There They Stood

[Anto9us]

A while back at a used bookstore -- I saw two different books both entitled HERE I STAND -- one was the very famous biography of Martin Luther by Roland Bainton, the other was the autobiography of John Shelby Spong!

Well, I read neither for a long time -- the Luther biography I let sit a good while because I already had an excellent one by Edith Simon called LUTHER ALIVE -- and I never read the Spong one cuz, well, cuz Spong is a tad liberal for me (That's an understatement).

Anyway, I just finished the Bainton HERE I STAND about Luther, and am now halfway through Spong's autobiography, also called HERE I STAND.

Spong aint no Luther.

I finished the Spong autobiography last night.

From:

HERE I STAND, John Shelby Spong, Harper Collins Publishers, 2000, pg 243

"The Apostles Creed, which was basically shaped at the Council of Nicea in 325, incorporated the developing trinitarian formula. But over that century its use did not preclude a wide variety of interpretations that those who framed the Apostles' Creed to create unity in the newly recognized faith of the empire had not anticipated. Near the end of the fourth century, the Apostles' Creed was expanded to close loopholes and thus to exclude a wide variety of contending points of view. That is why phrases describing Jesus as "God of God", "Light of Light", "very God of very God", "begotten, not made", and "of one substance with the Father" were included in the Nicene Creed. The Creed was becoming more and more convoluted."

OK, what's wrong with this paragraph? Really - I should say - What is RIGHT in it? Hardly anything.

I think the average poster on a Christian message board knows the difference between Apostles and Nicene Creed -- a Bishop for 25 years (at the time of the writing) obviously does not.

Apostles Creed had nothing to do with Council of Nicea in 325 A.D., was formed way earlier than that, origins going back to THE OLD ROMAN SYMBOL around 100 A.D.

Council of Nicea in 325 established first version of -- duh -- the NICENE CREED, expanded in 381 at Council of Constantinople.

This garbage is from a guy who WROTE A BOOK ON THE CREEDS, his book right before his autobiography, and he has the hubris to title his autobiography the same title as a famous biography of Luther. Sheesh!

 

[com7fy8]

Exact same words can have exact opposite meanings.

Here I stand on a nice clean rock.

Here I stand in specialized mud just behind the platform of the cows in the barn.

 

[Bob Crowley]

Apostles Creed had nothing to do with Council of Nicea in 325 A.D., was formed way earlier than that, origins going back to THE OLD ROMAN SYMBOL around 100 A.D.

Council of Nicea in 325 established first version of -- duh -- the NICENE CREED, expanded in 381 at Council of Constantinople.

The Nicene Creed was a response to the heresy of Arianism, as outlined in the text below which I lifted from this site - https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/nicene-creed-written-emperor-shawn-thomas-norris

The Nicene Creed was adopted in the face of the Arian controversy. Arius, a Libyan presbyter in Alexandria, had declared that although the Son was divine, he was a created being and therefore not co-essential with the Father, and “there was when he was not”.

This made Jesus less than the Father, which posed soteriological challenges for the nascent doctrine of the Trinitas. Arius’s teaching provoked a serious crisis.

Constantine removed Arius and some priests who supported him from their positions, and were only allowed back into communion when they publicly stated their accord with the Nicene Creed. So basically the outcome of the conference probably exceeded even Constantine’s hopes.

That's why there's so much emphasis in the Nicene Creed on the fact Christ is as much God as the Father and Holy Spirit - it was to shout loud and clear the Arian belief was heresy -

.... We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:....

Compare this to the shorter Apostles Creed which had been the church standard up till then.

... I believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,...

Both creeds are recognised by the Catholic Church, and while our church for some reason seems to mostly use the Apostles Creed during the mass, a lot of Catholic Churches use the Nicene Creed.

As a side note, many if not all a lot of Church Councils are called when there's perceived to be a crisis of some sort, or something needs to be addressed eg. the Council of Nicea. That's why they're so irregular.

 

[Anto9us]

I too, Bob, grew up with Apostles Creed heard more often than Nicene - don't know why.