There MUST be a confessor

[Stryder06]

So I'm watching EWTN (The Spiritual Legacy of Archbishop Fulton Sheen) and a "Father" Charles Connor is speaking about why it is necessary for men to confess their sins to another man first, instead of God.

I'd like some confirmation as to whether what he is teaching is considered doctrine by Catholics.

First he said that for sins to be forgiven, man , must confess their sins to an ordained Catholic Priest, and not to Jesus directly. If this is correct, does that mean that my sins aren't being forgiven since I'm not confessing them to a priest first?

He also said that when a priest absolves ones sins, it is Christ absolving that sin. My question is how can you be certain? What if the person in confession isn't truly repentant? Since God alone can know the heart, does that mean that Christ is revealing to the priest, the state of the heart of the one confessing? If not, then how can a priest absolve the confessing party of anything?

Next he said that no sin is private, and that whenever someone sins their act mystically affects the church negatively some how. Thus some member of the body of the church ought to forgive the sin that has affected it.

Next he said that every confessor is "a judge, a doctor of the soul and a dispenser of the forgiveness of the Lord". Do all Catholics view confessors as such, or is this just his opinion?

He also stated that confessors are looked at as "the good shepherd". Is this true?

I myself don't believe confession is necessary. However, if it is necessary for the Catholic, wouldn't that mean it would be necessary for the non-catholic as well especially if frequent trips to confession would make me holier, as stated by Charles Connor?

 

[Dark_Lite]

So I'm watching EWTN (The Spiritual Legacy of Archbishop Fulton Sheen) and a "Father" Charles Connor is speaking about why it is necessary for men to confess their sins to another man first, instead of God.

Why the air quotes?

First he said that for sins to be forgiven, man , must confess their sins to an ordained Catholic Priest, and not to Jesus directly. If this is correct, does that mean that my sins aren't being forgiven since I'm not confessing them to a priest first?

The sacrament of confession is viewed as the normal means of conveying the grace of forgiveness. That doesn't mean it's the only way. And for all the whole host of reasons not relevant to this thread, you can be pretty sure that your sins are being forgiven.

He also said that when a priest absolves ones sins, it is Christ absolving that sin.

In persona Christi. This is correct.

My question is how can you be certain? What if the person in confession isn't truly repentant?

Then the Confession is ineffectual.

Since God alone can know the heart, does that mean that Christ is revealing to the priest, the state of the heart of the one confessing? If not, then how can a priest absolve the confessing party of anything?

Absolution requires the confessing party to be penitent. If the confessing party holds evil in their hearts and does not have a desire to turn away from sin, then it doesn't matter. The supernatural grace that may have been infused was instead rejected in favor of sin.

Next he said that no sin is private, and that whenever someone sins their act mystically affects the church negatively some how. Thus some member of the body of the church ought to forgive the sin that has affected it.

Never heard that in particular, but would you agree that a sin stains the image of Christ in the world and is thus a disservice to the body of Christ? If so, they you will probably agree with his assertion here.

Next he said that every confessor is "a judge, a doctor of the soul and a dispenser of the forgiveness of the Lord". Do all Catholics view confessors as such, or is this just his opinion?

Sounds a little more in the realm of opinion, but I would check into the Catechism to be sure. If there is anything this forum has proven, you need to absolutely check to make sure any claim about the Catholic Church is actually a claim of the Catholic Church--no matter its source. Maybe someone else will come in with a more authoritative answer.

He also stated that confessors are looked at as "the good shepherd". Is this true?

Same as above.

I myself don't believe confession is necessary. However, if it is necessary for the Catholic, wouldn't that mean it would be necessary for the non-catholic as well especially if frequent trips to confession would make me holier, as stated by Charles Connor?

This gets into a whole other topic about God's mercy and grace and how it is dispensed and what the Catholic Church teaches about Protestantism. Going down that path will drive this thread off the Cliff of Irrelevance and down into the Canyon of Disrespect. Well, at least it will make it occur sooner. I'm sure this thread will end up in that place anyway eventually.

The short answer is that God is bigger than the box of the visible Church when he needs to be. The sacrament of Confession is the norm, but it's not the only way.

 

[Eucharisted]

Sacrament of Confession: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...c_20000630_circolare-sulla-penitenza _en.html

 

[laconicstudent]

So I'm watching EWTN (The Spiritual Legacy of Archbishop Fulton Sheen) and a "Father"

What, do you have some reason to think he actually isn't an ordained priest?

 

[Mr Dave]

Sounds a little more in the realm of opinion, but I would check into the Catechism to be sure. If there is anything this forum has proven, you need to absolutely check to make sure any claim about the Catholic Church is actually a claim of the Catholic Church--no matter its source. Maybe someone else will come in with a more authoritative answer.


Same as above.

vis. Good Shepherd

Catechism section 1465

"When he celebrates the sacrament of Penance, the priest is fulfilling the ministry of the Good Shepherd who seeks the lost sheep, of the Good Samaritan who binds up his wounds, of the Father who awaits the prodigal son and welcomes him on his return, and of the just and impartial judge whose judgement is both just and merciful. The priest is the sign and the instrument of God's merciful love for the sinner"

That's the bit on the Good Shepherd though. Not looked as though the priest becomes Jesus but fulfills a role that can be seen in that light.


The doctor bit may be section 1421 "The Lord Jesus Christ, physician of our souls and bodies, who forgave the sins of the paralytic and restored him to bodily health, has willed that his Church continue, in the power of the Holy Spirit, his work of healing and salvation, even among her own members. This is the purpose of the two sacraments of healing: the sacrament of Penance and the Sacrament of Anointing the Sick."

but with Sections 1441 & 1442

"Only God forgives sins... by virtue of his divine authority he gives this power to men to exercise in his name... The apostle is sent out "on behalf of Christ" with "God making his appeal" through him and pleading: "Be reconciled to God" (cf. 2 Cor. 5:20).

Hope that helps.

 

[Dark_Lite]

vis. Good Shepherd

Catechism section 1465

"When he celebrates the sacrament of Penance, the priest is fulfilling the ministry of the Good Shepherd who seeks the lost sheep, of the Good Samaritan who binds up his wounds, of the Father who awaits the prodigal son and welcomes him on his return, and of the just and impartial judge whose judgement is both just and merciful. The priest is the sign and the instrument of God's merciful love for the sinner"

That's the bit on the Good Shepherd though. Not looked as though the priest becomes Jesus but fulfills a role that can be seen in that light.


The doctor bit may be section 1421 "The Lord Jesus Christ, physician of our souls and bodies, who forgave the sins of the paralytic and restored him to bodily health, has willed that his Church continue, in the power of the Holy Spirit, his work of healing and salvation, even among her own members. This is the purpose of the two sacraments of healing: the sacrament of Penance and the Sacrament of Anointing the Sick."

but with Sections 1441 & 1442

"Only God forgives sins... by virtue of his divine authority he gives this power to men to exercise in his name... The apostle is sent out "on behalf of Christ" with "God making his appeal" through him and pleading: "Be reconciled to God" (cf. 2 Cor. 5:20).

Hope that helps.

Well there you have it. I would have looked them up myself but it was like 12:30 in the morning. Those statements were just reinforcements of In Persona Christi again.

 

[Stryder06]

What, do you have some reason to think he actually isn't an ordained priest?

I don't agree with calling any man Father other then God, but I wanted to identify his position within your church, thus the quotes.

 

[Stryder06]

Haven't had the chance yet to read all the responses, but thanks in advance for the replys

 

[BrotherBob]

1 Timothy 2:5
"For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Jesus Christ."

 

[Kristos]

It seems like the EO might have a slightly different view on this. The priest must be present for pastoral reasons, and sacramental reason, but the confession is made to God.

 

[laconicstudent]

I don't agree with calling any man Father other then God, but I wanted to identify his position within your church, thus the quotes.

Has my faith icon changed to Roman Catholic without my noticing?

 

[Stryder06]

Why the air quotes?



The sacrament of confession is viewed as the normal means of conveying the grace of forgiveness. That doesn't mean it's the only way. And for all the whole host of reasons not relevant to this thread, you can be pretty sure that your sins are being forgiven.


In persona Christi. This is correct.



Then the Confession is ineffectual.



Absolution requires the confessing party to be penitent. If the confessing party holds evil in their hearts and does not have a desire to turn away from sin, then it doesn't matter. The supernatural grace that may have been infused was instead rejected in favor of sin.



Never heard that in particular, but would you agree that a sin stains the image of Christ in the world and is thus a disservice to the body of Christ? If so, they you will probably agree with his assertion here.



Sounds a little more in the realm of opinion, but I would check into the Catechism to be sure. If there is anything this forum has proven, you need to absolutely check to make sure any claim about the Catholic Church is actually a claim of the Catholic Church--no matter its source. Maybe someone else will come in with a more authoritative answer.



Same as above.



This gets into a whole other topic about God's mercy and grace and how it is dispensed and what the Catholic Church teaches about Protestantism. Going down that path will drive this thread off the Cliff of Irrelevance and down into the Canyon of Disrespect. Well, at least it will make it occur sooner. I'm sure this thread will end up in that place anyway eventually.

The short answer is that God is bigger than the box of the visible Church when he needs to be. The sacrament of Confession is the norm, but it's not the only way.

Thanks for your response. I guess to keep it short, my next question is why the confessor? What is the point of having someone say that I am forgiven when I can get that directly from Christ?

 

[Stryder06]

vis. Good Shepherd

Catechism section 1465

"When he celebrates the sacrament of Penance, the priest is fulfilling the ministry of the Good Shepherd who seeks the lost sheep, of the Good Samaritan who binds up his wounds, of the Father who awaits the prodigal son and welcomes him on his return, and of the just and impartial judge whose judgement is both just and merciful. The priest is the sign and the instrument of God's merciful love for the sinner"

That's the bit on the Good Shepherd though. Not looked as though the priest becomes Jesus but fulfills a role that can be seen in that light.


The doctor bit may be section 1421 "The Lord Jesus Christ, physician of our souls and bodies, who forgave the sins of the paralytic and restored him to bodily health, has willed that his Church continue, in the power of the Holy Spirit, his work of healing and salvation, even among her own members. This is the purpose of the two sacraments of healing: the sacrament of Penance and the Sacrament of Anointing the Sick."

but with Sections 1441 & 1442

"Only God forgives sins... by virtue of his divine authority he gives this power to men to exercise in his name... The apostle is sent out "on behalf of Christ" with "God making his appeal" through him and pleading: "Be reconciled to God" (cf. 2 Cor. 5:20).

Hope that helps.

Well there you have it. I would have looked them up myself but it was like 12:30 in the morning. Those statements were just reinforcements of In Persona Christi again.

Thanks for the explanation. Again however, I find myself seeing this role as unnecessary as it is possible to receive healing, and leading straight from Christ. Also, there isn't any biblical president for a person "fulfilling" the role of Christ. That being the case, is this strictly a traditional teaching of the RCC?

 

[spiritwarrior37]

Jesus is our confessor. We confess our sins to Jesus and He confesses them to the Father.

God bless

 

[Kristos]

Jesus is our confessor. We confess our sins to Jesus and He confesses them to the Father.

God bless

Which is the Church:

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

 

[Dark_Lite]

Thanks for the explanation. Again however, I find myself seeing this role as unnecessary as it is possible to receive healing, and leading straight from Christ. Also, there isn't any biblical president for a person "fulfilling" the role of Christ. That being the case, is this strictly a traditional teaching of the RCC?

You've probably seen the verses before, but:

19 On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 20 After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.

21 Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

This, combined with apostolic succession, is the foundation for the sacrament of Confession.

 

[tall73]

Next he said that no sin is private, and that whenever someone sins their act mystically affects the church negatively some how. Thus some member of the body of the church ought to forgive the sin that has affected it.

An OT example of this would be the sin of Achan which caused God to not support the children of Israel when attacking Ai.

Obviously known sin is a problem too. Paul talked about leaven spreading through the whole lump in I Cor 5, etc.

 

[Some Other Guy]

So I'm watching EWTN (The Spiritual Legacy of Archbishop Fulton Sheen) and a "Father" Charles Connor is speaking about why it is necessary for men to confess their sins to another man first, instead of God.

I'd like some confirmation as to whether what he is teaching is considered doctrine by Catholics.

First he said that for sins to be forgiven, man , must confess their sins to an ordained Catholic Priest, and not to Jesus directly. If this is correct, does that mean that my sins aren't being forgiven since I'm not confessing them to a priest first?

He also said that when a priest absolves ones sins, it is Christ absolving that sin. My question is how can you be certain? What if the person in confession isn't truly repentant? Since God alone can know the heart, does that mean that Christ is revealing to the priest, the state of the heart of the one confessing? If not, then how can a priest absolve the confessing party of anything?

Next he said that no sin is private, and that whenever someone sins their act mystically affects the church negatively some how. Thus some member of the body of the church ought to forgive the sin that has affected it.

Next he said that every confessor is "a judge, a doctor of the soul and a dispenser of the forgiveness of the Lord". Do all Catholics view confessors as such, or is this just his opinion?

He also stated that confessors are looked at as "the good shepherd". Is this true?

I myself don't believe confession is necessary. However, if it is necessary for the Catholic, wouldn't that mean it would be necessary for the non-catholic as well especially if frequent trips to confession would make me holier, as stated by Charles Connor?

I've seen some truly bizzare things on EWTN. On one show, they were actually teaching children to pray to Pope John Paul.

 

[spiritwarrior37]

Which is the Church:

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

And yet none of those are our confessors.
If we confess our sins to Jesus, He is faithful and just to forgive us. Nothing about a church, or any of those listed in the verses you quoted.

God bless

 

[Kristos]

And yet none of those are our confessors.
If we confess our sins to Jesus, He is faithful and just to forgive us. Nothing about a church, or any of those listed in the verses you quoted.

God bless

You completely missed the point.