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There shall not be left here one stone upon another...

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Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Mar 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Luk 21:6 [As for] these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Does anyone have a biblical explanation for what this might mean?
 

HisdaughterJen

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Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Mar 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Luk 21:6 [As for] these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Does anyone have a biblical explanation for what this might mean?

Mat 24:1And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to [him] for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.





Dan 9:26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.











There is no temple...not one stone was left on another as of 70AD.
 
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If you click the picture it end with this:

"All that remained of the Second Temple was a portion of the Western Wall (Hebrew: ha kotel ha-ma'aravi, also called the Wailing Wall), which continues to be the focus of Jewish aspirations and pilgrimage. Made part of the wall surrounding the Muslim Dome of the Rock and Al-Aqsa Mosque in AD 691, it returned to Jewish control in 1967."

Sorry I'm too new to be able to quote the picture (don't have 50 posts). It's the first image above.
 
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HisdaughterJen

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If you click the picture it end with this:

"All that remained of the Second Temple was a portion of the Western Wall (Hebrew: ha kotel ha-ma'aravi, also called the Wailing Wall), which continues to be the focus of Jewish aspirations and pilgrimage. Made part of the wall surrounding the Muslim Dome of the Rock and Al-Aqsa Mosque in AD 691, it returned to Jewish control in 1967."

Sorry I'm too new to be able to quote the picture (don't have 50 posts). It's the first image above.

If the Western Wall is still considered a part of the temple, then it will fall.

And I think I know when:

Eze 38:18And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, [that] my fury shall come up in my face.

Eze 38:19For in my jealousy [and] in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;

Eze 38:20So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that [are] upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.







Zec 14:4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which [is] before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, [and there shall be] a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.





Rev 6:12And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;




Amo 8:8"Will not the land tremble for this, and all who live in it mourn? The whole land will rise like the Nile; it will be stirred up and then sink like the river of Egypt.
Amo 8:9"In that day," declares the Sovereign Lord, "I will make the sun go down at noon and darken the earth in broad daylight.
 
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HisdaughterJen

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Thanks for the verses. I tend to believe/understand the bible to be a spiritual book. Christ spoke in parables (Mat 13:34) and he didn’t always explain the parable (Pro 25:2).

Eze 20:49 Then said I, Ah Lord GOD! they say of me, Doth he not speak parables?

:thumbsup:
 
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HisdaughterJen

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:thumbsup: Back at you Jen.

Then maybe the stones in the temple could be a representation of something spiritually.


hmmm....if it were spiritual, it would refer to Israel because it is referring to Israel's temple. I think it may just mean their desolation until the end...both of the temple and the people...and then God restores them and they build a new temple (Ezek 40-48).

But, we are also symbolic stones making up the temple of God.

1Pe 2:5you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

Rev 3:12Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name.
 
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HisdaughterJen

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Mat 26:61 And said, This [fellow] said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.

They misunderstood this to be the physical literal temple (and not a parable).


Yes, that's certainly true but it was the disciples who were pointing at the buildings and the temple saying how pretty they are and Jesus said, "not one stone will be left on another" and it came to pass about 40 years later.
 
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BrotherDave

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We know when this will happen from Matt 24:3 “…and what shall be the sign of thy coming and the end of the world?” So this cannot refer to 70 AD. Also, in Matt 24:1 Jesus saw “the buildings of the temple. This passage is not speaking of just the temple itself, but of all the related "buildings," which would include the Western Wailing Wall and the temple foundation because both of these were integral parts of that same stone structure. Therefore, we can know for a certainty that Luke 21:5-6 and Matthew 24:1-2 are not speaking of the destruction of the physical temple in Jerusalem in A.D. 70

In I Cor 3 God explains how every believer is gold, silver, and precious stones in the temple of God. Each true believer in a church is a living precious stone that has been built into the spiritual temple structure (1 Peter 2:5). However, Christ prophesized that the time would come when there would be not one stone on another. The setting of this time is near the end of the world. Matt 24 describes what happens during this time as God’s judgment falls upon the churches (see also I Peter 4:17).Jesus tells us that the fist sign of this occurring is that men will come as false Christ’s and deceive many (Matt 24:5). “Not one stone upon another” means that there shall not remain one church that is recognized by God as a part of the spiritual temple, or kingdom of God because the Holy Spirit has been removed (II Thess 2:4)

As much as we don’t want to admit it, this ties in perfectly with the fact that Christ will turn away many who truly believed they were doing His will and thought they were safe (Phil 3:18, Mat 7:13,22-23, 8:15-24, Matt 15:8, 24:4, Luke 13:27, 2 Tim 4:3, I Thess 5:3). But in reality they were following false gospels which cannot provide salvation (Gal 1:9).

This is very similar to the transition from the Synagogues to the NT churches. This was a very traumatic event. Their spiritual leaders were filled with anger at those who left the synagogues to follow Christ. But, never a gain would true believers be found in the synagogues.

However, there was a major problem that continued in churches. The problem was a lack of faithfulness to the teachings of the Bible. God tells us about this in Revelation 2 and Revelation 3, where the Bible speaks about the seven churches that flourished even before the Bible was completed. But they were then destroyed.

The spiritual situation that prevails throughout the churches in many ways parallels the situation that prevailed during the 344 years that Judah existed as a nation. Judah had its high places. They were small places of worship constructed on a convenient hill. But Jehovah was not worshipped there. They were places where false gods were worshipped. Thus, Judah was engaging in spiritual harlotry and they wound up being destroyed.

Amazingly, the same situation prevailed throughout the church age. Doctrines that are held and taught by churches that are not faithful to the Bible are the equivalent of those Old Testament high places. This is true because any church doctrine that is obeyed by the members of the church is an act of worship of the one who commanded that this doctrine be obeyed. If a congregation obeys doctrines that were designed in the minds of church theologians, and those doctrines do not come from the Bible, then in a real sense, the minds of those theologians are being worshipped. Obedience to that false doctrine becomes the equivalent of a high place of the Old Testament.

So we can understand how “no stone is left upon another that shall not be thrown down” near the end of time. Means that due to the churches pride and lack of faithfulness, God stops using them and uses individual believers to complete the task of bringing the gospel into the world while allowing false gospels to spread to like wild fire throughout the church. This is part of His judgment process. This is why it is so important for us to test our understanding against what the bible alone is telling us.

2 Tim 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,

2 Pet 3:16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

I Th 5:3 the shall say peace and safety, then sudden destruction

One last comment: The church referenced in Matt 16:18, that "the gates of Hell shall not prevail against" is the spiritual church mentioned earlier of which all truly saved individuals are a part of at the moment God saves them.

 
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We know when this will happen from Matt 24:3 “…and what shall be the sign of thy coming and the end of the world?” So this cannot refer to 70 AD. Also, in Matt 24:1 Jesus saw “the buildings of the temple. This passage is not speaking of just the temple itself, but of all the related "buildings," which would include the Western Wailing Wall and the temple foundation because both of these were integral parts of that same stone structure. Therefore, we can know for a certainty that Luke 21:5-6 and Matthew 24:1-2 are not speaking of the destruction of the physical temple in Jerusalem in A.D. 70

In I Cor 3 God explains how every believer is gold, silver, and precious stones in the temple of God. Each true believer in a church is a living precious stone that has been built into the spiritual temple structure (1 Peter 2:5). However, Christ prophesized that the time would come when there would be not one stone on another. The setting of this time is near the end of the world. Matt 24 describes what happens during this time as God’s judgment falls upon the churches (see also I Peter 4:17).Jesus tells us that the fist sign of this occurring is that men will come as false Christ’s and deceive many (Matt 24:5). “Not one stone upon another” means that there shall not remain one church that is recognized by God as a part of the spiritual temple, or kingdom of God because the Holy Spirit has been removed (II Thess 2:4)

As much as we don’t want to admit it, this ties in perfectly with the fact that Christ will turn away many who truly believed they were doing His will and thought they were safe (Phil 3:18, Mat 7:13,22-23, 8:15-24, Matt 15:8, 24:4, Luke 13:27, 2 Tim 4:3, I Thess 5:3). But in reality they were following false gospels which cannot provide salvation (Gal 1:9).

This is very similar to the transition from the Synagogues to the NT churches. This was a very traumatic event. Their spiritual leaders were filled with anger at those who left the synagogues to follow Christ. But, never a gain would true believers be found in the synagogues.

However, there was a major problem that continued in churches. The problem was a lack of faithfulness to the teachings of the Bible. God tells us about this in Revelation 2 and Revelation 3, where the Bible speaks about the seven churches that flourished even before the Bible was completed. But they were then destroyed.

The spiritual situation that prevails throughout the churches in many ways parallels the situation that prevailed during the 344 years that Judah existed as a nation. Judah had its high places. They were small places of worship constructed on a convenient hill. But Jehovah was not worshipped there. They were places where false gods were worshipped. Thus, Judah was engaging in spiritual harlotry and they wound up being destroyed.

Amazingly, the same situation prevailed throughout the church age. Doctrines that are held and taught by churches that are not faithful to the Bible are the equivalent of those Old Testament high places. This is true because any church doctrine that is obeyed by the members of the church is an act of worship of the one who commanded that this doctrine be obeyed. If a congregation obeys doctrines that were designed in the minds of church theologians, and those doctrines do not come from the Bible, then in a real sense, the minds of those theologians are being worshipped. Obedience to that false doctrine becomes the equivalent of a high place of the Old Testament.

So we can understand how “no stone is left upon another that shall not be thrown down” near the end of time. Means that due to the churches pride and lack of faithfulness, God stops using them and uses individual believers to complete the task of bringing the gospel into the world while allowing false gospels to spread to like wild fire throughout the church. This is part of His judgment process. This is why it is so important for us to test our understanding against what the bible alone is telling us.

2 Tim 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,

2 Pet 3:16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

I Th 5:3 the shall say peace and safety, then sudden destruction

One last comment: The church referenced in Matt 16:18, that "the gates of Hell shall not prevail against" is the spiritual church mentioned earlier of which all truly saved individuals are a part of at the moment God saves them.


Thanks for the post. I couldn't have said it better myself.
 
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Gary777

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Its good to know, that when Jesus prophecied that not one stone will be left upon another, the part of the western wall standing after ad70 doesnt contradict that word, as some would think. Jesus talked about the temple construcion, but this wall was a part of Herods expantion and not a part of the temple itself. Even tho it is a remaineder from the second temple that stood there in Jesus' time, it is not actually a part of the temple.

heres THE classic webcam: http://www.jewishstreet.com/controlkotel/index.cfm?affid=18
 
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eyzonthepriz

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Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Mar 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Luk 21:6 [As for] these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Does anyone have a biblical explanation for what this might mean?
Unfortunately I too cant post because I'm a newbie. If you pm me I can send you a sermon series that will lay this all out for you. Anyway, in 70 A.D. the romans destroyed the temple by setting it on fire and knocking it down. Since the temple was laiden with gold the fire melted it sending the hot liquid into the rocky remains. The roman soldiers were not the best paid army or the stupidist either. They over turned every rock and pebble to get every last piece of gold. They even dug up the foundations. Thats where "There shall not be one stone left upon another" comes in.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Mat 24:1And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to [him] for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.


There is no temple...not one stone was left on another as of 70AD.
The smoke is only visible if ya put on your "spiritual" goggles :thumbsup:

Reve 19:3 And a second-time they have declared "allelouia and the Smoke of Her is ascending into the Ages of the Ages".

Revelation 14:11 And the Smoke of the tormenting of Them is ascending into Ages to-Ages.
 
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Codger

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Nonsense, the Temple was totally destroyed in 70AD just like Jesus said it would be. Every last stone was cast down. What is being called the "Temple Mount" today is none other than the Roman Fortress Antonia. All you have to do is read Josephus, which proves this. The problem today is that the Jewish authority has trashed Josephus and other historical sources and would rather rely on scant archeological findings, which are being misinterpreted. I will take the the words of an eyewitness like Josephus over any 21st century western speculation. The so called "Wailing Wall" is just a part of the hated Roman City of Fort Antonia. It is being used as a political and religious rallying point to unify Israel - a kind of "Green blanket" if you will.

For example: Josephus records the testimony of Eleazar [73AD] who was the General at Masada. He lamented in Josephus VII. 8,7...

"And where is now that great city, [Jerusalem] the metropolis of the Jewish nation, which was fortified by so many walls round about, which had so many fortresses and large towers to defend it, which could hardly contain the instruments prepared for the war, and which had so many ten thousands of men to fight for it? Where is this city that was believed to have God himself inhabiting therein? It is now demolished to the very foundations, and hath nothing but that monument of it preserved, I mean the camp [Fortress Antonia] of those [Romans] that hath destroyed it, which still dwells upon its [Jerusalem's] ruins; some unfortunate old men also lie upon the ashes of the temple, and a few women are there preserved alive by the enemy, for our bitter shame and reproach."

The real and totally destroyed Temple Mount was a cube of 600' X 600' x 600'. The wall on the SW corner of the Temple was said to be 300 cubits in height or 450 feet - a dizzying height in any time. [Pinnacle].

Historically, the Romans remained at Fort Antonia for some 200 years after the destruction of Jerusalem.

Larry
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Nonsense, the Temple was totally destroyed in 70AD just like Jesus said it would be. Every last stone was cast down. For example: Josephus records the testimony of Eleazar [73AD] who was the General at Masada. He lamented in Josephus VII. 8,7...

"And where is now that great city, [Jerusalem] the metropolis of the Jewish nation, which was fortified by so many walls round about, which had so many fortresses and large towers to defend it, which could hardly contain the instruments prepared for the war, and which had so many ten thousands of men to fight for it? Where is this city that was believed to have God himself inhabiting therein? It is now demolished to the very foundations, and hath nothing but that monument of it preserved, I mean the camp [Fortress Antonia] of those [Romans] that hath destroyed it, which still dwells upon its [Jerusalem's] ruins; some unfortunate old men also lie upon the ashes of the temple, and a few women are there preserved alive by the enemy, for our bitter shame and reproach."


Historically, the Romans remained at Fort Antonia for some 200 years after the destruction of Jerusalem.

Larry
:thumbsup: Great post!!!

Zeph 1:16 A day of trumpet and alarm Against the fortified cities And against the towers the lofty ones. 17 "I will bring distress upon adam and they shall walk like blind men because they have sinned against YHWH;

Reve 19:3 And a second-time they have declared "allelouia and the Smoke of Her is ascending into the Ages of the Ages".

http://www.davieapostolicchurch.com/studies/destuct/

.......The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins

Before their final demolition, however, Titus took a survey of the city and its fortifications ; and, while contemplating their impregnable strength, could not help ascribing his success to the peculiar interposition of the ALMIGHTY HIMSELF. "Had not God himself (exclaimed he) aided out operations, and driven the Jews from their fortresses, it would have been absolutely impossible to have taken them ; for what could men, and the force of engines, have done against such towers as these ?"
 
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eyzonthepriz

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Unfortunately I too cant post because I'm a newbie. If you pm me I can send you a sermon series that will lay this all out for you. Anyway, in 70 A.D. the romans destroyed the temple by setting it on fire and knocking it down. Since the temple was laiden with gold the fire melted it sending the hot liquid into the rocky remains. The roman soldiers were not the best paid army or the stupidist either. They over turned every rock and pebble to get every last piece of gold. They even dug up the foundations. Thats where "There shall not be one stone left upon another" comes in.
I hit 50 posts heres the link. Its "The Witness Of 70 A.D.". parts 6, 7, and 8 are in my opinion the best but the whole series is worth listening to.
http://www.letgodbetrue.com/sermons/sermons.php?year=05
 
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Gary777

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Isn't the foundation part of the temple?

In my opinion, the bible only contradicts itself in the eyes of the one with the wrong hermeneutic.

The western wall is not the foundation of the herodian temple at all. The foundation is WAY belov that surface, and you can see some of it trough the tunnels (been there done that, i was there after the opening in 1996 and before araFAT got it all closed again.) It is not even part of the orignial temple wall. It is part of an outer wall that supported the temple structutre. IT has no religious meaning, neither to jews or anyone else.
However, in front of the western wall is the closest point to where the ark stood that jews can pray today. Thats why they pray there. It is not the wall they are facing but the ark that stood in that direction.
Traditionally however, Jews does teach that God protected this wall from being destroyed in ad 70, so it is a sign that Gods hand was in it. So in that way its kinda holy, but what in Jerusalem isnt?

I can give you hundreds of quotes from jewish sources for this, but this is not a hidden truth lots of jewish rabbinic articles wil proove this too you trough a simple google search.

FOr me, i dont care so much, but if the western wall actually was part of the temple, then Jesus prediction would be false or at least not fulfilled in ad 70. Preachers today use this at least in two ways. Some try to explain that arabs hundreds of years later dismantled the wall, stole the gold that was on the stones and then it was rebuildt. THat is not an acceptable fulfilment (and it is very unlikely that they did this, some of these stones are over 100 tons!) to a preterists view since Jesus clearly said that it would happen in that generation.
Others use it as a proof that the destruction of Jerusalem in ad 70 wasnt what jesus predicted, but that the temple will be rebuildt, and that another horrible holocaust will happen where not a stone will be left on another. They are called premill dispies! Both of these are wrong, because what Jesus said would happen, happen when it was supposed to, in that very generation.
 
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