There must be a twisting of Scripture to deceive God's people.

Sophrosyne · Mar 17, 2014

maco said:
Sophrosyne, SilverBlade, LarryP2

With the hundreds of verses that say the seventh day is the Lord's day I am still waiting for your one verse that tells us to honor the first day because of Jesus' resurrection. Just one verse is all I ask. We are to be people of the Bible aren't we?

I'm still waiting for proof Christians must worship on Saturdays, and that the Sabbath is valid for them to keep beyond personal choice.

Sophrosyne · Mar 17, 2014

maco said:
So the Bible gives you no authority for gathering on Sunday because Jesus was resurrected on Sunday? Well now, it seems we have a problem here. Since your beliefs are not Scriptural you must be following man made tradition.

"Sunday is founded, not of scripture, but on tradition, and is distinctly a Catholic institution. As there is no scripture for the transfer of the day of rest from the last to the first day of the week, Protestants ought to keep their Sabbath on Saturday and thus leave Catholics in full possession of Sunday." Catholic Record, September 17, 1893.

And what did Jesus say about making void a commandment of God for man made traditions? He said your worship was worthless. Hmmm! Very interesting. [FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Now who is the real cult here?

[/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Question - Which is the Sabbath day?[/FONT]
Answer - Saturday is the Sabbath day.
Question - Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?

Answer - We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 364), transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday. The Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50, 3rd ed.

Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday (Sabbath), but shall work on that Day: but the Lord's Day, they shall especially honour; and as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be shut out from Christ. Council of Laodicea (circa 364 AD)

"The Bible says, Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day. The Catholic church says, No! By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day, and command you to keep the first day of the week. And lo, the entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic church!" Father Enright, C.S.S.R. of the Redemptoral College, Kansas City, Mo., History of the Sabbath, p. 802

"Sunday is our mark of authority...The church is above the Bible, and this transference of sabbath observance is proof of that fact." The Catholic Record, London, Ontario, September 1, 1923.[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]
[/FONT]

I'm not Catholic.... try again

maco · Mar 17, 2014

Sophrosyne said:
I'm not Catholic.... try again

You can worship the Beast or it's image. Now you may not be worshiping the Beast but you are most certainly worshiping its image.

maco · Mar 17, 2014

Sophrosyne said:
I'm still waiting for proof Christians must worship on Saturdays, and that the Sabbath is valid for them to keep beyond personal choice.

Personal choice is the foundation of the new birth. Personal choice is motivated by love through grace, not Law through fear. Praise God you have some glimmer of light that can glow brighter each day.

Sophrosyne · Mar 17, 2014

maco said:
You can worship the Beast or it's image. Now you may not be worshiping the Beast but you are most certainly worshiping its image.

No thanks, you have to twist scripture really hard to even consider such nonsense.

Sophrosyne · Mar 17, 2014

maco said:
Personal choice is the foundation of the new birth. Personal choice is motivated by love through grace, not Law through fear. Praise God you have some glimmer of light that can glow brighter each day.

Like early Christians chose to worship sunday to allow those Jews who were still unable to give up worshiping saturday the ability to worship both days, one with the Jews and the other with the rest of Christianity.

maco · Mar 17, 2014

Sophrosyne said:
Like early Christians chose to worship sunday to allow those Jews who were still unable to give up worshiping saturday the ability to worship both days, one with the Jews and the other with the rest of Christianity.

No biblical support for Sunday means no biblical support. The support for Sunday comes through the Beast and its image, not the Bible.

"Sunday is founded, not of scripture, but on tradition, and is distinctly a Catholic institution. As there is no scripture for the transfer of the day of rest from the last to the first day of the week, Protestants ought to keep their Sabbath on Saturday and thus leave Catholics in full possession of Sunday." Catholic Record, September 17, 1893.

And what did Jesus say about making void a commandment of God for man made traditions? He said your worship was worthless. Hmmm! Very interesting. [FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Now who is the real cult here?

[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Question - Which is the Sabbath day?[/FONT]
Answer - Saturday is the Sabbath day.
Question - Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?

Answer - We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 364), transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday. The Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50, 3rd ed.

Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday (Sabbath), but shall work on that Day: but the Lord's Day, they shall especially honour; and as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be shut out from Christ. Council of Laodicea (circa 364 AD)

"The Bible says, Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day. The Catholic church says, No! By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day, and command you to keep the first day of the week. And lo, the entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic church!" Father Enright, C.S.S.R. of the Redemptoral College, Kansas City, Mo., History of the Sabbath, p. 802

"Sunday is our mark of authority...The church is above the Bible, and this transference of sabbath observance is proof of that fact." The Catholic Record, London, Ontario, September 1, 1923.[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]
[/FONT]

Sophrosyne · Mar 17, 2014

maco said:
No biblical support for Sunday means no biblical support. The support for Sunday comes through the Beast and its image, not the Bible.
[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]
[/FONT]

No biblical support for saturday either. I think you will find you are the only one interested in this ludicrous sunday worship is the beast idea which has no biblical support without twisting scripture and is nothing but a deception to scare naive Christians into Sabbath keeping nonsense.

maco · Mar 17, 2014

Sophrosyne said:
No biblical support for saturday either. I think you will find you are the only one interested in this ludicrous sunday worship is the beast idea which has no biblical support without twisting scripture and is nothing but a deception to scare naive Christians into Sabbath keeping nonsense.

Tons of support for the seventh day being special to God, Jesus is even Lord of the Sabbath. Sunday is just a regular work day.

Do your research and learn who and what the Beast is and its image. They are very closely related and look very much alike.

Still no biblical support for Sunday because it comes through the Beast and its image, not the Bible.

"Sunday is founded, not of scripture, but on tradition, and is distinctly a Catholic institution. As there is no scripture for the transfer of the day of rest from the last to the first day of the week, Protestants ought to keep their Sabbath on Saturday and thus leave Catholics in full possession of Sunday." Catholic Record, September 17, 1893.

And what did Jesus say about making void a commandment of God for man made traditions? He said your worship was worthless. Hmmm! Very interesting. [FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Now who is the real cult here?

[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Question - Which is the Sabbath day?[/FONT]
Answer - Saturday is the Sabbath day.
Question - Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?

Answer - We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 364), transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday. The Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50, 3rd ed.

Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday (Sabbath), but shall work on that Day: but the Lord's Day, they shall especially honour; and as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be shut out from Christ. Council of Laodicea (circa 364 AD)

"The Bible says, Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day. The Catholic church says, No! By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day, and command you to keep the first day of the week. And lo, the entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic church!" Father Enright, C.S.S.R. of the Redemptoral College, Kansas City, Mo., History of the Sabbath, p. 802

"Sunday is our mark of authority...The church is above the Bible, and this transference of sabbath observance is proof of that fact." The Catholic Record, London, Ontario, September 1, 1923.[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]
[/FONT]

Sophrosyne · Mar 17, 2014

maco said:
Tons of support for the seventh day being special to God, Jesus is even Lord of the Sabbath. Sunday is just a regular work day.

Do your research and learn who and what the Beast is and its image. They are very closely related and look very much alike.
[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]
[/FONT]

No support at all for seventh day as far as Christians are concerned. All your excesss spam isn't going to fog over the fact you refuse to admit that you have to twist scripture to support the Sabbath upon Christians while using the "keeping" of Sunday as a smokescreen to sneak up on Christians that don't know their Bible well enough to realize that you have nothing but smoke and mirrors here. Mark of the Beast Sunday laws..... rubbish theology.

maco · Mar 18, 2014

Sophrosyne said:
No support at all for seventh day as far as Christians are concerned. All your excesss spam isn't going to fog over the fact you refuse to admit that you have to twist scripture to support the Sabbath upon Christians while using the "keeping" of Sunday as a smokescreen to sneak up on Christians that don't know their Bible well enough to realize that you have nothing but smoke and mirrors here. Mark of the Beast Sunday laws..... rubbish theology.

The term Christian is just a nick name, it's not a separate set of people who have a different gospel and a different standard other than what God has already given.[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]

Exodus 12:49 "One law shall be for the native-born and for the foreigner who dwells among you."
[/FONT]
Leviticus 24:22 "You shall have the same law for the stranger and for one from your own country; for I am the Lord your God.’”

You, has a Gentile, have the opportunity through Christ to become part of God's people.

Ephesians 2:11-13 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

You, as a Gentile, have the opportunity to be grafted in.

Romans 11:11-22 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness! For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

Jew and Gentile become one in Christ through the new birth but the same Law applies and is written on the heart.

Romans 2:26-29 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

The seventh day is to be special for Gentiles, as well as, for the Jews.

Isaiah 56:1-8 This is what the Lord says: "Be just and fair to all. Do what is right and good, for I am coming soon to rescue you and to display my righteousness among you. Blessed are all those who are careful to do this. Blessed are those who honor my Sabbath day of rest and keep themselves from doing wrong. "Don't let Gentiles who commit themselves to the Lord say, "The Lord will never let me be part of his people." And don't let the eunuchs say, "I'm a dried-up tree with no children and no future." For this is what the Lord says: I will bless those eunuchs who keep my Sabbath day holy and who choose to do what pleases me and commit their lives to me. I will give them within the walls of my house a memorial and a name far greater than sons and daughters could give. For the name I give them is an everlasting one. It will never disappear! "I will also bless the Gentile who commit themselves to the Lord, who serve him and love his name, who worship him and do not desecrate the Sabbath day of rest, and who hold fast to my covenant. I will bring them to my holy mountain of Jerusalem and will fill them with joy in my house of prayer. I will accept their burnt offerings and sacrifices, because my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations. For the Sovereign Lord, who brings back the outcasts of Israel, says: I will bring others, too, besides my people Israel."

from scratch · Mar 18, 2014

maco said:
The term Christian is just a nick name, it's not a separate set of people who have a different gospel and a different standard other than what God has already given.[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]

You can't support this claim with anything.

You refuse to accept the New Covenant which is different than the one issued at Sinai. You don't want to accept the free gift.

I'd love to get into the rest of the post and don't have time at the moment. Hope to find it later this evening. Lunch won't give me enough time.

maco · Mar 18, 2014

from scratch said:
You refuse to accept the New Covenant which is different than the one issued at Sinai. You don't want to accept the free gift.

Different yes, lawless no. You should be very thankful to God that the New Covenant is different because if it was the same Old Covenant you would be stoned to death for your blatant disregard for the Lord's Day. Thank God for the grace that is found in the New Covenant. But that grace is not for you to live outside of God's Law. The grace of God teaches you to live righteously and godly in this present evil age.

Sophrosyne · Mar 18, 2014

maco said:
The term Christian is just a nick name, it's not a separate set of people who have a different gospel and a different standard other than what God has already given.[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]
[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]I see we have no common ground to discuss anything if the term Christian is essentially meaningless to you
[/FONT]
and BTW I don't see scripture equating gentiles are grafted in by accepting Christ... you are twisting scriptures to deceive people in this effort IMO

Sophrosyne · Mar 18, 2014

maco said:
Different yes, lawless no. You should be very thankful to God that the New Covenant is different because if it was the same Old Covenant you would be stoned to death for your blatant disregard for the Lord's Day. Thank God for the grace that is found in the New Covenant. But that grace is not for you to live outside of God's Law. The grace of God teaches you to live righteously and godly in this present evil age.

No.... the Law is holy righteous and good, stoning must still be holy righteous and good therefore it still is applicable to the Law because God doesn't change and the Law hasn't changed. The only way around it all is to nullify the Law by changing the people it applies to such that they are no longer bound to it. You cannot partially bind someone to a contract without nullifying it and writing a new contract. You would make a lousy lawyer if you think this is what happened.

maco · Mar 18, 2014

Sophrosyne said:
No.... the Law is holy righteous and good, stoning must still be holy righteous and good therefore it still is applicable to the Law because God doesn't change and the Law hasn't changed. The only way around it all is to nullify the Law by changing the people it applies to such that they are no longer bound to it. You cannot partially bind someone to a contract without nullifying it and writing a new contract. You would make a lousy lawyer if you think this is what happened.

The death penalty is still applicable but Jesus took it for us.

SilverBlade · Mar 18, 2014

Sophrosyne said:
No.... the Law is holy righteous and good, stoning must still be holy righteous and good therefore it still is applicable to the Law because God doesn't change and the Law hasn't changed. The only way around it all is to nullify the Law by changing the people it applies to such that they are no longer bound to it. You cannot partially bind someone to a contract without nullifying it and writing a new contract. You would make a lousy lawyer if you think this is what happened.

Do you wash your hands during the Sabbath using running water?..if yes, then you, by your own law, should be stoned to death, as running water makes at minimum 2 people work that day..probably more.

Extreme? yes. but according to you...it should happen.

Sophrosyne · Mar 18, 2014

maco said:
The death penalty is still applicable but Jesus took it for us.

Do you have any idea what the word "fulfilled" means?
And the penalties associated with the Law ARE an integral part of it you cannot divorce them
from it and still properly keep the Law.

Sophrosyne · Mar 18, 2014

SilverBlade said:
Do you wash your hands during the Sabbath using running water?..if yes, then you, by your own law, should be stoned to death, as running water makes at minimum 2 people work that day..probably more.

Extreme? yes. but according to you...it should happen.

I don't keep the Sabbath.... I find it a meaningless gesture of mockery when Jesus fulfilled ALL the obligation the Law had upon EVERYONE on the cross.

BobRyan · Mar 18, 2014

Sophrosyne said:
I don't keep the Sabbath.... .

I don't think anyone here would doubt you on that point.

How glad we call can be that EVEN the following pro-Sunday sources admit to the basic Bible doctrine that God's TEN Commandments are still applicable to the saints to this very day.

There must be a twisting of Scripture to deceive God's people.

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