There simply were seven churches...

shturt678

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When I got save as a Baptist I thought that we had the corner on 'truth' and felt all the other denominations as inferior, and especially the Catholics, who I could not imagine as going to heaven. My pastor is a Pentecostal Holiness pastor and thought for years that the Pentecostal Holiness church had the corner on everything. My dad dates a Lutheran gal who cannot believe that those outside the Lutheran church will make it to heaven.

I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. - Revelation 3:18


When Christ Jesus applies the eyesalve we see things from a different perspective. That even, maybe, those of other sects of Christianity may have virtues that we have not even approached!

We just have o "buy," agape that Isa.55:1 & Matt.13:44. I'm broke so buying for nothing is sweet Baptist music to my ears. Christians think I'm insane already, and if I told them we have to buy a priceless Gospel with nothing, commitment papers next on the agenda. You know me, ie, now the uncomfortable part: We will agree that we won't buy with work-righteousness, ie, I see too much of religious righteous already in/out of the Churches. My end point is "to find," ie, the one genuine way or ways of "born again" receiving the one genuine interpretation of Matt.13:44 and understanding that the "eyesalve" = Word, not the Holy Spirit, resulting in Kingdom acquired and haven't bitten into IIThess.2:10 like most unknowingly have. btw "Treasure" hidden in plain sight, ie, hope I bump into it before I croak.
 
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rockytopva

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Where do you get your information? There is no mention of a "second work of grace" in the letter to Philadelphia.

Wesleyan doctrine...

http://www.christianforums.com/t7757196/#post63518100


To acquire sanctification was to do so with Philadelphia, or a brotherly love. If you had not love and the sweet spirit then you were not sainctified. These methods were taught this way in the Pentecostal Holiness church, a daughter of the Methodist church, to me by the old timers.

The character of a Philadelphian by John Wesley...

http://new.gbgm-umc.org/umhistory/wesley/character/
 
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PreachingChristCrucified

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Wesleyan doctrine...

http://www.christianforums.com/t7757196/#post63518100


To acquire sanctification was to do so with Philadelphia, or a brotherly love. If you had not love and the sweet spirit then you were not sainctified. These methods were taught this way in the Pentecostal Holiness church, a daughter of the Methodist church, to me by the old timers.

The character of a Philadelphian by John Wesley...

Global Ministries - The Character of a Methodist by John Wesley

Again, there is no mention of "a second work of grace" in the letter to Philadelphia.
 
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rockytopva

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Again, there is no mention of "a second work of grace" in the letter to Philadelphia.

Philadelphia itself is translated 'Brotherly Love' in the Greek. If you read the following account by John Wesley you will find the love topic over and over...

Global Ministries - The Character of a Methodist by John Wesley

5. "What then is the mark? Who is a Methodist, according to your own account?" I answer: A Methodist is one who has "the love of God shed abroad in his heart by the Holy Ghost given unto him;" one who "loves the Lord his God with all his heart, and with all his soul, and with all his mind, and with all his strength. God is the joy of his heart, and the desire of his soul; which is constantly crying out, "Whom have I in heaven but thee? and there is none upon earth that I desire beside thee! My God and my all! Thou art the strength of my heart, and my portion for ever!"

9. And while he thus always exercises his love to God, by praying without ceasing, rejoicing evermore, and in everything giving thanks, this commandment is written in his heart, "That he who loveth God, love his brother also." And he accordingly loves his neighbour as himself; he loves every man as his own soul. His heart is full of love to all mankind, to every child of "the Father of the spirits of all flesh." That a man is not personally known to him, is no bar to his love; no, nor that he is known to be such as he approves not, that he repays hatred for his good-will. For he "loves his enemies;" yea, and the enemies of God, "the evil and the unthankful." And if it be not in his power to "do good to them that hate him," yet he ceases not to pray for them, though they continue to spurn his love, and still "despitefully use him and persecute him."

10. For he is "pure in heart." The love of God has purified his heart from all revengeful passions, from envy, malice, and wrath, from every unkind temper or malign affection. It hath cleansed him from pride and haughtiness of spirit, whereof alone cometh contention. And he hath now "put on bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering:" So that he "forbears and forgives, if he had a quarrel against any; even as God in Christ hath forgiven him." And indeed all possible ground for contention, on his part, is utterly cut off. For none can take from him what he desires; seeing he "loves not the world, nor" any of "the things of the world;" being now "crucified to the world, and the world crucified to him;" being dead to all that is in the world, both to "the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eye, and the pride of life." For "all his desire is unto God, and to the remembrance of his name."

16. Lastly. As he has time, he "does good unto all men;" unto neighbours and strangers, friends and enemies: And that in every possible kind; not only to their bodies, by "feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting those that are sick or in prison;" but much more does he labour to do good to their souls, as of the ability which God giveth; to awaken those that sleep in death; to bring those who are awakened to the atoning blood, that, "being justified by faith, they may have peace with God;" and to provoke those who have peace with God to abound more in love and in good works. And he is willing to "spend and be spent herein," even "to be offered up on the sacrifice and service of their faith," so they may "all come unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ."

17. These are the principles and practices of our sect; these are the marks of a true Methodist. By these alone do those who are in derision so called, desire to be distinguished from other men. If any man say, "Why, these are only the common fundamental principles of Christianity!" thou hast said; so I mean; this is the very truth; I know they are no other; and I would to God both thou and all men knew, that I, and all who follow my judgment, do vehemently refuse to be distinguished from other men, by any but the common principles of Christianity, -- the plain, old Christianity that I teach, renouncing and detesting all other marks of distinction. And whosoever is what I preach, (let him be called what he will, for names change not the nature of things,) he is a Christian, not in name only, but in heart and in life. He is inwardly and outwardly conformed to the will of God, as revealed in the written word. He thinks, speaks, and lives, according to the method laid down in the revelation of Jesus Christ. His soul is renewed after the image of God, in righteousness and in all true holiness. And having the mind that was in Christ, he so walks as Christ also walked.
 
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shturt678

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Wesleyan doctrine...

http://www.christianforums.com/t7757196/#post63518100


To acquire sanctification was to do so with Philadelphia, or a brotherly love. If you had not love and the sweet spirit then you were not sainctified. These methods were taught this way in the Pentecostal Holiness church, a daughter of the Methodist church, to me by the old timers.

The character of a Philadelphian by John Wesley...

Global Ministries - The Character of a Methodist by John Wesley

.....to acquire sanctification in the sense of ICor.6:11, great! Just ol' old Philadelphian Jack type that agapes you.
 
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rockytopva

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And in this definition we find the difference between the Philadelphian and the Laodicean...

Global Ministries - The Character of a Methodist by John Wesley

15. Nor do the customs of the world at all hinder his "running the race that is set before him." He knows that vice does not lose its nature, though it becomes ever so fashionable; and remembers, that "every man is to give an account of himself to God." He cannot, therefore, "follow" even "a multitude to do evil." He cannot "fare sumptuously every day," or "make provision for the flesh to fulfil the lusts thereof." He cannot "lay up treasures upon earth," any more than he can take fire into his bosom. He cannot "adorn himself," on any pretence, "with gold or costly apparel." He cannot join in or countenance any diversion which has the least tendency to vice of any kind. He cannot "speak evil" of his neighbour, any more than he can lie either for God or man. He cannot utter an unkind word of any one; for love keeps the door of his lips. He cannot speak "idle words;" "no corrupt communication" ever "comes out of his mouth," as is all that "which is" not "good to the use of edifying," not "fit to minister grace to the hearers." But "whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are" justly "of good report," he thinks, and speaks, and acts, "adorning the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ in all things."

So as today's TV evangelists are laying up much treasures for themselves, they are not Philadelphians but Laodiceans.
 
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PreachingChristCrucified

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Philadelphia itself is translated 'Brotherly Love' in the Greek. If you read the following account by John Wesley you will find the love topic over and over...

Global Ministries - The Character of a Methodist by John Wesley

5. "What then is the mark? Who is a Methodist, according to your own account?" I answer: A Methodist is one who has "the love of God shed abroad in his heart by the Holy Ghost given unto him;" one who "loves the Lord his God with all his heart, and with all his soul, and with all his mind, and with all his strength. God is the joy of his heart, and the desire of his soul; which is constantly crying out, "Whom have I in heaven but thee? and there is none upon earth that I desire beside thee! My God and my all! Thou art the strength of my heart, and my portion for ever!"

9. And while he thus always exercises his love to God, by praying without ceasing, rejoicing evermore, and in everything giving thanks, this commandment is written in his heart, "That he who loveth God, love his brother also." And he accordingly loves his neighbour as himself; he loves every man as his own soul. His heart is full of love to all mankind, to every child of "the Father of the spirits of all flesh." That a man is not personally known to him, is no bar to his love; no, nor that he is known to be such as he approves not, that he repays hatred for his good-will. For he "loves his enemies;" yea, and the enemies of God, "the evil and the unthankful." And if it be not in his power to "do good to them that hate him," yet he ceases not to pray for them, though they continue to spurn his love, and still "despitefully use him and persecute him."

10. For he is "pure in heart." The love of God has purified his heart from all revengeful passions, from envy, malice, and wrath, from every unkind temper or malign affection. It hath cleansed him from pride and haughtiness of spirit, whereof alone cometh contention. And he hath now "put on bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering:" So that he "forbears and forgives, if he had a quarrel against any; even as God in Christ hath forgiven him." And indeed all possible ground for contention, on his part, is utterly cut off. For none can take from him what he desires; seeing he "loves not the world, nor" any of "the things of the world;" being now "crucified to the world, and the world crucified to him;" being dead to all that is in the world, both to "the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eye, and the pride of life." For "all his desire is unto God, and to the remembrance of his name."

16. Lastly. As he has time, he "does good unto all men;" unto neighbours and strangers, friends and enemies: And that in every possible kind; not only to their bodies, by "feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting those that are sick or in prison;" but much more does he labour to do good to their souls, as of the ability which God giveth; to awaken those that sleep in death; to bring those who are awakened to the atoning blood, that, "being justified by faith, they may have peace with God;" and to provoke those who have peace with God to abound more in love and in good works. And he is willing to "spend and be spent herein," even "to be offered up on the sacrifice and service of their faith," so they may "all come unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ."

17. These are the principles and practices of our sect; these are the marks of a true Methodist. By these alone do those who are in derision so called, desire to be distinguished from other men. If any man say, "Why, these are only the common fundamental principles of Christianity!" thou hast said; so I mean; this is the very truth; I know they are no other; and I would to God both thou and all men knew, that I, and all who follow my judgment, do vehemently refuse to be distinguished from other men, by any but the common principles of Christianity, -- the plain, old Christianity that I teach, renouncing and detesting all other marks of distinction. And whosoever is what I preach, (let him be called what he will, for names change not the nature of things,) he is a Christian, not in name only, but in heart and in life. He is inwardly and outwardly conformed to the will of God, as revealed in the written word. He thinks, speaks, and lives, according to the method laid down in the revelation of Jesus Christ. His soul is renewed after the image of God, in righteousness and in all true holiness. And having the mind that was in Christ, he so walks as Christ also walked.

Other Churches teach "brotherly love" such as the Lutheran Church that I attend.

This does not require a "second work of grace".
 
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rockytopva

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.....to acquire sanctification in the sense of ICor.6:11, great! Just ol' old Philadelphian Jack type that agapes you.

The domain of the Philadelphian church...

John Bunyan
Ana-Baptists
John Wesley
William Seymour
Smith Wigglesworth

To name a few. The difference being the Philadelphian was persecuted by his fellow Christians and would not defend himself.

The Sardiseans and Thyatieans were your persecutors...
The Philadelphians were your persecutees
 
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rockytopva

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Other Churches teach "brotherly love" such as the Lutheran Church that I attend.

This does not require a "second work of grace".

The Lutheran church killed and persecuted Anabaptists... Not Philadelphian!
 
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PreachingChristCrucified

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The Lutheran church killed and persecuted Anabaptists... Not Philadelphian!

My family has been attending our Lutheran Church since the 1950's. Brotherly love is taught there. And no one in our congregation has ever persecuted an Anabaptist.
 
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rockytopva

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Google "Lutherans Seek Forgiveness for Persecution of Anabaptists" and see your return.

Which was the right thing to do. It is important, when examining the churches, to see the spirit of the age. The Europeans were possessed with control and domination and it was an insult to them not to go along with the religious teachings of their sect!
 
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PreachingChristCrucified

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There are different sects of Lutheranism. The video you showed is of a Bishop of the ELCA. I don't belong to that Church, I go to the LCMS. The persecution of the Anabaptists happened clear back in the 1500's. The LCMS did not even exist at that time. Again no one in my Lutheran Church has persecuted Anabaptists.
 
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rockytopva

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There are different sects of Lutheranism. The video you showed is of a Bishop of the ELCA. I don't belong to that Church, I go to the LCMS. The persecution of the Anabaptists happened clear back in the 1500's. The LCMS did not even exist at that time. Again no one in my Lutheran Church has persecuted Anabaptists.

In which, if a brotherly love exists in your church, you may be Philadelphian as well. There also may be instances where a church is influenced by multiple church ages. I support the BBNRadio.org, which I have often thought as 40% sardisean and 60% philadelphian.

I have presented the seven churches to the best of my ability. The mystery of the seven churches belongs to Christ Jesus. My view is from a peanut mind and limited eyesight. Christ Jesus has the full view and mindset of the seven churches. I only attempt to bring a perspective from my experience. Christ Jesus did have the ability to divine the future, much more than Lucifer, who at one time showed the Lord the kingdoms of this world as in a moment ("And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time." - Luke 4:5).
 
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shturt678

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The domain of the Philadelphian church...

John Bunyan
Ana-Baptists
John Wesley
William Seymour
Smith Wigglesworth

To name a few. The difference being the Philadelphian was persecuted by his fellow Christians and would not defend himself.

The Sardiseans and Thyatieans were your persecutors...
The Philadelphians were your persecutees

Sorry to say, list has to be redone. Noting the door that has been opened to bring a 'water baptismal rebirth' to others? - I note the list contains only those that do bring a 'spiritual baptismal rebirth' to others? I really think it boils down more with the 'key' issue and 'keeping the Word' issue. Now if the door is slammed shut on one's fingers, owe! I hope the 'door' is not slammed shut in today's time? btw 'spiritual baptismal rebirth' in Philadelphia, I don't think so, ie,water baptismal rebirth is the only way one can enter the Kingdom through the opened narrow door. Just ol' old Jack trying to squeeze through that narrow door before slams shut.
 
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shturt678

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I do nothing but :hug: and :kiss: the few Ana-baptist over here, ie, you had me sweating on that one. Also I'm a pre-1929 ELCA, now can stop wiping the sweat from my forehead - wow! Also agape those LCMSers, have one good recent graduate of LCMS as a good friend - grad. about 2003, ie, youngster; however great spirit, and humble. Have WELS over here too and he finally tolerates me. Oh, enough about me.
 
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rockytopva

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I do nothing but :hug: and :kiss: the few Ana-baptist over here, ie, you had me sweating on that one. Also I'm a pre-1929 ELCA, now can stop wiping the sweat from my forehead - wow! Also agape those LCMSers, have one good recent graduate of LCMS as a good friend - grad. about 2003, ie, youngster; however great spirit, and humble. Have WELS over here too and he finally tolerates me. Oh, enough about me.

Most true AnaBaptsits, like the Mennonite and Amish, do not have electricity in their homes.
 
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rockytopva

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I believe this is Samuel Mullet's bunch of 'beard cutting' Amish. Now that was not a very Philadelphian thing to do! I would wake up during the night and see that bunch looking down on me! ^_^

images


Most Sardisean in behavior!
 
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