies yourself? How's that workin out for ya?

I just wish to find true Christianity as it was before the Great Apostasy.

 

[laconicstudent]

I just wish to find true Christianity as it was before the Great Apostasy.

I dunno what this "great apostasy" is, but try here:

NPNF2-14. The Seven Ecumenical Councils | Christian Classics Ethereal Library

 

[Standing Up]

"Hubris" is the word which comes to my mind.

John

Isn't that the definition of very right or very wrong?

 

[Musa80]

I dunno what this "great apostasy" is, but try here:

NPNF2-14. The Seven Ecumenical Councils | Christian Classics Ethereal Library

Ahem. If he and some others would only take a look at those councils, this discussion would end fairly quickly.

From the Fifth Ecumenical Council

VI. IF anyone shall not call in a true acceptation, but only in a false acceptation, the holy, glorious, and ever-virgin Mary, the Mother of God, or shall call her so only in a relative sense, believing that she bare only a simple man and that God the word was not incarnate of her, but that the incarnation of God the Word resulted only from the fact that he united himself to that man who was born [of her];(1) if he shall calumniate the Holy Synod of Chalcedon as though it had asserted the Virgin to be Mother of God according to the impious sense of Theodore; or if anyone shall call her the mother of a man <greek>anqrwpotokon</greek> or the Mother of Christ (X<greek>ristotokon</greek>), as if Christ were not God, and shall not confess that she is exactly and truly the Mother of God, because that God the Word who before all ages was begotten of the Father was in these last days made flesh and born of her, and if anyone shall not confess that in this sense the holy Synod of Chalcedon acknowledged her to be the Mother of God: let him be anathema.

 

[laconicstudent]

You should have bolded the "let him be anathema"

 

[Musa80]

You should have bolded the "let him be anathema"

Indeed

 

[Standing Up]

Ahem. If he and some others would only take a look at those councils, this discussion would end fairly quickly.

You should have bolded the "let him be anathema"

Indeed

If anyone does not anathematize Arius, Eunomius, Macedonius, Apollinaris, Nestorius, Eutyches and Origen, as well as their impious writings, as also all other heretics already condemned and anathematized by the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, and by the aforesaid four Holy Synods and [if anyone does not equally anathematize] all those who have held and hold or who in their impiety persist in holding to the end the same opinion as those heretics just mentioned: let him be anathema.

Before joining the hubristic crowd, one might should understand the whole story.

Any questions?

 

[laconicstudent]

If anyone does not anathematize Arius, Eunomius, Macedonius, Apollinaris, Nestorius, Eutyches and Origen, as well as their impious writings, as also all other heretics already condemned and anathematized by the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, and by the aforesaid four Holy Synods and [if anyone does not equally anathematize] all those who have held and hold or who in their impiety persist in holding to the end the same opinion as those heretics just mentioned: let him be anathema.

Before joining the hubristic crowd, one might should understand the whole story.

Any questions?

I don't get it. What are you trying to communicate?

First off, it makes sense that the Ecumenical Councils would uphold the previous anathemas and canons... Second, what is "hubristics"? I get that it comes from "hubris", but if its supposed to be provocative, its the level of goad I'd expect of a child, so I really don't know what you are trying to say...

 

[Standing Up]

I don't get it. What are you trying to communicate?

First off, it makes sense that the Ecumenical Councils would uphold the previous anathemas and canons... Second, what is "hubristics"? I get that it comes from "hubris", but if its supposed to be provocative, its the level of goad I'd expect of a child, so I really don't know what you are trying to say...

Search back through the councils and synods to find out what was declared heretical and who was anathematized. Then decide whether you want to join that crowd.

Hubristic--Hubris means extreme haughtiness or arrogance. Hubris often indicates a loss of touch with reality and overestimating one's own competence or capabilities, especially for people in positions of power.

 

[laconicstudent]

Search back through the councils and synods to find out what was declared heretical and who was anathematized. Then decide whether you want to join that crowd.

Um, Arius, Nestorius, Eutyches for starters. Exactly which anathemas are supposed to shock me?

Hubristic--Hubris means extreme haughtiness or arrogance. Hubris often indicates a loss of touch with reality and overestimating one's own competence or capabilities, especially for people in positions of power.

Ok?

 

[Standing Up]

Um, Arius, Nestorius, Eutyches for starters. Exactly which anathemas are supposed to shock me?



Ok?

I know the poster meant the insult toward me. No problem. Before folks jump on board with it, however, it's wise to understand from where the bus came and to where it's heading. I'm sure you would agree.

Peace -